KDE 4.1 Beta 2 Released

[phoronix]

Phoronix: KDE 4.1 Beta 2 Released

KDE 4.1.0 is due for release in July and in preparation of this first major update on the KDE4 code-base there was the release of KDE 4.1 Beta 1 last month. With about a month before the final release, the KDE community has today come together and released KDE 4.1 Beta 2...

http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=NjU0NA

[Vadi]

July? Ouch. Their HIG isn't even finished... what are they doing?

[sabriah]

July? Ouch. Their HIG isn't even finished... what are they doing?

Well, if there are no guidelines, they cannot disobey them, therewith giving them more freedom to finish up. ;)

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_interface_guidelines:

HIGs should be taken at face value; their recommendations and advice are meant to help developers create better applications, but developers are naturally free to break them if they think that the guidelines do not fit their application.


So, it is not the end of the world.

[Jade]

When do you think Debian will include KDE 4.0 in "Debian testing"?

Maybe when KDE 5.0 is released?

[Vadi]

Well, if there are no guidelines, they cannot disobey them, therewith giving them more freedom to finish up. ;)

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_interface_guidelines:


So, it is not the end of the world.

Okay, but I don't agree with Wikipedia this time, as that statement is more of the author's personal opinion than a standard.

HIG is a standard. Yes, you can break standards. But it's not okay to do that. And it's not good either.

[d2kx]

When do you think Debian will include KDE 4.0 in "Debian testing"?

Maybe when KDE 5.0 is released?

After the freeze (Debian Lenny release), it will get into Sid, and if it doesn't have bugs, it will go into Testing after 10 days.

[Jade]

Do you know when the freeze (Debian Lenny release) is?

Looks like I found it:

Release schedule
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Though the number of release critical bugs concerns us, we are pleased
by the overall state of lenny. Most big software packages have been
updated to the major version that will be shipped in lenny, so we will
be able to concentrate on polishing in the following months:

Early of June 2008
Freeze of the non-essential toolchain
The "non-essential toolchain" means things like debhelper, cdbs
and a big chunk of other things usually needed to produce binary
packages.

End of June 2008
Freeze of all library packages
This will affect all packages that produce library packages used
by other packaged software. Packages without r-deps won't be
frozen at this point.

Mid of July 2008
Full freeze
Please don't wait with uploads for the last day before the freeze,
thanks.

September 2008
Release lenny!

Please note that we haven't decided yet on the inclusion of KDE4.1 in lenny, but plan to do so in the near future.

How could they even consider not releasing KDE4 with lenny.

This is just more subtle Linux sabotage.

[oblivious_maximus]

Debian is sabotaging Linux? Bonkers.

They have decided not to include KDE4 in Lenny (http://ekaia.org/blog/2008/06/08/lets-go-for-kde-359-in-lenny/) though. The reason basically being KDE 4 in it's current state just isn't stable/mature enough to merit inclusion in a Debian stable release. The operative word there being stable.

However you're perfectly welcome to install the packages in experimental (http://ekaia.org/blog/2008/05/29/how-to-install-kde-4-beta1-from-experimental/)(obviously not recomended if you run Etch), currently they're based on an SVN version that's slightly older than beta2 (http://ekaia.org/blog/2008/06/22/update-on-kde-41-packages-for-debian/), and they likely won't be updated until at least another milestone release occurs upstream (RC1 by the sound of it, but it's not set in stone or anything, just that developer's estimate).

[d2kx]

How could they even consider not releasing KDE4 with lenny.

This is just more subtle Linux sabotage.

You make my day :D

Oh, and Debian should rename "stable" to "rockstable". Then people may understand Debian's decisions.

[Jade]

Debian is sabotaging Linux? Bonkers.
Not necessarily Debian,... but individuals in Debian.

It is obvious to anyone with eyes that KDE has always been unnecessarily been delayed.

Debian tries to force GNOME upon you. GNOME is the default.

It is much more difficult to install KDE than GNOME.

Debian consciously hinders KDE uptake.

I have found many packages (when they exist) that are sabotaged and have been for long periods of time.

For example, WINE and KVM.

Wine is usually NOT shipped with Debian. For example the weekly builds 11-12-06 and 21-02-07 of TESTING did not have any Wine packages although the 17-12-07 version now has it.

The same pathetic excuse was used every time. WINE is not stable enough to be in TESTING.

KVM was not in weekly builds 11-12-06 and 21-02-07 of TESTING.

The 17-12-07 version of TESTING had an extremely old version, namely 18. We are now at version 70. And for some reason that I forget, version 18 did NOT work properly.

They have decided not to include KDE4 in Lenny (http://ekaia.org/blog/2008/06/08/lets-go-for-kde-359-in-lenny/) though. The reason basically being KDE 4 in it's current state just isn't stable/mature enough to merit inclusion in a Debian stable release.
They decided not to include KDE 4,... no surprise there. That way they don't have to decide how to make KDE 4 hard to install.

[Kano]

There is of course a way to install KDE desktops with Debian - there are also KDE install iso images but I would just install my distro: KANOTIX - already optimized in serveral things, backports added where needed/useful and of course using KDE - currently 3.5.5, but that will change later.

[d2kx]

It is obvious to anyone with eyes that KDE has always been unnecessarily been delayed.

Debian tries to force GNOME upon you. GNOME is the default.

It is much more difficult to install KDE than GNOME.

Debian consciously hinders KDE uptake.

No/No/No/No. I'd say it is easier to install KDE than Gnome. There are KDE CD's for KDE, and there is CD1 out of dozens which contains Gnome (some people don't know that). KDE installs fine, Gnome needs to download many packages during installation. Gnome is always broken in the development version (Sid), KDE always works fine. Once there is a new KDE version, it will be uploaded to Sid as fast as possible (day 1 most of the time), Gnome always needs time.

The same pathetic excuse was used every time. WINE is not stable enough to be in TESTING.

You should read about the way Debian works. Testing is not a distribution to work with. Testing is automated, it gets the packages which are working on all architecturs and do not have open bugs on Sid. Sid is usable for advanced users. Wine is always the latest version in there.

They decided not to include KDE 4,... no surprise there.

You're right, it's no surprise. KDE 4.x still has some bugs and Lenny is already in a freeze state, and Debian/stable has to be really, really stable. No one knows how KDE 4.1 will perform when it's done, but Debian wants software that is tested for some time now.

[deanjo]

The biggest thing I'm looking forward to is getting KDE 4 to run fine in XP64. Sounds sick, I know, but it would make my windows sessions more bearable.

[borgus]

I applaud Debian for not including KDE4 in Lenny. Fedora's neglect of KDE was obvious, and now that they're trying to rectify it, it gives a new meaning to unstable (bleeding-edge distros should be the last to go KDE4-only). Even Mandriva's KDE4, while polished, seems somewhat iffy. Only openSUSE's KDE4 seems usable at all, and even there, KDE3 is much more usable on a day-to-day basis.

Unless one is using it for development purposes, KDE3 makes far more sense to run right now. It is much more user-friendly and less buggy. From what I have seen KDE 4.1 will be a good step forward on the usability and stability front, but I'm guessing it will be KDE 4.2 when it really comes into its own and is worth switching to from KDE3.

In terms of running KDE at all, Debian's KDE is among the most pleasant, and as easy as 'aptitude install kde' to get even if you don't use the KDE CD1 (I did the net-install).

[Jade]

I'd say it is easier to install KDE than Gnome.

That would be a sad indictment on the state of Debian since it is not that easy to install KDE.

First, very few people new to Debian, even find out there is a KDE CD.

One of the "accidental" acts of sabotage is to not include synaptic (a user friendly apt) on the KDE CD.

This means that any new user installing from the CD will give up (if they got this far) at the point of installing software not on the CD.

By the way the Debian installer has been flawed and buggy for years but Debian always insisted on releasing it with bugs.

Gnome is always broken in the development version

So what you are saying is that Gnome ships (in Sid (what about Lenny?)) with loads of bugs.

They decided not to include KDE 4,... no surprise there.
You're right, it's no surprise. KDE 4.x still has some bugs

So what you are saying is that KDE 4 will NOT ship (in Sid and Lenny) if it has a few bugs.

But remember,... there is supposedly no bias against KDE.

[oblivious_maximus]

That would be a sad indictment on the state of Debian since it is not that easy to install KDE.That is pure fiction, it IS that easy. Download ANY Debian install CD (even the CD1 with GNOME or Xfce) and (assuming network access during the install) you can enter "desktop=kde" at the first prompt that comes up when you boot the CD, and VOILA! KDE gets installed if you choose the Desktop role during the installation procedure. If you can't get network access during the installation, you use one of the alternate CD1's (there are 2, one with KDE, one with XFCE), or use a DVD which contains both KDE and GNOME (and probably XFCE too). With the DVD you must use the desktop=kde or desktop=xfce options, because GNOME is still the default (OH NOES!!!). Also, when you are presented with the prompt to enter that option(and/or others), there's help text on the screen explaining to press F1 (I think it's F1) for help docs which cover a slew of options, including the desktop= one. So even if one couldn't be bothered to look up debian-installer boot flags in the manual/howto, or to look for an alternate CD1, they can still learn about the options just by booting whatever CD they did download and burn. That said, those who can't even be bothered to read up on the installation procedure/options should probably consider running Ubuntu or something.

By the way the Debian installer has been flawed and buggy for years but Debian always insisted on releasing it with bugs.To install Debian testing, we recommend you use the lenny beta2 release of the installer, after checking its errata (http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/errata).I don't think I've ever used anything but testing releases of debian-installer, and I have never had any issues. Any bugs that may have been present have never affected my experience. They clearly suggest you read the errata before installing the testing branch, and I don't even need to look up Debian procedure to know that for stable releases (like Etch, and in September if things go well, Lenny), debian-installer will not be released with bugs (certainly not enough bugs to warrant a description like "flawed and buggy"). I tried to install RC1 of Ubuntu Hardy a while back. The install failed because grub wouldn't install to hda6, and on top of that glaring error, Ubiquity wouldn't let me put /home on a separate partition. All the times I've used testing releases of debian-installer, I have never had any issues installing grub somewhere other than hda1/sda1, nor any issues with mounting separate partitions for /home and /usr. debian-installer rocks, period.

Synaptic is not included in the default KDE install because it's a GTK application. With KDE you get Adept and Kpackage (not to mention aptitude itself). You're perfectly welcome to run "aptitude install synaptic" if you so choose. Just like you're perfectly welcome to install KDE4 RIGHT NOW out of experimental. If you did you wouldn't be complaining about KDE4 not being included in Lenny because - perish the thought - it's just not ready yet, and it wasn't ready in time for Lenny's release schedule.
there is no bias against KDE.There, fixed that for you. Maybe you should read up on how Debian works before you go making accusations about it being biased one way or the other. You're saying because Debian hasn't abandoned the procedures it's based on just so it can include KDE4 before it's really ready for prime-time, Debian's biased against KDE. As I said before, BONKERS.

Pretty much everything is SID has bugs. They also call it UNSTABLE eh. When those bugs have been wittled down to the point where a package meets the release criteria, and has lived in SID for 10 days in that state, it gets moved into testing. Every so often, testing becomes the next Debian stable (with ZERO bugs for every package being the criteria for stable IIRC). KDE4 simply doesn't currently meet the criteria for a Debian stable release.

[Jade]

The following makes it clear that Debian is LYING when it says that large numbers of bugs are keeping KDE4 out of the Lenny release at the end of the year.

Yes Debian is LYING.

KDE4 bugs according to Debian:

(0 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=kdebase-runtime-bin-kde4;dist=unstable
(0 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=kde4-minimal;dist=unstable
(0 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=decibel-kde4;dist=unstable
(1 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=kde4-development;dist=unstable
(2 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=python-kde4;dist=unstable
(1 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=python-kde4-dev;dist=unstable
(3 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=gtk-qt-engine-kde4;dist=unstable
(0 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=python-kde4-dbg;dist=unstable
(0 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=python-kde4-doc;dist=unstable

The following packages from KDE4 do not even have a bug report page of their own.
The following packages from KDE4 link to the bug report of version 3.5.9-1 in unstable
The bug report link on the KDE4 packages page redirects you to the bug report of version 3.5.9-1,....

So we assume that NO bugs have been found in the KDE4 version of the package.

http://packages.debian.org/experimental/kdeartwork (KDE4)
links to http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=kdeartwork;dist=unstable
http://packages.debian.org/experimental/kdeedu (KDE4)
links to http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=kdeedu;dist=unstable
http://packages.debian.org/experimental/kdegames (KDE4)
links to http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=kdegames;dist=unstable
http://packages.debian.org/experimental/kdeadmin (KDE4)
links to http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=kdeadmin;dist=unstable
http://packages.debian.org/experimental/kdegraphics (KDE4)
links to http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=kdegraphics;dist=unstable
http://packages.debian.org/experimental/kdemultimedia (KDE4)
links to http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=kdemultimedia;dist=unstable
http://packages.debian.org/experimental/kdenetwork (KDE4)
links to http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=kdenetwork;dist=unstable
http://packages.debian.org/experimental/kdepim (KDE4)
links to http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=kdepim;dist=unstable
http://packages.debian.org/experimental/kdeutils (KDE4)
links to http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=kdeutils;dist=unstable

So a total of SEVEN KDE4 bugs are known to (ie recorded by) Debian :

THESE 7 BUGS APPARENTLY KEEP KDE4 OUT OF LENNY.

KDE4 only exists in experimental. Hence the links to the experimental branch.

Gnome bugs according to Debian:

(21 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=gnome;dist=testing
(9 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=gnome-desktop-environment;dist=testing
(28 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=gnome-games;dist=testing
(5 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=gnome-office;dist=testing
(4 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=gnome-themes-extras;dist=testing
(4 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=gdm-themes;dist=testing

At this point we have 71 bugs from just these few gnome packages from Lenny (testing).

Testing will be released as Lenny later in the year.

These 71 bugs will NOT keep gnome from being released in Lenny.

How the 7 bugs reported by Debian in KDE4 will keep KDE4 out of lenny.

Gnome will be in Lenny because in just a few of its packages Debian reports 71 bugs.
KDE4 will NOT be in Lenny because in all of its packages Debian reports 7 bugs.

But remember,... there is (supposedly) no bias against KDE.

[Vadi]

What are you talking about?

There is no KDE 4 end-user version. Nada, it does not exist. No normal users are supposed to be using KDE 4.

KDE 3 is included, so where is the problem?

[d2kx]

What the hell are you doing there, Jade?

You're posting bugreports from some projects that do not belong to KDE and the bugreports of KDE 3.5.9 from Sid, not a single KDE4 bug report. Furthermore, you're posting only a few of the many Gnome packages and this time you are using the bug reports from testing instead of Sid? And on top of that, we are talking about upstream bugs, not packaging related bugs which most of the Debian bug reports are.

[Jade]

What the hell are you doing there, Jade?
I didn't notice that MANY packages from KDE4 do not even have a bug report page of their own.

The bug report link on the packages page redirects you to the bug report of version 3.5.9-1,....

So we assume that NO bugs have been found in the KDE4 version of the package.

The comment above makes it clear that Debian is LYING when it says that large numbers of bugs are keeping KDE4 out of the Lenny release at the end of the year.

"And on top of that, we are talking about upstream bugs, not packaging related bugs which most of the Debian bug reports are."

You mean that Debian doesn't even try to fix real bugs,... just packaging bugs,.... then there is absolutely no excuse from why Debian is so often soooooo out of date,.... except that they just want to be out of date,....

[Kano]

Did you notice that KDE4 is not in sid but in experimental? I don't think that too many users are trying it with Debian yet. The better/newer packages are for Kubuntu usually.

[d2kx]

I didn't notice that MANY packages from KDE4 do not even have a bug report page of their own.

If you don't how Debian works, don't comment. Debian/experimental is not a distribution and therefore does not allow bug reporting, because these packages are really for experienced testers only.

So we assume that NO bugs have been found in the KDE4 version of the package.

We assume that it is too early to install them and to report bugs. If a software is not finished yet, you have to report bugs to upstream, not to Debian.

The comment above makes it clear that Debian is LYING when it says that large numbers of bugs are keeping KDE4 out of the Lenny release at the end of the year.

No. Lenny is up to date. It is frozen now and uses the latest KDE version for desktop users: 3.5.9. Why didn't you upload the final KDE 4.1 packages some weeks ago, before the freeze began? They could have tested them for stability then. Oh wait - KDE 4.1 is still under development.

You mean that Debian doesn't even try to fix real bugs,... just packaging bugs,.... then there is absolutely no excuse from why Debian is so often soooooo out of date,.... except that they just want to be out of date,....

Debian fixes real bugs. If someone reports a bug related to KDE that is not related to the Debian packages, then the Debian package maintainer (Debian KDE-Team [or the DEBIAN KDE SABOTEURS if you wish]) forward that reported bug to the KDE bug tracking system. Oh, and Debian is not out of date. Name ten out of the 10000+ packages that are out of date, please:

http://packages.debian.org/sid/allpackages (do you find any? - and remember that the freeze already has begun)

[NeoBrain]

http://packages.debian.org/sid/allpackages (do you find any? - and remember that the freeze already has began)

Yeah, you're right I can't find any.
The page doesn't even load for me :D

[Jade]

We assume that it is too early to install them and to report bugs.

WRONG. Are you writing this just to give the appearance of,... no problems?

Why did you ignore all the pages that are already available for KDE4 bugs,... let me repeat them for you:

KDE4 bugs according to Debian:

(0 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=kdebase-runtime-bin-kde4;dist=unstable
(0 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=kde4-minimal;dist=unstable
(0 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=decibel-kde4;dist=unstable
(1 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=kde4-development;dist=unstable (KDE4 bug)
(2 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=python-kde4;dist=unstable (KDE4 bugs)
(1 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=python-kde4-dev;dist=unstable (KDE4 bug)
(3 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=gtk-qt-engine-kde4;dist=unstable (KDE4 bugs)
(0 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=python-kde4-dbg;dist=unstable
(0 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=python-kde4-doc;dist=unstable

There are actually 7 bugs. These are all the bugs that Debian knows about for KDE4.

So basically Debian can't even list the KDE4 bugs that they claim keep KDE4 from making it into Lenny.

You know,... that is not a good look,....

Not a good look at all.

If a software is not finished yet, you have to report bugs to upstream, not to Debian.

So on the 11th January 2008 when KDE 4.0 was released (as finished) by the KDE people, how many bad bugs were still too be fixed? How many bad bugs did the Debian people find that the KDE people didn't?

Zero,.... right?

[Vadi]

What are you talking about?

There is no KDE 4 end-user version. Nada, it does not exist. No normal users are supposed to be using KDE 4.

KDE 3 is included, so where is the problem?

Read above, and if you're the developer that KDE 4 is currently available to, you can surely compile it from scratch with ease.

[Jade]

So does anyone else think that Debian's actions regarding KDE4 look very very suspicious?

[borgus]

So does anyone else think that Debian's actions regarding KDE4 look very very suspicious?

Not at all. If anything, Fedora's actions are. Not even including KDE 3.5 as an option (in Fedora 9) when KDE4 isn't even close to ready for everyday use yet is about as sure a way possible to turn people off of KDE. With the possible exception of openSUSE, which puts a lot of work into making its KDE4 more polished than other distro's, no distribution has any business making KDE4 the default yet; KDE 3.5.9 is stable, usable, and polished in its default state and is in no danger of being obsoleted just because KDE4 is out.

From what it sounds like, KDE4 will appear in Sid (as an option doubtless, not the only KDE) a few days after Lenny is released, to eventually become part of whatever Lenny's successor is. And it's already in Experimental for those who really like to live on the edge. I see no problem at all.

[Jade]

I disagree. The fact that Red Hat/Fedora is worse does not change anything.

KDE4 does not have to obsolete KDE 3.5.9.

In the past two version of KDE have been offered and you can choose either. Although in the past eg KDE 3 would run all the KDE 2 apps so there was no demand for KDE2 to stick around.

Debian still has the QT2 libraries for older apps. Similarly, it now should have QT2, QT3 and QT4.

Debian is meant to be about setting up and packaging such arrangements.

So nothing you have said changes the fact that it appears that Debian can't even list the KDE4 bugs that they claim keep KDE4 from making it into Lenny.

[jensz]

My apologies for bumping an old thread, but some if these accusations are simply absurd.

The Default CD1 Desktop is based on package popularity and only aimed at newbies (only one app for every task). Full/stock GNOME is pulled by a different dummy package. No politics involved at all.

Shipping both KDE3 and KDE4 was never an option. Debian simply hasn't enough people to maintain/patch/secure this following all quality guidelines/rules that come with "stable".

KDE isn't just QT (and most QT4 run libs are already included).

KDE4.0 was incomplete. (resulting in missing dependencies when upgrading from Etch)
Not all architectures are already supported either.

KDE4.1 is still (even today) in "experimental".
Debian doesn't (and never did) accept bug reports against packages in experimental.

PS: If you really care about new (buggy) software, use testing/unstable or backports.
Stable is meant to be rock solid and can't afford such risks.

[RealNC]

The problem with Debian unstable is that it crashes every few hours while unstable branches/repositories of other distros are running just fine.

Debian unstable (and testing too!) are more or less bugged like hell.

[jensz]

The problem with Debian unstable is that it crashes every few hours while unstable branches/repositories of other distros are running just fine.

Debian unstable (and testing too!) are more or less bugged like hell.
You're absolutely clueless.
We don't even release updates every few hours (what you're saying is technically impossible).

Do other distros even have three branches?

Please add some actual facts and examples instead of blindly bashing something you obviously don't understand.
Sid only accepts packages that are "supposed" to be bug-free (upstream).
Testing gets them if they don't break the current snapshot.

PS: ...and if you do find a bug, please file a bug report.
Leeching is easy, try doing something constructive.

PS PS: For those using testing/unstable, every update that has a known bug (mostly upstream) comes with a warning.
Do read it and don't install it if you don't understand it.
It's really that easy.

[Vadi]

Ahah! It was caught on a screenshot: http://digg.com/linux_unix/KDE_4_1_Does_Not_Work

[stan]

Ahah! It was caught on a screenshot: http://digg.com/linux_unix/KDE_4_1_Does_Not_Work

Are you LinuxHater (http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/) by any chance? :) If not, you should send it to him cause he loves bashing on KDE for weeks on end.

[Vadi]

Sorry, no, and I don't listen to the unproductive rants of an idiot who's trying to make ad money either.

[deanjo]

Sorry, no, and I don't listen to the unproductive rants of an idiot who's trying to make ad money either.

Heh, although there is one post of his that hits the nail right on the head.

http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/2008/06/nitty-gritty-shit-on-open-source.html

[RealNC]

You're absolutely clueless.
And you can't read.

We don't even release updates every few hours (what you're saying is technically impossible).
It *CRASHES* every few hours. It does not *UPDATE* every few hours.

Do other distros even have three branches?
openSUSE and Gentoo are the ones I'm familiar with. openSUSE has the "HEAD" branch, and Gentoo has portage's ~arch (testing) and [M]arch (unstable/experimental).

Please add some actual facts and examples instead of blindly bashing something you obviously don't understand.
You should read before you reply.

PS: ...and if you do find a bug, please file a bug report.
Leeching is easy, try doing something constructive.
I'm not using Debian anymore.

Out of all distros I ever tried, the testing and unstable branches of Debian had the most bugs. Ubuntu (which is based on a testing branch of Debian) is actually very stable, for example. Same goes for Gentoo's testing packages.

[deanjo]

openSUSE and Gentoo are the ones I'm familiar with. openSUSE has the "HEAD" branch, and Gentoo has portage's ~arch (testing) and [M]arch (unstable/experimental).


openSUSE has Head, Factory, stable. For projects like KDE there is Factory, Stable and Unstable. Your right debian is not exclusive in that club.

[jensz]

openSUSE has Head, Factory, stable. For projects like KDE there is Factory, Stable and Unstable. Your right debian is not exclusive in that club.
Notice the question mark I used ;)
I don't use SUSE, so I'll just assume your correct on this.

That kiddie above claims his system crashed "every few hours" (some weird huge kernel oops?, KDE can't do that).
It's a very fare question to give just one tiny example.
If he can't do that (as he failed to do twice already) he's indeed absolutely clueless (brainless insults like "you can't read" don't change that and only make his claims even more stupid).

[RealNC]

That kiddie is older than you. And since you can't accept other's opinions you fall back to insulting them. You call me stupid and brainless while at the same time you claim that "you can't read" is an insult?

I am sorry I offended your almighty Debian. It was due to my errors that it was locking up my system every few hours, I'm sure of that. I probably moved the mouse, I shouldn't have done that.

[rbmorse]

I probably moved the mouse, I shouldn't have done that.

It's OK. That's how you learn.