ASUS ExpressGate -- beware of ripoff!

[mgc8]

The tone of this message may be somewhat unfriendly, but I want to warn other potential Linux users so they don't make the same mistake I made.

I have been using Linux for quite a while and often wondered why it's not included by default instead of the clumsy BIOS-es we have to struggle with. Needless to say, after reading the articles on this site and others regarding SplashTop being embedded with the P5Q line of Asus motherboards, I had a strong reason to choose one of them for my new build as opposed to, say, a Gigabyte or MSI with similar specs.

Initially I aimed for the P5Q-Deluxe model, but it was not in stock at my local retailers and they all said I'd have to wait at least 2-3 weeks; at the same time, the P5Q-Pro was in stock and from what I read on the ASUS website the features were similar enough for my needs (and, importantly, it included the "Express Gate" feature). So I went ahead and got that one, saving a few bucks (not many) at the same time.

BIG MISTAKE!

It turns out that only a select few of the ASUS boards actually have SplashTop installed on the motherboard. All the others (the p5q-pro included) do not. Instead they only have a stripped-down castrated version that needs to be installed on the HDD (!), on a NTFS partition under XP/Vista none-the-less (!!!).

I find this really appaling, especially since there is no warning on the ASUS site or elsewhere until you actually buy the product and read the manual (which doesn't make it clear either). The website only features a tiny hint -- the presence of three letters "SSD" on the "deluxe" models, and the absence thereof on the others -- without any other clear indication that the "Express Gate" version is totally different from the "Express Gate SSD" one.

This experience has severely shaken my trust in ASUS (whom have received quite a bit of my money during the past decade or so) and I will be much more circumspect of their products from now on. I urge the readers of this site to do the same.

It would be wonderful if Phoronix could write an article detailing this situation -- after all ASUS can trace at least some of their sales to the articles announcing it's "linux-friendliness". Maybe some bad press will deter them from doing this in the future.

P.S.: As it stands, this feature does not even work on my MB. I had only Linux installed initially and a black screen with an error message upon boot ("Express Gate is not properly installed or incomplete, please run the Installer in Windows" is what it said for a second before the BIOS started), but now I installed Vista and a) the program from the included DVD which didn't do anything, afterwards b) the latest version from the website which created a bunch of Asus.xxx directories in my C:\ root but still -- no go, the same black screen on boot. Shame on you, ASUS!

[deanjo]

The tone of this message may be somewhat unfriendly, but I want to warn other potential Linux users so they don't make the same mistake I made.

I have been using Linux for quite a while and often wondered why it's not included by default instead of the clumsy BIOS-es we have to struggle with. Needless to say, after reading the articles on this site and others regarding SplashTop being embedded with the P5Q line of Asus motherboards, I had a strong reason to choose one of them for my new build as opposed to, say, a Gigabyte or MSI with similar specs.

Initially I aimed for the P5Q-Deluxe model, but it was not in stock at my local retailers and they all said I'd have to wait at least 2-3 weeks; at the same time, the P5Q-Pro was in stock and from what I read on the ASUS website the features were similar enough for my needs (and, importantly, it included the "Express Gate" feature). So I went ahead and got that one, saving a few bucks (not many) at the same time.

BIG MISTAKE!

It turns out that only a select few of the ASUS boards actually have SplashTop installed on the motherboard. All the others (the p5q-pro included) do not. Instead they only have a stripped-down castrated version that needs to be installed on the HDD (!), on a NTFS partition under XP/Vista none-the-less (!!!).

I find this really appaling, especially since there is no warning on the ASUS site or elsewhere until you actually buy the product and read the manual (which doesn't make it clear either). The website only features a tiny hint -- the presence of three letters "SSD" on the "deluxe" models, and the absence thereof on the others -- without any other clear indication that the "Express Gate" version is totally different from the "Express Gate SSD" one.

This experience has severely shaken my trust in ASUS (whom have received quite a bit of my money during the past decade or so) and I will be much more circumspect of their products from now on. I urge the readers of this site to do the same.

It would be wonderful if Phoronix could write an article detailing this situation -- after all ASUS can trace at least some of their sales to the articles announcing it's "linux-friendliness". Maybe some bad press will deter them from doing this in the future.

P.S.: As it stands, this feature does not even work on my MB. I had only Linux installed initially and a black screen with an error message upon boot ("Express Gate is not properly installed or incomplete, please run the Installer in Windows" is what it said for a second before the BIOS started), but now I installed Vista and a) the program from the included DVD which didn't do anything, afterwards b) the latest version from the website which created a bunch of Asus.xxx directories in my C:\ root but still -- no go, the same black screen on boot. Shame on you, ASUS!


Hmmm, must of been a mistake with the packaging on your box. Other Asus boards clearly label if Expressgate Light is being used (example below). I would be contacting Asus about that.

http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=3&l2=149&l3=659&l4=0&model=2139&modelmenu=1

[curaga]

Why is this the first time I hear about this?
They have been around, what, months at least, and this dirty trick comes out now?

I won't be buying Asus, that's for sure.

[mgc8]

Hmmm, must of been a mistake with the packaging on your box. Other Asus boards clearly label if Expressgate Light is being used (example below). I would be contacting Asus about that.


Well, see for yourself:
http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=3&l2=11&l3=709&l4=0&model=2269&modelmenu=1

I have sent a message for the fact that the feature isn't working, other than that there isn't much to do. Even if by some strech of imagination they would refund me, it's not worth my time to take the computer apart and reassemble it, I'd much rather warn others so they don't fall for this as well.

Interesting how they labeled the thing differently on the other MB, probably some annoyed customers already wrote to them about it... Too bad they forgot about the "old" P5Q boards.

Why is this the first time I hear about this?
They have been around, what, months at least, and this dirty trick comes out now?

What can I say, long live marketing (also interesting to note the messages in other threads here about capacitors exploding and their so-called EPU which according to Gigabyte is nothing but a lie... seems like they may have taken their customers for fools a little too much)!

[deanjo]

Well, see for yourself:
http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=3&l2=11&l3=709&l4=0&model=2269&modelmenu=1

I have sent a message for the fact that the feature isn't working, other than that there isn't much to do. Even if by some strech of imagination they would refund me, it's not worth my time to take the computer apart and reassemble it, I'd much rather warn others so they don't fall for this as well.

Interesting how they labeled the thing differently on the other MB, probably some annoyed customers already wrote to them about it... Too bad they forgot about the "old" P5Q boards.
)!


I'm not doubting you, I'm just pointing out that this doesn't seem to be the case with all boards. (In fact all of the AMD boards have it clearly listed at least.).

[ficsch]

This really really sucks!

I made the same "mistake". I bought the P5Q-Pro. "Mistake" because how could I knew the SSD and AHCI/RAID problems before?
Express Gate only works in SATA-IDE mode. It does _not_ work in RAID or AHCI mode.

[mgc8]

This really really sucks!
I made the same "mistake". I bought the P5Q-Pro. "Mistake" because how could I knew the SSD and AHCI/RAID problems before?
Express Gate only works in SATA-IDE mode. It does _not_ work in RAID or AHCI mode.

A-ha! Thanks for the information! ASUS hasn't replied yet to my mail, but I guess you got this from them? Indeed, I am running the board in AHCI mode (duh)... Is there any discussion thread somewhere else about these issues?

I'm not doubting you, I'm just pointing out that this doesn't seem to be the case with all boards. (In fact all of the AMD boards have it clearly listed at least.).

I think the AMD boards are newer, so their marketing and packaging has been updated after some annoyed customers complained about the "wonderful" feature... they probably forgot about the P5Q's.

[Kano]

Well this is really interesting. I would like to get those installed files on hd, maybe they are compressed in a common way and could be extracted ;)

Maybe they use grub4dos or grub2 with ntfs support and seek for the partition this way:

a) GRUB4DOS:

title Splashtop
find /ASUS.SYS/ce_bz
kernel /ASUS.SYS/ce_bz

b) GRUB2

menuentry "Splashtop" {
search --set /ASUS.SYS/ce_bz
linux /ASUS.SYS/ce_bz
}

You can expect that the whole system consits only of 2 files - kernel + initrd and the bootloader is maybe embeeded in bios. Basically a 3rd file for rootfs is possible but I would not expect this. If they would use GRUB2 they could configure it with AHCI support too btw. If you get those files you can boot em with any Linux bootloader of course... Interesting would just be the output of

cat /proc/cmdline

to get the options for the kernel... The nice thing would be that you could extract the initrd, make your changes and compress it again. That would be harder for the usb solution, althought not impossible as it is only put on a pin header and usb only needs 4 wires to work - anybody who can use a voltmeter should find the right pins to create a simple usb adapter to the pin header.

Please try to use a paste website and upload /proc/cmdline.

Edit: Corrected the GRUB4DOS/GRUB2 entries.

[mgc8]

Well this is really interesting. I would like to get those installed files on hd, maybe they are compressed in a common way and could be extracted ;)

Actuall, I think it's easy to get to the files. The ASUS installer creates two directories:
1. ASUS.000, containing user-000.dat, user-000.md5 and user-000.date plus the same with -001.
This seems to be the file holding user data, it's an (empty) ext2 loop image. The .date and .md5 are self-explaining. Why there are two of them I don't know -- probably two user profiles? Anyway, they are 33MBytes each.

2. ASUS.SYS -- this contains the actual SplashTop, it's about 170MBytes. There is a 'help' directory (with a .html and some images), a 'custom' one which seems empty and a 'persist' directory identical to the ASUS.000 above.
Then there are a bunch of files (62 to be exact) with the actual software. There is a 'kernel.bin', some other files and a bunch of {bs|va}-xxx.sqx files (Apple archives?! why?) like va-firefox.sqx and bs-apache.sqx, pretty self-explanatory if you ask me.

I think you can get the files yourself by downloading the archive from the ASUS website, check this out (search for Express Gate):
http://support.asus.com/download/download.aspx?SLanguage=en-us&model=P5Q%20Deluxe

I think the AHCI limitation is with the BIOS bootloader, and it probably requires a BIOS update to fix... Bummer.

If you need any more details, feel free to ask!

[Kano]

I extracted the 256 MB image, converted to vmdk, installed grub and tried booting the ce_bz kernel, I got to the menu, but could not start any app. Maybe somebody else finds it out...

[drosky]

I just built a system with a P5Q-E and was also surprised to find out that express gate needed to be installed onto the HDD. While it bugged me at first, it isn't the end of the world, and I don't think Asus deserves total bashing over it. Yes, they could be more clear about it in their literature, but they are trying to bring this to lower cost motherboards, which will make it more widespread - this will ultimately be a good thing for both splashtop and Linux.

In terms of being "lite", does anybody know what the difference actually is other than installing on HDD vs. SSD? All of the apps I expected to see are there - firefox, skype, pidgin, and some flash-based photo album tool, plus the ability to play mp3's. Are there more apps on the SSD version?

[RobbieAB]

I think a large part is the coolness factor of SSD. I can't see the SSD having more stuff on it than a HDD set-up!

[mgc8]

I just built a system with a P5Q-E and was also surprised to find out that express gate needed to be installed onto the HDD. While it bugged me at first, it isn't the end of the world, and I don't think Asus deserves total bashing over it. Yes, they could be more clear about it in their literature, but they are trying to bring this to lower cost motherboards, which will make it more widespread - this will ultimately be a good thing for both splashtop and Linux.

I don't really see it like that. First of all, this feature is being marketed as a "separate OS" that you can boot into no matter the state of your installed OS'es. For me this was very important, as I happen to test all sorts of beta software in both Linux and Win, and from time to time it can render the partitions unbootable. Having some tool that is always there on the MB was a big plus. Of course I can always use a USB stick or a CD, but the main point was the convenience of it all.

Secondly, as far as I can see, the "light" version works only from a NTFS partition. This basically means that you need to have WinXp/Vista installed, which is extremely annoying for anyone that doesn't want to have anything to do with those. Sure, you can probably create the partition in Linux and hack around the installer to get the archives on it, but it kindof defeats the purpose.

Third, one of the uses I envisioned for the embedded OS was a sort of gateway/movie player without HDD. It would work great in a small enclosure with a slower processor and passive cooling. By playing around with the SplashTop source I am sure I'd be able to get mplayer there if it's not already, and play movies over NFS/Samba/whatever. Again, needing a HDD blows it all off.

Let's not forget also the fact that because it is installed on the HDD, you get stupid limitations like the fact that it doesn't support AHCI or RAID. So you basically have to choose between crippling you storage or using it. In my case this basically means that the advertised "ExpressGate" feature is not working. At all.

Bottom line is, of course this feature is not the end-all of functionality, but it was an important reason I chose this motherboard over others. When you get down to it, all MB's are basically identical, and differentiate on features like this. I (and surely others) just valued this one above pink PCIe slots... That's why I feel betrayed by ASUS -- all they had to do was clearly label it on the website and packaging, so that it was evident to anyone looking, then I would've made an informed decision. At least it seems they do that on more recent MB's, like the AMD ones.

In terms of being "lite", does anybody know what the difference actually is other than installing on HDD vs. SSD? All of the apps I expected to see are there - firefox, skype, pidgin, and some flash-based photo album tool, plus the ability to play mp3's. Are there more apps on the SSD version?

I think they are identical in terms of content and applications, actually it may be easier to hack around the HDD version (as has been discussed here). But the SSD factor was crucial, at least in my case.

P.S.: How much did they save on the cost anyway? I mean, the chip is basically a 512MB USB stick soldered to he MB, that would be like 10$ off the shelf... Plus, this motherboard (p5q-pro) is by no means "low cost", it's right in the "upper-midrange" segment, so it really was a lame choice in my opinion.

[Kano]

I doubt that it can only work from NTFS as the installer package has got a 256 mb image for USB sticks - partitioned with one FAT partition. I guess you can start it from USB Stick too. Most easy way would be copy it to an usb stick (directly on the device). Inside Vbox I only managed to start the menu - but maybe I forgot something.

[mgc8]

I doubt that it can only work from NTFS as the installer package has got a 256 mb image for USB sticks - partitioned with one FAT partition. I guess you can start it from USB Stick too. Most easy way would be copy it to an usb stick (directly on the device). Inside Vbox I only managed to start the menu - but maybe I forgot something.

I think that's the image for the "Full" ExG SSD version; anyway, the point is -- if you install it on a stick, will the BIOS loader see it? I tried a simple "copy to stick, reboot computer" test, but it didn't work. Maybe it needs more coaxing or a BIOS patch...

Anyway, if I do that I might as well install Kanotix on a stick and leave it plugged into a USB slot, it would offer a lot more functionality and customisation options methinks :)

[Kano]

Well you can install grub onto the stick too and add a small menu.lst to load the ce_bz kernel image. That is enough to show the menu - but I was not able to select the apps.

[Fixxer_Linux]

. Shame on you, ASUS!

Thanks a lot for this thread, as I'm looking for purchasing new pieces of my new computer and was about to pick-up a P5Q-Pro mainly because of Express Gate, which was for me a decisive advantage of this board over the Gigabyte competitor.

I don't exclude completely the P5Q-Pro now that I've read this thread, but I agree that the shame goes to Asus.

I've read somewhere in the forums that Mickael has some board around and is preparing an article for testing some recent mobo. I hope there is soon such a test, so I can make my choice having the peace of mind with the linux compatibility.

[Kano]

Well I still do not own a board with native support for Splashtop, but basically I can not see any point why it would be impossible to boot from external USB. Did anybody try it? RAID/AHCI devices should not be needed that way.

[drosky]

I don't really see it like that. First of all, this feature is being marketed as a "separate OS" that you can boot into no matter the state of your installed OS'es. For me this was very important, as I happen to test all sorts of beta software in both Linux and Win, and from time to time it can render the partitions unbootable. Having some tool that is always there on the MB was a big plus. Of course I can always use a USB stick or a CD, but the main point was the convenience of it all.

I do generally agree that SSD is better (and sexier, as some have mentioned), but splashtop doesn't really have any system rescue functionality so I'm not sure it would help much to be able to boot it if your other partitions are damaged. You'd be much better off with SystemRescueCD or some other liveCD or pendrive linux. Having said that, putting some diagnostic and configuration functionality into splashtop would be a really good idea, though. Asus does at least provide the functionality to install to a USB stick, which is basically an external SSD, albeit slower.

Secondly, as far as I can see, the "light" version works only from a NTFS partition. This basically means that you need to have WinXp/Vista installed, which is extremely annoying for anyone that doesn't want to have anything to do with those. Sure, you can probably create the partition in Linux and hack around the installer to get the archives on it, but it kindof defeats the purpose.

It does appear to work on VFAT. For various historical reasons, I have XP installed in a VFAT partition, and Express gate installed with no issues. I think the main limitation is that the SATA controller must be operating in IDE mode with no RAID. Splashtop must be using a kernel too old to support AHCI, and does not have the pieces in place to handle RAID.

Bottom line is, of course this feature is not the end-all of functionality, but it was an important reason I chose this motherboard over others. When you get down to it, all MB's are basically identical, and differentiate on features like this. I (and surely others) just valued this one above pink PCIe slots... That's why I feel betrayed by ASUS -- all they had to do was clearly label it on the website and packaging, so that it was evident to anyone looking, then I would've made an informed decision. At least it seems they do that on more recent MB's, like the AMD ones.

I agree that their literature should be better regarding this. It's hard to find much technical information at all about splashtop without downloading the source code. My main gripe here is that if Asus is going to have an HDD versions of Express gate, one thing that would be nice (and the main thing that bugged me) would be for them to provide a way of installing it to a USB stick or a small FAT partition without requiring Windows. I wouldn't really mind using a USB stick in lieu of an internal SSD, but right now, there's no easy and clean way of installing it to USB stick in a non-windows system.


P.S.: How much did they save on the cost anyway? I mean, the chip is basically a 512MB USB stick soldered to he MB, that would be like 10$ off the shelf... Plus, this motherboard (p5q-pro) is by no means "low cost", it's right in the "upper-midrange" segment, so it really was a lame choice in my opinion.

I don't know what Asus's cost structure is for their motherboards, but they apparently can't meet their required gross margins with the SSD on the mid-priced MB's. What surprises me is why they don't put a header on the board, which they could do for a few cents, and then make an optional module for the SSD. That way, people with lower-cost motherboards would be able to upgrade just that feature if they wanted to.

One thing to keep in mind is that Splashtop and Express gate are relatively new tools, and it's entirely likely that they may have missed the mark a little with these first versions. If there is something that could be improved, we should provide feedback. I think the best thing to ask for would be that they document the BIOS hooks into Express gate, so third parties can write their own completely separate instant-boot environments.

[mgc8]

I've read somewhere in the forums that Mickael has some board around and is preparing an article for testing some recent mobo. I hope there is soon such a test, so I can make my choice having the peace of mind with the linux compatibility.

Well, since we're on the subject, I can tell you that linux compatibility is so-so with this board (the p5q-pro that is, I can't discuss other variants as there are differences). First, even with a 2.6.26 kernel, the on-board Ethernet is not functional. It seems the Attansic chips ASUS has a love affair with lately are even more varied: after the atl1 and variants, now we have "atl1e". Fortunately, there is a driver available from the ASUS website but you need to compile it by hand for the time being. Secondly, with the latest lm-sensors, the on-board monitoring is not detected, and all you have are the processor diodes. I don't use on-board sound and RAID so I can't comment on those. Needless to say, also all the "EPU/AI-Nap/Auto overclocking" features of the board are not accessible from Linux (albeit some voices say they are all software anyway).

All of these are somewhat minor issues that will probably be solved soon, however they preclude the board from working 100% out-of-the-box.

Other than that, it's lightning fast and stable as far as I can tell, and it's a board I'd recommend if not for the issues discussed.

One thing to keep in mind is that Splashtop and Express gate are relatively new tools, and it's entirely likely that they may have missed the mark a little with these first versions. If there is something that could be improved, we should provide feedback. I think the best thing to ask for would be that they document the BIOS hooks into Express gate, so third parties can write their own completely separate instant-boot environments.

I completely agree here. Hopefully we'll see some improvement and eventually a true swiss-army-knife Linux embedded in motherboards (ASUS say they plan to have BIOS-updating from SplashTop, at least that would be a plus; maybe in a day far-far-away we can eliminate the BIOS altogether and have Linux manage everything from the get-go)...

[Kano]

You could try this:

#!/bin/sh
DEVICE="/dev/USBSTICK"
IMAGE="FILE.IMG"
offset=$(($(sfdisk -d $IMAGE|grep start=|head -n1|sed 's/.*start=\s*//;s/,.*//')*512))
OPTIONS="umask=000,shortname=mixed,quiet,utf8"
DIR=/tmp/target
INPUT=/tmp/input
umount ${DEVICE}1 $INPUT
mkdir -p $DIR $INPUT
mount -o loop,offset=$offset,$OPIONS $IMAGE $INPUT
dd if=/dev/zero of=$DEVICE count=1
sfdisk -D -uM $DEVICE <<EOT
,220,6,*
,,b
EOT
#install-mbr -p D ${DEVICE}
lilo -s /dev/null -M ${DEVICE}
mkdosfs -F16 -nDVMUSB ${DEVICE}1
mkdosfs -F32 -nDATA ${DEVICE}2
syslinux -s ${DEVICE}1
mount -o $OPTIONS ${DEVICE}1 $DIR
cat > $DIR/syslinux.cfg <<EOT
default /ce_bz
EOT
cp -av $INPUT/* $DIR/
umount ${DEVICE}1 $INPUT
sync


That boots to the menu, but does not work for me. Tried FAT32 and FAT16. (For FAT32 use "b" instead of "6" and -F32 instead of -F16"). Maybe it would be more easy to use what is copied on HD with the install tool.

Edit: Added -D flag to sfdisk increase boot compatibility with certain boards.
Edit 2: Don't use awk, use syslinux + lilo instead of grub - should be more portable because grub files are not at the same place in most cases. Instead of lilo you can use install-mbr (usually from the mbr package). I basically worte another variant that only uses lilo, but thats maybe not so ideal when the kernel file is moved.
Edit 3: Create 2 partitions, one is 220 mb for the system, the rest is fat32 and can be used to store data which you can access later, everything you store on first partition can not accessed.

[drosky]

Well, since we're on the subject, I can tell you that linux compatibility is so-so with this board (the p5q-pro that is, I can't discuss other variants as there are differences).

I can fill in some details for the P5Q-E variant. lm-sensors has the same problem - all you get are the four core temps, no voltages or fan speeds. OTOH, ethernet works fine out of the box, both controllers being Marvell (although the two are slightly different variants). As mentioned, all of the AI and auto overclocking stuff is windows only, but manual overclocking works great and the BIOS automatically adjusts Vcore when you change the FSB frequency.

One possible snag is that this board has a Marvell PATA controller, which is supported out of the box for kernel 2.6.25 and up, but older distros might have some issues.

For the distro I'm using (Opensuse 11, kernel 2.6.25), both suspend and hibernate seem to work OK, but hibernate fails to shut the power off around 50% of the time. This may be fixable by setting the power off mode to use power-off instead of ACPI, but I haven't tried yet.

Since I left SATA set to IDE mode, Express gate works fine off the HDD - goes from splash screen to Firefox loaded in around 15 seconds - which is longer than the advertised 5 seconds, but still quite usable. Although I don't use them as much, some of the other apps, like Pidgin and Skype, load faster (Firefox is the slowest). I also tried installing it to a Sandisk Ultra-II SD card in a Sandisk reader and that worked too, although it was a bit slower, but not too much so.

EDIT: For Express gate running Skype, load time is around 10 seconds from the Express gate menu to the Skype login dialog.

[drosky]

You could try this:

...

That boots to the menu, but does not work for me. Tried FAT32 and FAT16. (For FAT32 use "b" instead of "6" and -F32 instead of -F16"). Maybe it would be more easy to use what is copied on HD with the install tool.

Edit: Added -D flag to sfdisk increase boot compatibility with certain boards.

According to this article:

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NjEwNw

Express gate consists of an "appliance engine" running within a virtual environment ("core engine"). The core engine is integrated into the BIOS and contains various hardware drivers (including video).

I wonder if what you are doing when you use this method is you are booting just the appliance engine, which essentially presents the menu of appliances, but the appliances themselves require drivers and other capabilities that are provided by the core engine, which is not present when the appliance engine is booted this way.

Perhaps it is necessary to extract the core engine from a BIOS image and boot that instead.

[Kano]

The article is wrong. In the BIOS is only the startcode to boot the kernel. And the kernel is called ce_bz and can be started with grub too. To get the menu you can use something like:

VBoxManage internalcommands createrawvmdk -filename usbstick.vmdk -rawdisk /dev/USBSTICK

Vbox can select the vmdk as hd and start the menu, did not try that with VMware, maybe that works better. The apps itself do not work with Vbox. I don't know if the image somewhere checks for ASUS or ASrock hardware, maybe try it on different systems too. It does not boot on my systems however (I do not own Asus boards). If you have got problems with the script maybe try to use gawk instead of awk. What I use is the image which I expect is only copied on the interal usb drive on some deluxe boards 1:1. My script just uses a full usb stick and copies the content to the disk - so you could add your user data in the rest of the space. You can use 256 mb sticks up to 2 gb with fat16. Also it installs grub, of course i copy only the files from a 32 bit install of linux, update the cp lines with stage1/2 to match your system.

[drosky]

The article is wrong. In the BIOS is only the startcode to boot the kernel. And the kernel is called ce_bz and can be started with grub too.

OK, well that's good news. The article is old, so maybe they were originally planning to do it as in the article, and then decided on a simpler approach.

One possible issue when using VMWare, Vbox, or a different MB is that the image probably doesn't contain drivers for any hardware other than what's on the target MB. I don't know if this would cause the apps to fail to start.

[drosky]

Well this is really interesting. I would like to get those installed files on hd, maybe they are compressed in a common way and could be extracted ;)

Some of them are, and I have been able to hack the environment a bit. See new thread in this forum:

http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11610

[Kano]

Yes, I saw that already, file reported it. Btw. for those who don't want to boot it on real hardware can use this script to install grub inside the loop file. You can then boot it with qemu -hda (mouse does not work) or convert it into a vmdk and try booting it with vbox (i had no success with vmware player).

#!/bin/sh
IMAGE="FILE.IMG"
offset=$(($(sfdisk -d $IMAGE|awk '/start=/{print $4}'|head -n1|sed 's/,//')*512))
LOOP="/dev/loop0"
OPTIONS="umask=000,shortname=mixed,quiet,utf8"
DIR=/tmp/target
mkdir -p $DIR
losetup -d $LOOP
losetup $LOOP $IMAGE
umount $DIR
mount -o loop,offset=$offset,$OPIONS $IMAGE $DIR
mkdir -p $DIR/boot/grub
cat > $DIR/boot/grub/menu.lst <<EOT
timeout 0
title Test
kernel /ce_bz
EOT
cp -v /usr/lib/grub/i386-pc/stage1 $DIR/boot/grub
cp -v /usr/lib/grub/i386-pc/stage2 $DIR/boot/grub
grub --device-map=/dev/null --batch <<EOT
device (hd0) $LOOP
root (hd0,0)
setup --stage2=$DIR/boot/grub/stage2 (hd0)
EOT
umount $DIR
losetup -d $LOOP

To create a vmdk file:

qemu-img convert FILE.IMG -O vmdk test.vmdk

[anyone]

I used Kano's script and then could boot Splashtop from my usb key with an ASUS P5LD2 SE. Tried the browser and it started, though I couldn't open web pages as it didn't let me configure my wireless usb stick.
And it hung when I clicked the button which would start the actual OS. It's useless without internet connection but I'm still amazed it worked :)

[drosky]

I used Kano's script and then could boot Splashtop from my usb key with an ASUS P5LD2 SE. Tried the browser and it started, though I couldn't open web pages as it didn't let me configure my wireless usb stick.
And it hung when I clicked the button which would start the actual OS. It's useless without internet connection but I'm still amazed it worked :)

That's good news :) And thanks to Kano for figuring it out. I wonder if the problem with running in VMWare or on a MB very different from the tarbet MB is that the image may not contain the proper hardware drivers for the vmware environment or the foreign MB. The P5LD2 must be close enough to the target MB.

[drosky]

Yes, I saw that already, file reported it. Btw.

Yah, I didn't think to try that *grin*. I'm sort of new to this..

[ficsch]

I think that's the image for the "Full" ExG SSD version; anyway, the point is -- if you install it on a stick, will the BIOS loader see it? I tried a simple "copy to stick, reboot computer" test, but it didn't work. Maybe it needs more coaxing or a BIOS patch...



I booted windows and plugged an USB stick in. Then I called the ASUS installer and installed express gate to the USB. The wizard asked to which partition express gate shall be installed.
I chose booting from the stick (in BIOS) but that didn't work. Express gate's error message occurred while booting "... no express gate installed ..." or similar.
I didn't have a look at the files that were installed to the stick. But I think it was about 300 MB of space used.

[ficsch]

One possible snag is that this board has a Marvell PATA controller, which is supported out of the box for kernel 2.6.25 and up, but older distros might have some issues.


That's interesting. With my P5Q-Pro pata_marvell only works with 2.6.24 (Gentoo).
2.6.25 (Gentoo) and 2.6.26 (vanilla) doesn't work. Both built with 2.6.24's config (make oldconfig).
SATA is running in AHCI mode.

There's a log message when booting:


Jul 20 21:17:14 tuxford ata7: SATA max UDMA/133 abar m1024@0xfeaffc00 port 0xfeaffd00 irq 16
Jul 20 21:17:14 tuxford ata8: SATA max UDMA/133 abar m1024@0xfeaffc00 port 0xfeaffd80 irq 16
Jul 20 21:17:14 tuxford ata9: DUMMY
Jul 20 21:17:14 tuxford ata7: SATA link up 3.0 Gbps (SStatus 123 SControl 300)
Jul 20 21:17:14 tuxford ata7.15: qc timeout (cmd 0xe4)
Jul 20 21:17:14 tuxford ata7.15: failed to read PMP GSCR[0] (Emask=0x4)
Jul 20 21:17:14 tuxford ata7: failed to recover some devices, retrying in 5 secs
Jul 20 21:17:14 tuxford ata7: SATA link up 3.0 Gbps (SStatus 123 SControl 300)
Jul 20 21:17:14 tuxford ata7.15: qc timeout (cmd 0xe4)
Jul 20 21:17:14 tuxford ata7.15: failed to read PMP GSCR[0] (Emask=0x4)
Jul 20 21:17:14 tuxford ata7: failed to recover some devices, retrying in 5 secs
Jul 20 21:17:14 tuxford ata7: SATA link up 3.0 Gbps (SStatus 123 SControl 300)
Jul 20 21:17:14 tuxford ata7.15: qc timeout (cmd 0xe4)
Jul 20 21:17:14 tuxford ata7.15: failed to read PMP GSCR[0] (Emask=0x4)
Jul 20 21:17:14 tuxford ata7: failed to recover some devices, retrying in 5 secs
Jul 20 21:17:14 tuxford ata7: SATA link up 3.0 Gbps (SStatus 123 SControl 300)
Jul 20 21:17:14 tuxford ata8: SATA link down (SStatus 0 SControl 300)

Onboard LAN doesn't work, too (tried with atl1 from the kernel).

[drosky]

I booted windows and plugged an USB stick in. Then I called the ASUS installer and installed express gate to the USB. The wizard asked to which partition express gate shall be installed.
I chose booting from the stick (in BIOS) but that didn't work. Express gate's error message occurred while booting "... no express gate installed ..." or similar.
I didn't have a look at the files that were installed to the stick. But I think it was about 300 MB of space used.

You shouldn't have to boot from the stick, the BIOS should find express gate when it first begins POST. I wonder if it's picky about formatting. If the stick was formatted FAT16, maybe you could try formatting it FAT32, and vise-versa.

[Kano]

Well using my method you can boot from usb stick, but i guess the "standard" way is to select express gate in the bios.

[drosky]

Well using my method you can boot from usb stick, but i guess the "standard" way is to select express gate in the bios.

Because of the error message, it sounded like he has a MB that has the express gate hook in the BIOS, so if express gate is installed properly, he should see the express gate menu almost immediately after powering up. One nice thing about the normal way of running express gate is that it runs very early in the POST process. My P5Q-E, for example, takes 25 seconds or so to go through POST to the point where I get my normal GRUB menu (even with "quick boot" turned on), whereas the express gate menu comes up in around 7 seconds or so after pushing the power button.

Asus boards seem to be pretty slow to POST all the way through to a normal boot.

[Kano]

Well found a way to test it with VirtualBox - saidly without network support. You can use a hd image to boot the ce_bz kernel. Also enable the USB support as it will access the usb stick to load the apps. Then you are done! If you already created the test.vmdk just use it ;)

[deanjo]

Heh I like how this thread turned from a warning into a howto. :D

[Kano]

Yes, because I can run it with Vbox now, i figured out, that you have to partition the usb stick if you want to store data. Updated my script that it only uses 220 mb for the system and the rest for the data.

[drosky]

Well found a way to test it with VirtualBox - saidly without network support. You can use a hd image to boot the ce_bz kernel. Also enable the USB support as it will access the usb stick to load the apps. Then you are done! If you already created the test.vmdk just use it ;)

That's cool. Maybe you could build a driver module for the virtual network adapter against the version of the kernel they use (2.6.20) and get networking working.

Also, you don't have to store data only on the USB stick. With a terminal available, I can mount my linux partitions and access my home directory. It's not perfect though, there is no command for adding users, so you have to manually add your user and group to /etc/passwd and /etc/group, then you can su to your username. Could make a script to do all this on startup.

[drosky]

With a terminal available, I can mount my linux partitions and access my home directory.

Express gate represents a security hole. You could put rxvt on a USB stick and have root access to your machine. Probably would only want it enabled on machines that nobody else has physical access to.

Of course, this is no worse of a security hole than machines configured to boot from anything other than the HDD.

[mhilarius]

Hmmm, must of been a mistake with the packaging on your box. Other Asus boards clearly label if Expressgate Light is being used (example below). I would be contacting Asus about that.

http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=3&l2=149&l3=659&l4=0&model=2139&modelmenu=1

OK, in some cases the say, n others they do not.
For example look at the M3N78-VM
http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?modelmenu=1&model=2268&l1=3&l2=149&l3=643&l4=0

Great deal. The board costs around $95
Pretty decent platform, with embedded nVidia video, hybrid SLI support, etc.
The webpage simply says "Instant Internet Access with Express Gate™"
However on setup one finds the usual message about using the installer under Windows.
It IS a ripoff!

[Kano]

As you need an USB stick with unmodded apps you can put the thing on it too. It just needs 240 mb from it. I would not overrate the internal SSD, because it is more easy to mod without. The BIOS hotkey should work with external usb stick too, maybe only on a few ports. If you want you could attach it internally too *g*.

[cobra-kai]

I just bought the M3A78-EM board. On the Asus website, it says nothing about the Express Gate being "Light", and the description of the Express Gate feature says that it is a "unique motherboard built-in OS", see

http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=3&l2=149&l3=639&l4=0&model=2252&modelmenu=1

When I boot, I get the dreaded message about installing Express Gate using the Windows installer. What does this mean? Do I have the onboard SSD or not? I do not have Windows installed on the computer, neither do I want it. If I was able to boot into Windows temporarily, say from a USB stick, could I then install Express Gate to the SSD and then be done with it?

[Kano]

Just use my script in the install onto usb stick section. That emulates the SSD and should work. No Win needed.

[mgc8]

http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=3&l2=149&l3=639&l4=0&model=2252&modelmenu=1
When I boot, I get the dreaded message about installing Express Gate using the Windows installer. What does this mean? Do I have the onboard SSD or not? I do not have Windows installed on the computer, neither do I want it. If I was able to boot into Windows temporarily, say from a USB stick, could I then install Express Gate to the SSD and then be done with it?

From what I learned after browsing several ASUS product pages, if it is not specifically written "Express Gate SSD" then no, you don't have the SSD. The description icon is also different (see P5QDeluxe (http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=3&l2=11&l3=709&l4=0&model=2257&modelmenu=1) for what it looks like when it's "full"). That means the hardware (flash chip) is missing from your board and you need to install EG to the hard-disk from windows. If you still want to use it, follow Kano's adice above. I personally find this completely useless if it's not embedded, so I disabled it and also mailed ASUS about this -- which you could (politely) also do...

[cobra-kai]

Thanks for the replies. After finding the FAQ on ASUS' site, it seems that they changed the name of Express Gate to Express Gate SSD and Express Gate Lite to Express Gate. Very confusing indeed. I'll consider running it off a USB stick, if only for the reason that I had my mind set on this nifty feature.

[Kano]

Well using it from USB stick seems a better idea than using the internal SSD, because you can resize the DVMUSB partition if needed to add more custom apps. Thats impossible for the SSD and testing is much more complicated too - you have to create DFI files all the time.

[cobra-kai]

Well using it from USB stick seems a better idea than using the internal SSD, because you can resize the DVMUSB partition if needed to add more custom apps. Thats impossible for the SSD and testing is much more complicated too - you have to create DFI files all the time.

True. My critique of having a USB stick permanently attached to the computer is one of sheer vanity. Also, allowing your BIOS to start off removable devices might not be for those that are security-minded. But then it seems that activating Express Gate on at least my MB could be just about as bad - it suffices that a USB stick (or any connected mass storage device I suspect) has the SplashTop files on it, and it will allow you to boot off that device. Does anyone know if the SplashTop files have a digital signature that is checked by the BIOS-resident parts of Express Gate?

I completely failed to make a bootable USB stick with Kano's lilo script, btw, and that was on two different USB sticks that have both had Ubuntu and Gentoo LiveCD images and installed systems booted off them. So it was a little bit by chance that I discovered that with an Express Gate (Lite) MB, it is enough just to copy the files from the Express Gate image file to the stick. I guess then that it is a reasonably safe bet that if you made a micro partition (first partition?) on your harddrive (NTFS or FAT, I suppose), and just copied the files into that, you could boot your system from that. Anyone tried that?

One last thing, and I realize I have sadly drifted off topic - the list of keyboard layouts in the Express Gate that I downloaded (1.2.4.0 I think, from the ASUS FTP site) was rather short (US/UK/French/Japanese and a few others). I miss my Swedish letters... Any remedy for this?

[Kano]

You would not need a bootloader on the stick when you can start it via BIOS - it would find it too when you select it.The international support is pretty bad, basically english + chinese is tested only - german is pretty bad supported as well. If it does not boot just try different usb ports, it is usally not the stick, but only a few ports work.

[cobra-kai]

Like I said previously, I wanted to try installing SplashTop on a small HD partition using Linux, and getting my Express Gate (Lite) MB to boot into that (without LILO or GRUB, as you can do with a USB stick + Express Gate Lite MB). Using parts of Kano's script, I simply copied the files from the mounted Express Gate SSD image file to a 1.0GB (overkill, I know) FAT16 partition that I made at the beginning of the HD. This was enough to make the Express Gate BIOS bootloader believe that I had SplashTop installed (showing the splash screen where you can choose to boot into the OS or into SplashTop), but it froze when it tried to boot into SplashTop. Any ideas?

[Kano]

That will _not_ work because it checks for USB only that way. You will find a script for hd install onto a fat32 partition here now:

http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11653