An instance of what the games industry has become... [Archive]

Svartalf

06-24-2008, 06:41 PM

I offer for your reading, an instance of the kinds of things that go on in this industry : http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_150/4921-Cyberpunked-the-Fall-of-Black9

What the link goes to is a personal account of what Majesco did to a small studio on an AAA, completely new franchise title. I'm pretty sure it's close enough to the truth of the matter to count. I've seen similar kinds of crap going on (including stuff from out of what Loki pulled towards the end of things...).

Aradreth

06-24-2008, 07:00 PM

That has to be one of the worst stories I've heard coming out of the gaming industry and I've heard some pretty bad ones.

Svartalf

06-24-2008, 07:14 PM

That has to be one of the worst stories I've heard coming out of the gaming industry and I've heard some pretty bad ones.

Heh... At least you've gotten a bigger glimpse of the kinds of crap I've had the misfortune to glimpse or see fully for myself and can't discuss.

niniendowarrior

06-24-2008, 11:02 PM

Oh, I know this. I've lived this life for a good five years of building software. Computer science is a legitimate way towards slave driving. That's the truth I have concluded from my dealings in the past. It's horrible but just to tell you, these sort of stories do not only proliferate in the game industry.

Svartalf

06-24-2008, 11:15 PM

Oh, I know this. I've lived this life for a good five years of building software.

Heh... Only five... You'll have five times that to go to have experienced all that I have at the hands of the people in this space. There's good people, there's bad.

In the end, there's a LOT of this sort of thing going on in the Games Industry- and people just don't know, or probably care, when you get down to brass tacks.

niniendowarrior

06-24-2008, 11:44 PM

I don't think we are in the competition of seeing who is more bitter. :D These kinds of crap do happen whether people give a damn or not. In any case, they probably would just continue mowing the lawn of their backyard.

Edit:
What can I say? I walked out early. Having enough of it all.

Svartalf

06-25-2008, 12:00 AM

What can I say? I walked out early. Having enough of it all.

Damn, sounds like me today... ;)

Met up with my GF. Brightened my day, coupled with the actual positive energy I think I may have harnessed in the wishlist thread.

niniendowarrior

06-25-2008, 12:13 AM

Yeah, we've had a tad bit too much of the negative vibe through out the game forum. This is definitely a nice change.

We should coax your GF to visit you more often, so you can start working. :D

xav1r

06-25-2008, 12:38 PM

Aradreth

06-25-2008, 12:47 PM

xav1r

06-25-2008, 12:49 PM

Damm my career orientation courses!!!:mad::mad::mad:

Svartalf

06-25-2008, 01:21 PM

Damm my career orientation courses!!!:mad::mad::mad:

ROFLMAO!

In truth, it's not as bad as it sounds- the problem lies in that people have HIGHLY unrealistic expectations of a LOT of things these days. All the way around on everything, whether you're an employee somewhere, an employer, or one of the consumer crowd.

Right now, I'm just tired beyond description of dealing with people that claim the moral high ground with the GPL and Linux, but yet don't seem to give a tinker's damn about anyone else's rights because 'it's not a guaranteed sale' and 'information wants to be free' and other crap. It gets old when people go and take a copy of something that they technically didn't have rights to but yet get pissy when someone does the same thing with the GPL/LGPL they get their panties in a wad.

Aradreth

06-25-2008, 01:35 PM

Damm my career orientation courses!!!:mad::mad::mad:
Doesn't matter what job you get they nearly all suck in the end. ;)

niniendowarrior

06-25-2008, 11:21 PM

Really? So the computer science field is that soul draining and pathetic as slave work? Damn, I think im gonna switch majors to investment banking then. :D Well, what i really want to do is design levels, and design new gameplay too. Mostly creative work.

I don't mean to put the course in a negative light, but I've seen in slave culture cultivate in many companies (even though some of them vehemently deny its existence). Computer science has its own perks and there is a sense of fulfillment, but in the software industry, you are often beaten to the ground and left drained like a used whore thrown to the streets.

Developers are always the unsung heroes. They are the ones that toil the hours in the midst of twilight. Each with his own aspirations but become truly lost in the run up to deliver unrealistic deliverables drawn in unrealistic time lines, and unrealistic expectations in a very much maligned environment.

For me, I still do development, but I believe I've found my sweet spot. If you love your what you do, treasure it.

xav1r

06-29-2008, 01:26 PM

me262

07-09-2008, 08:18 PM

Ok, thanks for the great replies. I do hope i find some sort of sweet spot too. Yea, maybe its the unrealistic expectations, perhaps i should lower mine. :D And I had already done that when i began school. :rolleyes: Still, i want to be somehow in the game industry. Maybe in a more creative way, but in nonetheless.
Amen. I hope to start school for game dev later this year, and back out in 2 years, getting a job at Blizzard.

... no one pop this bubble I have, k?

RobbieAB

07-09-2008, 08:46 PM

Amen. I hope to start school for game dev later this year, and back out in 2 years, getting a job at Blizzard.

... no one pop this bubble I have, k?

Aww... *puts pin away*

Svartalf

07-09-2008, 11:20 PM

Aww... *puts pin away*

Pin???

<*putting away the Barett .50 cal...*>

(Hey, there is no "overkill", only "Open Fire" and "I need to reload"...per Rule 37 from over at Schlock Mercenary (http://www.schlockmercenary.com) ;))

Svartalf

07-09-2008, 11:22 PM

Amen. I hope to start school for game dev later this year, and back out in 2 years, getting a job at Blizzard.

... no one pop this bubble I have, k?

BTB, as long as VU allows them to operate the way they have been, things should be "decent" over there at Blizzard. I would just watch myself if it were me- and never, ever give 'em ANYTHING without paying for it somehow.

xav1r

07-09-2008, 11:35 PM

Pin???

<*putting away the Barett .50 cal...*>

(Hey, there is no "overkill", only "Open Fire" and "I need to reload"...per Rule 37 from over at Schlock Mercenary (http://www.schlockmercenary.com) ;))

Been playing a lot of cod4 lately, havent ya? :p

Svartalf

07-09-2008, 11:40 PM

Been playing a lot of cod4 lately, havent ya? :p

Nahh... Just yet another Schlocker. As for CoD4? Nope...don't have it, don't have a desire for it, right at the moment, either. I'm more of a UT2k4 and WoP fan if you must know.

xav1r

07-09-2008, 11:56 PM

Nahh... Just yet another Schlocker. As for CoD4? Nope...don't have it, don't have a desire for it, right at the moment, either. I'm more of a UT2k4 and WoP fan if you must know.

Ah k, great gaming choices, I assume you play them on linux, right?

me262

07-09-2008, 11:57 PM

BTB, as long as VU allows them to operate the way they have been, things should be "decent" over there at Blizzard. I would just watch myself if it were me- and never, ever give 'em ANYTHING without paying for it somehow.
Good to hear. I actually would have free reign when I get out, because I'd be moving from Michigan, to school in Florida, then I can go whereever, because there's not much available in Michigan (even LGP if so deemed, or Transgaming for a real challenge, and Blizzard is always hiring it seems).

My cousin just learned that lesson too. His social life became non-existent until he finally went to higher management. I've also heard of the horror stories at EA (although I hear it's gotten better), it really would be nice working for a company that does what they see fit.

I think you've just introduced me to Schlock, Svartalf

Svartalf

07-10-2008, 12:33 AM

Ah k, great gaming choices, I assume you play them on linux, right?

Heh... Is there any other platform to play 'em on? Anything else is sacrilege if you ask me... ;)

grigi

07-10-2008, 04:49 AM

Wow! I remember reading about developers doing Advent Rising got screwed over by Majesco, but this is so much worse...

And I am busy making the plunge into becoming a game developer...

:(:(:(:(:(

xav1r

07-10-2008, 09:01 AM

Heh... Is there any other platform to play 'em on? Anything else is sacrilege if you ask me... ;)

Well, theres the BSD platforms, Opensolaris, etc. They deserve some games too. :o

Svartalf

07-10-2008, 09:12 AM

Well, theres the BSD platforms, Opensolaris, etc. They deserve some games too. :o

Indeed, they do at that- for me, however... ;)

Svartalf

07-10-2008, 09:16 AM

Wow! I remember reading about developers doing Advent Rising got screwed over by Majesco, but this is so much worse...

Yep, that it is. There's a reason, even though Psychonauts is a neat game, that we're not going to even GO there, as I'm sure they'd give us the time of day on it- I'm sure they could use the cash out of the deal and it'd be a reasonable one at that. I just do not want to deal with that class of bottom feeders.

And I am busy making the plunge into becoming a game developer...

:(:(:(:(:(

Ahhh... It's not quite so bad as it sounds. If you take the position that things in this space are more akin to the music or movie industries and act accordingly, you should do decently enough.

me262

07-10-2008, 06:26 PM

Yep, that it is. There's a reason, even though Psychonauts is a neat game, that we're not going to even GO there, as I'm sure they'd give us the time of day on it- I'm sure they could use the cash out of the deal and it'd be a reasonable one at that. I just do not want to deal with that class of bottom feeders.
I think any company that does stuff like that should deserve to be shut down.
Too bad EA's too big to do that. ^_^

Ahhh... It's not quite so bad as it sounds. If you take the position that things in this space are more akin to the music or movie industries and act accordingly, you should do decently enough.
Come deadline, expect to get in some overtime (if you're lucky enough to be hourly).
As Svartalf's been telling me, get some kind of compensation if you're working beyond your means.

grigi

07-11-2008, 04:41 AM

Thanks for the encouraging words and advice guys.

me262, what do you mean by "working beyond your means"?

Svartalf

07-11-2008, 07:54 AM

Thanks for the encouraging words and advice guys.

me262, what do you mean by "working beyond your means"?

Anything past a normal work week for where you live. Most places, that's forty hours a week, 5 days in the week. If they ask less hours per day and more days it's "okay" if they give you breaks now and again. If they ask for more hours in less days (Say four ten hour days...) that's okay too. It's when they ask 50 hours a week or more- and then expect nothing at all in return (EA's done this in the games industry...there's others in other industries...) either in time off that never expires that you can call upon at any reasonable time and breaks every so often in the overtime work being done. If not, you'll burn out eventually and you're doing work for them on YOUR time as it's not being compensated for.

grigi

07-11-2008, 08:37 AM

Ah, ok.
So make sure that my contract states that overtime (crunch periods) will be compensated for (in time or money), and limits on what they may reasonably ask of me.

Right, noted.

me262

07-12-2008, 03:18 AM

Thanks for explaining Svartalf.
Been reading the Schlock Mercenary archives from sundown to near-sunup (it's hilarious, but I'm not getting anything done now).

Yeah.
My cousin found that he had almost no social life. He'd cancel weekly dinner, he and his wife would have dinner late (like 8pm late), and he was just too busy at work for anything.

I'm guessing that if you have those overtime clauses in there in the gaming industry, you'll most like get slightly less pay overall, but come deadline (if things are falling behind), it'll work in your favor.
I myself might say 40/55 hours. 2 additional hours each day, allowing 5 hours on Saturday. (I'm kinda teetering between that and 60 (a 10 hour Saturday, like the rest of the work week)),