Put the wish list for porting projects HERE...

[whizse]

Yea, either way is great, so when do you expect to have a definite annoucement? And, do you think you could see, since we're in the subject of older scummvm-able games, that other classics such as lure of the temptress could be released too? :D
Lure of the Temptress is supported by ScummVM, and released as freeware (it has been for a long time), I'm not sure of the exact terms of the license.

Revolution Software has apparently been extremly forthcoming when it comes to releasing their older games as freeware and cooperating with the ScummVM developers.

[Svartalf]

Yea, either way is great, so when do you expect to have a definite annoucement? And, do you think you could see, since we're in the subject of older scummvm-able games, that other classics such as lure of the temptress could be released too? :D

One can hope...all depends on the rights holders.

[Svartalf]

Lure of the Temptress is supported by ScummVM, and released as freeware (it has been for a long time), I'm not sure of the exact terms of the license.

Revolution Software has apparently been extremly forthcoming when it comes to releasing their older games as freeware and cooperating with the ScummVM developers.

Heh... Guess we need to see what SCUMMVM will do on the Pandora/Beagleboard here then... ;)

[whizse]

Cool, but does that mean that it cannot be sold, or that theres no sourcec code publicly available? It would seem to me that all the games supported by scummvm are in that situation then, like Beneath a Steel Sky.

Beneath a Steel Sky is in Debian main, so it's free software and can be sold. As for source code, since it's supported in ScummVM there's source code available. Not necessarily the original code, but I don't really see how that's important except maybe for historical interest.

If I remember correctly, Revolution Software had actually lost the original source code, so it had to be reverse engineered anyway. :)

Edit: Lure of the Temptress had to be reverse engineered, not BASS, sorry for the confusion.

[xav1r]

Beneath a Steel Sky is in Debian main, so it's free software and can be sold. As for source code, since it's supported in ScummVM there's source code available. Not necessarily the original code, but I don't really see how that's important except maybe for historical interest.

If I remember correctly, Revolution Software had actually lost the original source code, so it had to be reverse engineered anyway. :)

Edit: Lure of the Temptress had to be reverse engineered, not BASS, sorry for the confusion.

Damm, lost the source code to Lure of the Tempress? Can't people store their floppy discs is a filing desk or something?? So how did they reverse engineer it? Theres a few games that i'd like to help have them reverse engineered too :D

[xav1r]

awefully quiet here lately...

Was reading some of the phoronix old articles, and i found one about the shadowground games being ported to linux. Did that get to materialize?

[Svartalf]

awefully quiet here lately...

Was reading some of the phoronix old articles, and i found one about the shadowground games being ported to linux. Did that get to materialize?

According to the word on the 'net, it's still in progress. As for the quiet...it's because we've ran out of steam and need to see a few results from all this brainstorming. No biggie there- we've got a lot of great ideas and we should see the results of some of the whole thing shortly (Had to delay a few things because of a bit of urgent personal business but I should be wholly back on track here shortly...)

[deanjo]

Now that the Area 51 game is completely free, I wonder if it could be a candidate. Published by Midway IIRC.

http://www.askvg.com/download-area-51-game-full-version-absolutely-free/

[b15hop]

Hey Svartalf:
I noticed on your initial list under Looking into you have Alpha Centauri. This game is already ported to linux? I'm confused. :confused:

[Svartalf]

Hey Svartalf:
I noticed on your initial list under Looking into you have Alpha Centauri. This game is already ported to linux? I'm confused. :confused:

No longer supported- the support went the way of the dodo when Loki Games did the same. If you can FIND a copy, I would be surprised- buy it if you've not already done so (Heh...I have my copy back from when Loki was still a going concern... :p). Moreover, you may have issues with making it work with some of the modern distros. It's on the list to "revive" a Linux version as it's still one of those "viable" titles on the Windows side of things right at the moment (After the fashion GoG has gotten some of the "oldies but very goodies" back on the scene as a going concern.

Either Firaxis has the source and it's just a matter of cleaning it up for re-release against a modern compiler chain- or re-inventing the wheel because Loki didn't quite keep their word on that score when they went belly up.

[Svartalf]

Now that the Area 51 game is completely free, I wonder if it could be a candidate. Published by Midway IIRC.

http://www.askvg.com/download-area-51-game-full-version-absolutely-free/

It might be. I'll dig into it a bit further.

We might be onto something with the advert supported stuff, actually. There's actually a compelling reason as long as there's enough people providing the "eyeballs" to get them to sign off on a small interest helping them get the game there, under NDA, for Linux. So long as it doesn't turn into spyware, or it gets too obnoxious with the ads, I think this would be doable on both sides of the equation.

[RobbieAB]

No longer supported- the support went the way of the dodo when Loki Games did the same. If you can FIND a copy, I would be surprised- buy it if you've not already done so (Heh...I have my copy back from when Loki was still a going concern... :p). Moreover, you may have issues with making it work with some of the modern distros. It's on the list to "revive" a Linux version as it's still one of those "viable" titles on the Windows side of things right at the moment (After the fashion GoG has gotten some of the "oldies but very goodies" back on the scene as a going concern.

Either Firaxis has the source and it's just a matter of cleaning it up for re-release against a modern compiler chain- or re-inventing the wheel because Loki didn't quite keep their word on that score when they went belly up.

Plus if you can pick up the expansion, which is a pain to get for windows as it was never re-released...

[b15hop]

I have both SMAC and Crossfire. This was the version sold at tuxgames. :)

The game is so old now it's no wonder it isn't released as open source.

[RobbieAB]

I have both SMAC and Crossfire. This was the version sold at tuxgames. :)

The game is so old now it's no wonder it isn't released as open source.

The windows version is an ongoing concern (they still sell budget copies of SMAC). I'm not sure of the details for the Tuxgames version, but they have it marked as not being the original Loki port, is it some form of wine wrapped version?

[Svartalf]

The windows version is an ongoing concern (they still sell budget copies of SMAC). I'm not sure of the details for the Tuxgames version, but they have it marked as not being the original Loki port, is it some form of wine wrapped version?

From TuxGames:


Search for Alpha Centauri

Alpha Centauri

Category Strategy, God Game
By Loki Games
Price $30.00
Language English
Availability Temporarily Sold Out


It's the Loki version, and I don't think there's any more copies, save used ones, in hand, unless they get another supplier for them. To the best of my knowledge, the only Loki developed titles to have any publishing support past the implosion was Mindrover. Everything else pretty much dried up- allegedly the source code went back to the studios. The problem was that Loki had the rights situation so confused in the minds of the studios and publishers that they were unwilling to use the codebase to anything Loki published for fear of being sued over it's use- even though they had the full rights to it once the company Chapter 7'ed. There's a reason we don't have DeusEx right at the moment. ;)

[RobbieAB]

Read a bit further down the info page...

IMPORTANT NOTE:
The version we are shipping is the Windows version with a Linux installer CD, not the original Loki version

:D

[Svartalf]

Read a bit further down the info page...



:D

Heh... Didn't catch that... :p

That's bad. :D

I guess there's good reason then to try to talk w/Firaxis on whatever happened to the Loki version, etc. ;)

[b15hop]

I've always wanted to play with the caviar models in smac. It's impossible to find anything in regards to them though.. :/

[bakednoodle]

Hi, all I am new to the forums but have been using Phoronix forever now.
I just wanted to add my 2 cents. Dawn of War and its expansions will not be ported over to Linux. THQ refuses any kind of Linux support. I used to work at THQ as a QA tester, I worked on Juiced 2 Hot Import Nights as well as the Soulstorm expansion for Dawn of War so you might as well edit that maybe list for DoW and add it to dead end.

[niniendowarrior]

Hi, all I am new to the forums but have been using Phoronix forever now.
I just wanted to add my 2 cents. Dawn of War and its expansions will not be ported over to Linux. THQ refuses any kind of Linux support. I used to work at THQ as a QA tester, I worked on Juiced 2 Hot Import Nights as well as the Soulstorm expansion for Dawn of War so you might as well edit that maybe list for DoW and add it to dead end.

Maybe Svartalf missed it, but I'm pretty sure some time ago someone mentioned DoW. But yeah, that's not going anywhere anytime soon.

[Svartalf]

Hi, all I am new to the forums but have been using Phoronix forever now.
I just wanted to add my 2 cents. Dawn of War and its expansions will not be ported over to Linux. THQ refuses any kind of Linux support. I used to work at THQ as a QA tester, I worked on Juiced 2 Hot Import Nights as well as the Soulstorm expansion for Dawn of War so you might as well edit that maybe list for DoW and add it to dead end.

Shame for THQ. That places them in the overtly hostile grouping of publishers- which actually will color at least my purchases on the console side of things.

Moving DoW over to the dead-end list. Thanks for the tidbit of publisher knowlege. I'll dig through the list and kill any THQ entries in the maybe and looking into piles shortly.

[Svartalf]

Maybe Svartalf missed it, but I'm pretty sure some time ago someone mentioned DoW. But yeah, that's not going anywhere anytime soon.

It was supposed at the time to be a "maybe", but based on this information, unless we get newer contrary info from the publisher themselves, it gets moved to the dead end pile.

[niniendowarrior]

Speaking of hostile companies, I saw that Max Payne was pushed to the dead ends because of Remedy. While I have no doubt that a Linux port is pretty much a dead end, I remember Remedy touting at some point that Max Payne would work on Linux through Cedega and that they were happy about it. So, I'd say, perhaps Remedy isn't absolutely hostile, knowing that they at least acknowledge Linux presence.

EDIT: I can't seem to find it, but I remember reading something like that years ago.

[xav1r]

Speaking of hostile companies, I saw that Max Payne was pushed to the dead ends because of Remedy. While I have no doubt that a Linux port is pretty much a dead end, I remember Remedy touting at some point that Max Payne would work on Linux through Cedega and that they were happy about it. So, I'd say, perhaps Remedy isn't absolutely hostile, knowing that they at least acknowledge Linux presence.

EDIT: I can't seem to find it, but I remember reading something like that years ago.

well, in the case of max payne, the game rights dont even belong to remedy, anymore, it's rockstar's (and therefore take2's) territory now.

[bakednoodle]

If need be I can get you guys in contact with the Head PC Specialist at THQ and you guys can direct questions at him.

[xav1r]

...speaking of possible game leads, and sorry if this is derailing the topic, but, could someone please explain to me the fields in results of a US Patent and trademark office search? As some of you know, i was interested in tracking down the owner of the old games witchaven 1 and 2, and doing a trademark search in the USPTO site, didnt produce any results. I put in common popular brand names like "wolfenstein" for example, and found several entries. What i dont understand is the last field that says either LIVE or DEAD. There were many results of the query for Wolfenstein, most of them showing their status as LIVE. However, there were a few that listed as DEAD. The obvious one was the claim from the developers of the original Castle Wolfenstein game from the 80s, but there was an entry about Wolfenstein Enemy Territory, which was also listed as DEAD. What do those values mean? And, would that be helpful in finding out game rights' owners?

thanks

[niniendowarrior]

If need be I can get you guys in contact with the Head PC Specialist at THQ and you guys can direct questions at him.

It's certainly a great opportunity though I'd expect him to simply shrug his shoulders. I'd leave questions to Svartalf. He'd know what to ask.

[niniendowarrior]

well, in the case of max payne, the game rights dont even belong to remedy, anymore, it's rockstar's (and therefore take2's) territory now.

That is a very good point. Yeah... dead end.

[Svartalf]

If need be I can get you guys in contact with the Head PC Specialist at THQ and you guys can direct questions at him.

Could you PM me that contact info, please. While we're not ready (yet) to be starting discussions of any kind (and see if they've softened their position (we can only hope...)) with THQ, I would still like the foot in the door link there in hand. I feel like we might be in a rosier position in about 6 months here, maybe less if the Pandora succeeds as well as it has so far (Which remains to be seen. The hardware's largely there- the games will be telling. :D)

[Svartalf]

That is a very good point. Yeah... dead end.

Which is why it's on the dead-end list... :p :D

[Svartalf]

...speaking of possible game leads, and sorry if this is derailing the topic, but, could someone please explain to me the fields in results of a US Patent and trademark office search? As some of you know, i was interested in tracking down the owner of the old games witchaven 1 and 2, and doing a trademark search in the USPTO site, didnt produce any results. I put in common popular brand names like "wolfenstein" for example, and found several entries. What i dont understand is the last field that says either LIVE or DEAD. There were many results of the query for Wolfenstein, most of them showing their status as LIVE. However, there were a few that listed as DEAD. The obvious one was the claim from the developers of the original Castle Wolfenstein game from the 80s, but there was an entry about Wolfenstein Enemy Territory, which was also listed as DEAD. What do those values mean? And, would that be helpful in finding out game rights' owners?

thanks

Live on a Trademark search would mean that it's been actively maintained (as in the fees for continuing to maintain it as a Trademark that have to be paid regularly...) and can be defended as a Trademark in Civil courts. Dead means it was filed for and then allowed to die. You're certainly free to use the word/name/trade dress that was registered and allowed to die, but you can't Trademark it at that point... :D

If the rights holder is no longer pursuing the game, they aren't likely to pursue trademarks on it unless they're flush with cash and intend on using the trademark elsewhere. Where you want to be looking is whom has the current registration of the rights and whom might have bought/recieved them in the Bankruptcy proceedings for hints on where to go next on that search. This means you'll need to find which bankruptcy court presided over their filing, whether or not the case filings were sealed, and check into rights registration in the Library of Congress.

[xav1r]

Live on a Trademark search would mean that it's been actively maintained (as in the fees for continuing to maintain it as a Trademark that have to be paid regularly...) and can be defended as a Trademark in Civil courts. Dead means it was filed for and then allowed to die. You're certainly free to use the word/name/trade dress that was registered and allowed to die, but you can't Trademark it at that point... :D

If the rights holder is no longer pursuing the game, they aren't likely to pursue trademarks on it unless they're flush with cash and intend on using the trademark elsewhere. Where you want to be looking is whom has the current registration of the rights and whom might have bought/recieved them in the Bankruptcy proceedings for hints on where to go next on that search. This means you'll need to find which bankruptcy court presided over their filing, whether or not the case filings were sealed, and check into rights registration in the Library of Congress.


Thanks for the info! Well, in this case, the rights holder is no longer around, it desintegrated, :D . Hmm, how would i go about searching for which bankruptcy court presided over their filing? Is there some sort of online database of bankrupcty presiding courts for each bankrupcty filing a company files for? Judging solely by the geographic location of the former owner in this case, Florida, probably the court was one in that state, but i dont know if companies can file for bankrucptcy in other states. Hmm, in which section of the library of congress should i be looking into? I already looked at the copyright.gov branch, and it still lists intracorp as the owners of the rights. :rolleyes:

EDIT: I found what seems to be a database of all bankruptcy presiding courts in the usa. http://www.bankruptcydata.com. I also found something called the PACER database, (http://pacer.psc.uscourts.gov/pacerdesc.html) which is some sort of paid service that lets the public browse "case and docket information from Federal Appellate, District and Bankruptcy courts, and the U.S. Party/Case Index via the Internet" (from the PACER site). I selected the southern Florida court since it meets in miami, which is where this company used to be located at. The service asks for a 0.08$ fee per search. I wonder if a search in those records would turn up anything useful. :confused:

[xav1r]

...just got this idea from a topic in the ut3 on linux thread. What about Sin Episode 1? :p The rights to that game now belong to MumboJumbo, a casual games company. They're not in a high-stakes area of the industry, so they probably arent hostile towards linux. Svartalf, what do you think?

[Moustacha]

...just got this idea from a topic in the ut3 on linux thread. What about Sin Episode 1? :p The rights to that game now belong to MumboJumbo, a casual games company. They're not in a high-stakes area of the industry, so they probably arent hostile towards linux. Svartalf, what do you think?

I don't think that could work for technical reasons *yet*. My understanding is SiN is based on the Source engine, which doesn't run on Linux...yet.

[deanjo]

...just got this idea from a topic in the ut3 on linux thread. What about Sin Episode 1? :p The rights to that game now belong to MumboJumbo, a casual games company. They're not in a high-stakes area of the industry, so they probably arent hostile towards linux. Svartalf, what do you think?

There already is a linux version of SiN IIRC.

[SlackerTD]

There already is a linux version of SiN IIRC.Indeed there is... I have a copy sitting on my desk. :)

[Moustacha]

SiN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SiN)
SiN Episodes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SiN_Episodes)
xav1r is referring to the latter

[Svartalf]

There already is a linux version of SiN IIRC.

That'd be SiN Episodes, Episode 1- which was something that made critical acclaim, but didn't make enough money for Ritual to stay in business as anything other than staffing for MumboJumbo, the spinoff from Ritual ages ago.

[Svartalf]

...just got this idea from a topic in the ut3 on linux thread. What about Sin Episode 1? :p The rights to that game now belong to MumboJumbo, a casual games company. They're not in a high-stakes area of the industry, so they probably arent hostile towards linux. Svartalf, what do you think?

That'd require a port of the Source engine in hand. Valve apparently is working towards that to accommodate RWS for the next Postal installment- as Vince Desi keeps indicating that there will be versions of Postal 3 for Mac and Linux as well as Windows. ;)

Without Source on Linux, you're not going very far. :D

[Svartalf]

EDIT: I found what seems to be a database of all bankruptcy presiding courts in the usa. http://www.bankruptcydata.com. I also found something called the PACER database, (http://pacer.psc.uscourts.gov/pacerdesc.html) which is some sort of paid service that lets the public browse "case and docket information from Federal Appellate, District and Bankruptcy courts, and the U.S. Party/Case Index via the Internet" (from the PACER site). I selected the southern Florida court since it meets in miami, which is where this company used to be located at. The service asks for a 0.08$ fee per search. I wonder if a search in those records would turn up anything useful. :confused:

The $0.08/pg fee only applies if you rack up in excess of $10 per calendar year. If you don't do that, they can't really bill you for it.

As for the search... You'll have to ask whether it's worth $10 or so to you to find out where the rights went on those old crufty titles, if only to liberate them finally... ;)

[xav1r]

That'd require a port of the Source engine in hand. Valve apparently is working towards that to accommodate RWS for the next Postal installment- as Vince Desi keeps indicating that there will be versions of Postal 3 for Mac and Linux as well as Windows. ;)

Without Source on Linux, you're not going very far. :D

But as everyone knows, theres a version of the Orange Box for the ps3, and that requires opengl, doesnt it? And of course, Postal 3 will run on linux, so its more than likely possible in my opinion. :)

[xav1r]

The $0.08/pg fee only applies if you rack up in excess of $10 per calendar year. If you don't do that, they can't really bill you for it.

As for the search... You'll have to ask whether it's worth $10 or so to you to find out where the rights went on those old crufty titles, if only to liberate them finally... ;)

So how does that work? Can i register for free and look, and make sure i dont go over 10$? Or do i have to pay upfront 10$ whether i rack up that amount or not? Cause all im seeing after clicking on registering is a form to fill my credit card info. Those greedy bastards. :mad:

[Svartalf]

But as everyone knows, theres a version of the Orange Box for the ps3, and that requires opengl, doesnt it? And of course, Postal 3 will run on linux, so its more than likely possible in my opinion. :)

Heh... Yeah... The thing is... Is MumboJumbo interested in mining that space with allowing a Linux version of Ep 1? I'd say that they'd only really be interested in that if they revisit SiN Episodes. I'm not holding that it's impossible there, but a Linux version would have to hinge on Episode 1 still being more than a Steam item and reviving the franchise. They're unlikely to be interested in a smidge of people compared to the crowd (~150,000) that bought the Windows version. So far, the best we've ever seen in sales is 2k. The ~150k was enough to break even, but not enough to sustain the company forward to the next episode- sobering thoughts, no?

When someone say any number of users is "more money", I only need to point to this to show that this is more often than not opposite thinking for all but the smallest of studios or ones that are forward thinking enough to allow it to happen at reasonable prices.

[Svartalf]

So how does that work? Can i register for free and look, and make sure i dont go over 10$? Or do i have to pay upfront 10$ whether i rack up that amount or not? Cause all im seeing after clicking on registering is a form to fill my credit card info. Those greedy bastards. :mad:

No, you have an account w/them upon registering for your usage. They only invoice you and your card upon hitting the threshold in a calendar year's time. If you don't go over $10, they don't bill- or at least that is what the Supreme Court handed down a while back.

They charge because it uses court resources. They charge a pittance because it's a minimal usage. The SCOTUS deemed anything less than $10 worth of usages to be something that was in keeping with the public interest- so there should be no billing thereof if you don't exceed it.

[deanjo]

But as everyone knows, theres a version of the Orange Box for the ps3, and that requires opengl, doesnt it? And of course, Postal 3 will run on linux, so its more than likely possible in my opinion. :)

*sigh* Why does everybody have this fantasy that the PS3 utilizes openGL for it's games? Yes, it does have openGL support, but a vast majority of the more demanding PS3 games out there use libgcm .

[xav1r]

No, you have an account w/them upon registering for your usage. They only invoice you and your card upon hitting the threshold in a calendar year's time. If you don't go over $10, they don't bill- or at least that is what the Supreme Court handed down a while back.

They charge because it uses court resources. They charge a pittance because it's a minimal usage. The SCOTUS deemed anything less than $10 worth of usages to be something that was in keeping with the public interest- so there should be no billing thereof if you don't exceed it.


ah ok, ill use their service then. Ill report back any info i get. :)

[Chris]

What about the older Turok games? eg. Turok 1, 2, and 3? They were done by Acclaim/Iguana for the N64, and the first two at least had Windows ports. They're a bit older/dated, but I remember them being quite fun.

[jonwil]

I am involved in an effort to get access to code to a game (cant say which one or which dev/publisher) and basically they said "we cant give you code because we need to go through it line by line looking for 3rd party code in there". So something for people to consider is that often its not possible for a game company to allow a port because they dont have the rights to everything (or even know what 3rd party rights are in there)

[Svartalf]

I am involved in an effort to get access to code to a game (cant say which one or which dev/publisher) and basically they said "we cant give you code because we need to go through it line by line looking for 3rd party code in there". So something for people to consider is that often its not possible for a game company to allow a port because they dont have the rights to everything (or even know what 3rd party rights are in there)

Heh... I've considered it- deal with it all the time. It's a consideration that I've not mentioned much of because there's often ways around the issue in question. You've got to know how to approach it.

One of them is to have them come up with an NDA with appropriate provisions to be on the hook for not disclosing the 3rd party code. If they're serious otherwise about giving access to the source for the title, this would do the trick. From there it's only a matter of haggling over line-items that might be problematic for you on the NDA. If the code's compilable or can be made so and you're not FOSS-ing the title, this should be enough to gain access in most cases. If you're liberating the title (whatever form that might take...) you might have a tougher road to hoe and depending on the 3rd party code, you may have your work cut out for you as you'd have to be able to replace, or nearly so, the offending code. If it's the physics models, you might have issues... ;)

[xav1r]

No, you have an account w/them upon registering for your usage. They only invoice you and your card upon hitting the threshold in a calendar year's time. If you don't go over $10, they don't bill- or at least that is what the Supreme Court handed down a while back.

They charge because it uses court resources. They charge a pittance because it's a minimal usage. The SCOTUS deemed anything less than $10 worth of usages to be something that was in keeping with the public interest- so there should be no billing thereof if you don't exceed it.

Damn, this is gonna take longer than i thought. Upon registration, they say that they will send you the login/password information to you 1 week after registering, and throu regular post mail.:confused::confused::confused::rolleyes::roll eyes: Im not disclosing my address info to them, why cant they just send it thru email???

[RobbieAB]

So they can bill non-US citizens/residents before they break the $10 mark?

[xav1r]

So they can bill non-US citizens/residents before they break the $10 mark?

Yea, I guess thats it. :D So, would any US citizen/resident here register please? I'd appreciate it a lot, thanks. :)

[Svartalf]

Damn, this is gonna take longer than i thought. Upon registration, they say that they will send you the login/password information to you 1 week after registering, and throu regular post mail.:confused::confused::confused::rolleyes::roll eyes: Im not disclosing my address info to them, why cant they just send it thru email???

Courts are...marginally...into the 21st Century... :D

If you're serious about this, it's worth waiting a bit. ;)

[trepo]

Yea, I guess thats it. :D So, would any US citizen/resident here register please? I'd appreciate it a lot, thanks. :)

Maybe someone over at Groklaw could help...

[Svartalf]

Maybe someone over at Groklaw could help...

Okay, okay, okay... I get the hint... :D Lemme get a few things off of my plate here and I'll do a bit more checking off of Pacer. I suspect that the key pieces of info shouldn't run past the $10.

Truth's be known, while I'm okay with trying to chase down a rights holder for this to liberate those titles as best as I can, the end result of what I'm working at doing is a bit of a bigger deal.

[RobbieAB]

*cough* If you make it work, wouldn't it be about as big a prize for Linux gaming as we can reasonably hope for in the current climate?

[xav1r]

*cough* If you make it work, wouldn't it be about as big a prize for Linux gaming as we can reasonably hope for in the current climate?

I agree with that. :)

[Svartalf]

*cough* If you make it work, wouldn't it be about as big a prize for Linux gaming as we can reasonably hope for in the current climate?

Uh... Isn't working on the leads we have (nudge, nudge, wink, wink...) a bigger deal than this?

Seriously. Scoring Witchaven as a big prize? It might have a retro appeal, but it met with mediocre reviews overall.

[RobbieAB]

Er, I was referring to the, um, nudge nudge wink wink lead with my comment about it being as big a prize as we can hope to score...

Yeah, Witchaven might be cool, but it just lacks a certain... follow up potential...

[Svartalf]

Er, I was referring to the, um, nudge nudge wink wink lead with my comment about it being as big a prize as we can hope to score...

Yeah, Witchaven might be cool, but it just lacks a certain... follow up potential...

Ah... I misread the remark... My bad. It's late and plans didn't work like I'd hoped. Tomorrow's going to be busy and unfruitful for some of the plans for this week as well. I suppose Wednesday'll be a more likely candidate. :D

[clint999]

No idea if this would be a possible candidate:

Alien vs Predator 2

The game does have an (now ancient) OSX port, so the openGL part should be possible and the publisher (at that time) is/was not hostile to non MS operating systems. Sierra Entertainment / Fox Interactive as publisher is basically nonexistant nowaddys, but Vivendi/Activision should have the rights now. No idea how open they are regarding linux...

I really loved the game for it's great atmosphere. One of the by far better singleplayer shooter out there and I would really like to be able to play it natively under Linux. Since from the first game there was an (at least beta) linux port, maybe this could be a possible candidate.

No idea if it does qualify, but it would be really great!

[xav1r]

No idea if this would be a possible candidate:

Alien vs Predator 2

The game does have an (now ancient) OSX port, so the openGL part should be possible and the publisher (at that time) is/was not hostile to non MS operating systems. Sierra Entertainment / Fox Interactive as publisher is basically nonexistant nowaddys, but Vivendi/Activision should have the rights now. No idea how open they are regarding linux...

I really loved the game for it's great atmosphere. One of the by far better singleplayer shooter out there and I would really like to be able to play it natively under Linux. Since from the first game there was an (at least beta) linux port, maybe this could be a possible candidate.

No idea if it does qualify, but it would be really great!

I dont know if the rights to that game was one in the bunch of games sold off as a result from the Activision/Blizzard acquisition. If it was, probably it's new owner might not be that hostile.

[xav1r]

Witchaven had some cool features borrowed from the RPG genre like potions, weapons that break, leveling up, etc. Yeah, the execution of the game was less than ideal, but there could be room for improvement. :) Besides, its medieval like theme might appeal to the RPG crowd. :D

[Svartalf]

Witchaven had some cool features borrowed from the RPG genre like potions, weapons that break, leveling up, etc. Yeah, the execution of the game was less than ideal, but there could be room for improvement. :) Besides, its medieval like theme might appeal to the RPG crowd. :D

Heh... There's a reason I'm going to actually DO something along the lines of chasing down the rights holders. It's just not as much of a priority as getting something that'll gain us vastly more traction in the games space than a liberated Witchaven 1 & 2 would. I'm interested in bringing it back to life with perhaps a bit of a remix to pull out a better execution on the whole thing than Capstone managed. But it's waaay down on the totem pole than some of the things I allude to here (Like making things go on the Pandora...or the project RobbieAB and I have been muttering about... ;)).

[Svartalf]

I dont know if the rights to that game was one in the bunch of games sold off as a result from the Activision/Blizzard acquisition. If it was, probably it's new owner might not be that hostile.

I'd have to concur. If it didn't change hands, we're still dealing with a Activision/VU hybrid here. Vivendi still owns it, but the Activision people are calling the day-to-day shots. VU nixed some Linux things, so keep that in mind.

[xav1r]

Heh... There's a reason I'm going to actually DO something along the lines of chasing down the rights holders. It's just not as much of a priority as getting something that'll gain us vastly more traction in the games space than a liberated Witchaven 1 & 2 would. I'm interested in bringing it back to life with perhaps a bit of a remix to pull out a better execution on the whole thing than Capstone managed. But it's waaay down on the totem pole than some of the things I allude to here (Like making things go on the Pandora...or the project RobbieAB and I have been muttering about... ;)).

Oh yea sure, that project of yours seems more interesting, actually. Hows the pandora thing coming along btw?

[Svartalf]

Oh yea sure, that project of yours seems more interesting, actually. Hows the pandora thing coming along btw?

There's some more firmware work needing to be tweaked up to par (Not quite there yet in some places...) and Imagination Technologies needs to produce the final cut of the ES 1.1/2.0 drivers to TI (and thereby the Pandora and Beagleboard projects...) sometime in November that doesn't even come close to breaching the GPL license grant on the kernel.

It'll ship with or without the 3D support unless a 1-2 week delay would get the firmware there on that part. They're thinking middle to late November right now, but that might change slightly upon any production snags or the 3D honestly being close but not there on that timeframe. Keep in mind, while I'm on the firmware dev crew, I DO NOT speak on behalf of CraigX, MWeston, or EvilDragon on release dates. If you want actual official dates, you need to go to the OpenPandora project webpage.

[me262]

Uh... Isn't working on the leads we have (nudge, nudge, wink, wink...) a bigger deal than this?
You know, maybe I should ask some of those companies/games I listed now that you mention it...

[xav1r]

You know, maybe I should ask some of those companies/games I listed now that you mention it...

Yea, any effort is welcomed! :)

Svartalf, the witchaven prospect gave me another idea. Since we're on the subject of lesser known build games, what about looking into who owns the rights to Powerslave, another build engine? I tried asking the former publisher of that game, Playmates Interactive Entertaintment, and they didnt know anything about the game. I tried to track down the lead programmer of the developer, Erza Dreisbach, and AFAIK, he last worked at snowblind studios, but i couldnt find any contact info there. Also, what about the techincal aspect of the games? I mean, for example, i read that lobotomy software, the makers of powerslave, developed the Duke Nukem port for the Sega Saturn, by using their own in-house engine. DO you think that technology is still around somewhere? And if it is, who do you think might own it now?

[Svartalf]

I tried asking the former publisher of that game, Playmates Interactive Entertaintment, and they didnt know anything about the game.

Not surprising. PIE just published the DOS version, if I'm not mistaken. And with it being that long ago, most of the people there would probably not remember it or Lobotomy.


I tried to track down the lead programmer of the developer, Erza Dreisbach, and AFAIK, he last worked at snowblind studios, but i couldnt find any contact info there.


I'll do my own dredging there. Don't think it'll be much of a prospect though- I've a feeling that the purchaser of Lobotomy kept the rights to the engine.


DO you think that technology is still around somewhere? And if it is, who do you think might own it now?

Crave bought Lobotomy, renaming them as Lobotomy Studios. When the casino game that Crave set them to was canceled, the company was shuttered, the staff shifted around as much as was possible at the time, and anyone not moved was let go.

As a tidbit note...the Death Tank game they'd come out with has a X-Box 360 remake in progress that's being published by...Snowblind Studios... :D

[xav1r]

Not surprising. PIE just published the DOS version, if I'm not mistaken. And with it being that long ago, most of the people there would probably not remember it or Lobotomy.



I'll do my own dredging there. Don't think it'll be much of a prospect though- I've a feeling that the purchaser of Lobotomy kept the rights to the engine.



Crave bought Lobotomy, renaming them as Lobotomy Studios. When the casino game that Crave set them to was canceled, the company was shuttered, the staff shifted around as much as was possible at the time, and anyone not moved was let go.

As a tidbit note...the Death Tank game they'd come out with has a X-Box 360 remake in progress that's being published by...Snowblind Studios... :D

Wow, hehehe, interesting turn of events. :D So would you say that Crave now owns the rights to Powerslave and Lobotomy's Sega Saturn engine? Ill look into that as well.

[Svartalf]

Wow, hehehe, interesting turn of events. :D So would you say that Crave now owns the rights to Powerslave and Lobotomy's Sega Saturn engine? Ill look into that as well.

I'd say they might have the rights to publish Powerslave (Lobotomy was scheduled to do a Powerslave 2 right after the Caesar's Palace derived title that broke them up- had some concept art, etc. associated with it, even...) and perhaps have the codebase for the Saturn based engine lying around somewhere. Keep in mind, while they did amazing things with that engine, the stuff may/may not be in a usable form for porting. Traditionally console stuff's a vicious mix of C or C++ and hand-tuned assembly code for the target platform, oftentimes without a lot of good comments to explain themselves or notes outside of the code.

[niniendowarrior]

I was digging up some other possible prospects and came across this one. Possible candidate, Svartalf?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FATE_(computer_game)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depths_of_Peril

[Svartalf]

I was digging up some other possible prospects and came across this one. Possible candidate, Svartalf?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FATE_(computer_game)


Ahhh... Alex Saint-John's little company. The biggest concern here is one of convincing the man that there's money to be had in Linux. I've had online discussions with Alex in the past. He's sort of Windows friendly (considering he helped architect DirectX (think about it... :D)) but with Vista being unfriendly to his company he might consider us being more worth his trouble with this and his other games these days. Lemme think on that one a bit further. I'm thinking "maybe" but if you can whisper in his ear and change the story a bit...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depths_of_Peril

Indie. I'd have to playtest the thing before I make a final call on it, but I'd say it's a "looking into" one at this time.

[niniendowarrior]

Ahhh... Alex Saint-John's little company. The biggest concern here is one of convincing the man that there's money to be had in Linux. I've had online discussions with Alex in the past. He's sort of Windows friendly (considering he helped architect DirectX (think about it... :D)) but with Vista being unfriendly to his company he might consider us being more worth his trouble with this and his other games these days. Lemme think on that one a bit further. I'm thinking "maybe" but if you can whisper in his ear and change the story a bit...

I don't pretend to have any sort of contact with him. I'm just an end-consumer looking into possible titles for everyone. :)


Indie. I'd have to playtest the thing before I make a final call on it, but I'd say it's a "looking into" one at this time.

Cool. I don't know what these titles are, to be frank, but I thought they *might* be something worth looking into.

[niniendowarrior]

On a side note, I wonder what's the story of this one.

http://www.ubi.com/US/News/Info.aspx?nId=1961

It's old news. Really old. But it's just a little intriguing how Three Rings even convinced Ubisoft to allow a Linux release.

EDIT:
Still digging around for obscure things and I found this.
http://forums.electronicarts.co.uk/voting-booth/302226-linux-version-ea-games.html
What a funny thread to think they got an EA Community Representative to mention "Linux". lol.

[Svartalf]

On a side note, I wonder what's the story of this one.

http://www.ubi.com/US/News/Info.aspx?nId=1961

It's old news. Really old. But it's just a little intriguing how Three Rings even convinced Ubisoft to allow a Linux release.


Heh... Three Rings is one of the few game studios that's successfully using Java for the language and runtime environment for their titles (Oddlabs being another one...)- they couldn't help but announce it for all platforms, much like Oddlabs does. (I remember what they did when they were up for the Indie awards at GDC the year I went there... They all ran around dressed up like pirates... :D)

Bang! Howdy seems like it's fun- and it's available just like Puzzle Pirates is for Linux.

[RobbieAB]

That thread has me wanting to request a Sparc Solaris version...

[Svartalf]

That thread has me wanting to request a Sparc Solaris version...

Heh... Bang! Howdy runs from a browser window- if you've got a Java plugin and a modern OpenGL card it should work for any platform, I suspect. ;)

[RobbieAB]

I meant the EA games thread...

"Linux jjust isn't niche enough anymore... I WANT EA games on my Solaris Sparc workstation!" :D

[Svartalf]

EDIT:
Still digging around for obscure things and I found this.
http://forums.electronicarts.co.uk/voting-booth/302226-linux-version-ea-games.html
What a funny thread to think they got an EA Community Representative to mention "Linux". lol.

What I love more is that the Windows fanboys seem to feel that they HAVE to put Linux down at every turn. While I don't like Windows, I certainly don't deny them their "right" to have those games and wouldn't if the positions were reversed. It's almost like their very existence is threatened by people that think Linux is great.

[Svartalf]

I meant the EA games thread...

"Linux jjust isn't niche enough anymore... I WANT EA games on my Solaris Sparc workstation!" :D

ROFLMAO! Hell, if you're looking for "niche"... Solaris is too mainstream even- you're probably wanting games for Haiku. :D

[RobbieAB]

Haiku is still x86, no?

[niniendowarrior]

What I love more is that the Windows fanboys seem to feel that they HAVE to put Linux down at every turn. While I don't like Windows, I certainly don't deny them their "right" to have those games and wouldn't if the positions were reversed. It's almost like their very existence is threatened by people that think Linux is great.

I certainly find it all that much silly. I was browsing that forum for Linux threads and I came across one poster who said: "Why do you use Linux? We are not in the 70s anymore." Words from the ignorant and stupid people. lol.

I wonder if the community representative got reprimanded for mentioning Linux. lol. :D

[Svartalf]

Haiku is still x86, no?

Yes, but it's VERY "niche". I would think they would need games badly, in light of that line of thinking... ;)

(Now I need to quit being bad here...I do think that it'd be a good idea for them to get games for it- once it's at the 1.0 stage on X86 and it's coming to life for ARM and PPC...)

[Svartalf]

I wonder if the community representative got reprimanded for mentioning Linux. lol. :D

The remark about the Linux for Dummies book can be taken two ways, really...

1) They never give it a second thought.

2) They don't need it because they KNOW it, at least from the server angle (Hint: I've been propositioned by a BUNCH of the industry players over the last four years now to make their server stuff go. Linux gets mentioned a lot on the cold-call emails I get from their recruiters...most of them, actually...)

As for bringing it up as a potential target market, though...heh...his "boss" at EA probably gnawed around the edges of his arse and it fell off over that... ;)

[xav1r]

Yes, but it's VERY "niche". I would think they would need games badly, in light of that line of thinking... ;)

(Now I need to quit being bad here...I do think that it'd be a good idea for them to get games for it- once it's at the 1.0 stage on X86 and it's coming to life for ARM and PPC...)

Haiku is for begginners, if you want hardcore try Plan9. Or if youre really hardcore try Menuet. :D

[xav1r]

BTW, here are some more suggestions, inspired by nintendowarrior's very own suggestions. :)

Lords of the Realm:
http://lords3.com/

turn based strategy game.

and similarly a strategy game...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shogun:_Total_War

This is a little more mainstream. Do you think Creative Assembly would be hostile to linux?

[deanjo]

Haiku is for begginners, if you want hardcore try Plan9. Or if youre really hardcore try Menuet. :D

Pffft, I have yet to see a bluescreen, kernel panic, segfault or the like using a 20 sided die, a piece of paper and pencil. (OK occasionally I have to sharpen the pencil):p

[niniendowarrior]

Pffft, I have yet to see a bluescreen, kernel panic, segfault or the like using a 20 sided die, a piece of paper and pencil. (OK occasionally I have to sharpen the pencil):p

And you need:
1. Calculator
2. Lots of paper
3. Eraser
4. Waste bin

:D

[niniendowarrior]

BTW, here are some more suggestions, inspired by nintendowarrior's very own suggestions. :)

Lords of the Realm:
http://lords3.com/

turn based strategy game.

and similarly a strategy game...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shogun:_Total_War

This is a little more mainstream. Do you think Creative Assembly would be hostile to linux?

Lords of the Realm... oh my goodness. Now that's a classic. EDIT: LOL. xav1r, did you see the "VU" logo at the top right corner? :D
Total War series is abit out of reach, IMO.

[ZedDB]

I see that natural selection 2 is already on the list. Sorry if it has already been mentioned but they have now switched from source to a self developed engine (Read more about it here: http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/news/2008/07/engine_questions_and_answers)
They are also very open to help with porting it to linux!
That means game + devtools ;) http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/forums/index.php?showtopic=104522&view=findpost&p=1683153
http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/forums/index.php?showtopic=104522&view=findpost&p=1684238

Besides that how does "The legacy of Kain" series look?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_of_Kain:_Soul_Reaver
Maybe something you and GoG chould be working on later? ;)

[Svartalf]

I see that natural selection 2 is already on the list. Sorry if it has already been mentioned but they have now switched from source to a self developed engine (Read more about it here: http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/news/2008/07/engine_questions_and_answers)
They are also very open to help with porting it to linux!
That means game + devtools ;) http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/forums/index.php?showtopic=104522&view=findpost&p=1683153
http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/forums/index.php?showtopic=104522&view=findpost&p=1684238


Looks like a "strike while the iron's hot" moment to me. I didn't know they were that open to things. I'll see if I can get them to talk with me here after I get Bandits off my plate. I wouldn't mind bringing something out for Linux either on or near release date for the Windows version for a change... And it looks like a cool game.


Besides that how does "The legacy of Kain" series look?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_of_Kain:_Soul_Reaver
Maybe something you and GoG chould be working on later? ;)

It might be. It's conceivable that there's something that GoG could talk to Eidos about and get a deal going on them. It's definitely one of those cool factor games from the past that would rock as an inexpensive remix.

[Svartalf]

Lords of the Realm:
http://lords3.com/

turn based strategy game.


Don't know about that one. It's a VU title. We're going to have to see what they do with all those old Sierra titles from the merger fallout to see what will/won't be something to pursue out of their back catalog. For example, I'm thinking that the Riddick game might be obtainable from Starbreeze if their new publisher for the remix of the original is okay with it.


and similarly a strategy game...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shogun:_Total_War

This is a little more mainstream. Do you think Creative Assembly would be hostile to linux?

They might not be, but unless they kept something to themselves (Like alternate platforms or online distribution...) then EA or SEGA have final say in the title in question depending on when it was made. Since SEGA owns them now, even if they kept rights, you'd have to ask SEGA for the rights access- which right at the moment, is a slim to none chance...

[Dragonlord]

Hehe... I'm astonished people in here know about Haiku ( former OpenBeOS ). Funny thing is that in a ( very ) older version my engine compiled and ran on BeOS ( back then one of those modified personal versions... don't think it's still up on the net though ). Played Quake2 and Quake on that same BeOS. It's unfair to be niche though. It's faster than Linux ( and therefore way faster than Windows since Windows is a lot slower than Linux ) and the DB file system is just sweet. Why the hell did Linux not get such a splendid thing? :/

[Svartalf]

Hehe... I'm astonished people in here know about Haiku ( former OpenBeOS ).

What can I say- I'm a CS junkie... ;)


Funny thing is that in a ( very ) older version my engine compiled and ran on BeOS ( back then one of those modified personal versions... don't think it's still up on the net though ). Played Quake2 and Quake on that same BeOS.


That's kinda cool.


It's unfair to be niche though. It's faster than Linux ( and therefore way faster than Windows since Windows is a lot slower than Linux )


Biggest reason is that it's still not done yet and it came along after Linux got to be what it is. It's still got to reach the same critical mass and have the same level of hardware support- of which neither is present for Haiku right at the moment.


and the DB file system is just sweet. Why the hell did Linux not get such a splendid thing? :/

I think something is in the works right now... The main reason is nobody that could bring together that sort of thing was doing Linux stuff.

[xav1r]

Can Haiku be used as an everyday system? What apps can it run, including games, besides quake and doom? I mean, the guys that worked on Menuet (actually one guy) has doom and quake working natively on Menuet, and that system is 100% asm only. :D

[xav1r]

Lords of the Realm... oh my goodness. Now that's a classic. EDIT: LOL. xav1r, did you see the "VU" logo at the top right corner? :D
Total War series is abit out of reach, IMO.

Damn, no, in my enthusiasm, i didnt notice it. :P Oh well, lets see what other choices are available then ...

[xav1r]

Don't know about that one. It's a VU title. We're going to have to see what they do with all those old Sierra titles from the merger fallout to see what will/won't be something to pursue out of their back catalog. For example, I'm thinking that the Riddick game might be obtainable from Starbreeze if their new publisher for the remix of the original is okay with it.



They might not be, but unless they kept something to themselves (Like alternate platforms or online distribution...) then EA or SEGA have final say in the title in question depending on when it was made. Since SEGA owns them now, even if they kept rights, you'd have to ask SEGA for the rights access- which right at the moment, is a slim to none chance...

Damn, we could try asking Sega, right? Since theyre such a big company, probably itd be more effective if you contacted them directly, since they probably will only listen to other companies. Althogh i can try asking anyways. Ill ask CA first for alt-platforms & online distribution thing.

Regarding Riddick, how would we know that? By asking Starbreeze, or Activision? This would be very good too, since the new Riddick game was supposed to come out as a VU published game, before the game selloff.

[xav1r]

What about that mmo game Asheron's Call? I think the company that made it also made the Lord of the Rings game too.