Foxconn Does Hate Linux Support

[phoronix]

Phoronix: Foxconn Does Hate Linux Support

Receiving publicity on SlashDot today is word that Foxconn refuses to support Linux. Foxconn is a large OEM motherboard manufacturer, but according to a thread on the Ubuntu Forums, they refuse to support Linux...

http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=NjYyMA

[_txf_]

It actually appears to be more the case that they are actually sabotaging linux.There are two dsdt tables. Windows gets the working one and linux gets the broken one. The when modified to use the windows table things are magically unbroken...

[Fixxer_Linux]

It's incredible how stupid they can be.
Many thanks to that guy on Ubuntu forum, I'll never go for a Foxconn mobo.

[immudium]

Oh wow. Somehow this information slipped by me and I've come dangerously close to buying Foxconn motherboards in the past. Something to keep in mind going forward and as always I appreciate Phoronix's unique and invaluable perspective on the hardware industry.

[Pickup]

Do you mean Foxconn is deliberately making broken mainboards to unsupport linux? But why?? No, please, don't come out with MS-conspiracy!

So Foxconn does hate linux support? fine. Then linux supporters will hate Foxconn.
And my next mainboard won't be a Foxconn.

[Chewi]

On Linux, the DSDT can be replaced very early in the boot process. Unless they've gone out of their way to prevent this or the bug is so serious that it won't even start the kernel (unlikely) then it should be just a case of fixing the bug. This can be done with Intel's iasl compiler. If the DSDT given to Windows really does work then you could even just replace it with that one.

But meh, I've never even heard of them anyway. Fuck em.

[deanjo]

But meh, I've never even heard of them anyway. Fuck em.

They are only one of the largest OEM motherboard manufacturers around, if not the largest.

[yoshi314]

if that's the new anti-linux microsoft strategy, than i'm really, really scared of what they might pull next. fortuately for me i'm not so wealthy to buy new hardware as soon as it hits the market, so i can always check beforehand how does certain piece of hardware work with linux and decide to buy or not to buy it, based on other's opinion.

crippling the bios so that it doesn't work for other os'es...let's hope other hardware vendors won't follow. and here i thought the times of winmice and winmodems were over.

[_txf_]

Whilst this is nasty linux kernels later than 2.6.24 stop reporting themselves as linux due other bioses bugginess when dealing with linux.

[BlueKoala]

It's always good to know what not to buy.
Now I have a bias against them.
I will tell anyone who asks that their motherboards are buggy and the company refuses to fix their non standard compliant motherboards because it's not financially viable for them to have happy customers if they need to hire an engineer that knows what he's doing to do so.

It's bending the truth, much like Foxconn is doing. =]
I hope the bad rap spreads like wildfire.

[Chewi]

They are only one of the largest OEM motherboard manufacturers around, if not the largest.

Heh okay. I guess their boards for Dell and HP aren't branded under their name? My last machine was a Dell but I swear I've never heard the name before.

[yoshi314]

well they can't really hope to sell any of their mainboards (regardless of model) to be used in server environments, can they ;-)

if they want to stick to vista - so be it. i'll wave them goodbye. btw, i've never heard of that company before. and i surely hope i won't hear about them again.

btw. what happens if you use *bsd with that mainboard?

[deanjo]

Or all of this can be attributed to a innocent BIOS bug and the end user is dealing with a techsupport agent who is giving canned responses instead of dealing with the engineers directly.

[DanL]

Well, at least Foxconn shows its true colors and feelings about the FOSS movement, unlike VIA, which hides behind a mask (that's not quite as opaque as they would like to believe).

[c0un7d0wn]

Remember this billg email about acpi?

http://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowaconsumercase.org/011607/3000/PX03020.pdf (pdf)

[_txf_]

Or all of this can be attributed to a innocent BIOS bug and the end user is dealing with a techsupport agent who is giving canned responses instead of dealing with the engineers directly.

Although it is strange that they would include specific linux functions when they claim linux is not supported, surely it would have been easier not to include a seperate table for linux in the first place? If they got the bios from somewhere else i.e. ami, why would they make the effort to modify it when they could leave it as is and just not answer linux support calls?

But I would agree that the tech support does not know anything (in my experience they never know anything), I wonder if the negative publicity will make them say anything meaningful from a proper source i.e. not gormless tech support.

[deanjo]

Although it is strange that they would include specific linux functions when they claim linux is not supported, surely it would have been easier not to include a seperate table for linux in the first place? If they got the bios from somewhere else i.e. ami, why would they make the effort to modify it when they could leave it as is and just not answer linux support calls?

Perhaps it was on the plan, you have no way of telling if it was completely done by one coder, taken over by another coder, etc etc. Mistakes do happen. If they didn't there wouldn't be BIOS updates to fix bugs period. Hell take a look at pretty much any opensource program, There are hundreds of examples of code that contain incompleted functions.

Some people jump to conspiracy conclusions way to fast instead looking at the most likely reasons to why something happens.

"All other things being equal, the simplest solution is the best."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_Razor

[stan]

I'm going to stay as far away from Foxconn as I can, and will warn other Linux users to do the same. This active aggression and collusion is going to be really useful in an anti-Microsoft suit, especially in Europe and South Korea.

[deanjo]

Some updates in the thread @ ubuntu

HI

just to say as am from Foxconn, No we dont deliberately sabotage the bios
Plus the person who replyed to the email did not understand Linux

but we will have the bios fix sometime next week and at the same time a relook at how we are testing are boards with linux.

since this board should have been tested.

please dont flame me http://ubuntuforums.org/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif

heAlmightyCthulhu am sending a message hope you will reply

thanks


UK Technical Manager


but i think the board in the early stages had problem with acpi for vista and was fixed.
but so i think your seeing the remain of the tested code, which should have be removed.

not the first time i've had to have acpi fixed on are boards
and will not be the lasthttp://ubuntuforums.org/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif

This is a more realistic scenario then a company "sabotaging" a product. Notice the response was within 24 hours. Honestly, some people have to start looking at situations with a level head.

[_txf_]

Well that probably answers that. Either way problems like this won't occur to users with kernels >2.6.24

However I still think the whole noise was more or less justified, otherwise I doubt anyone from foxconn would bother replying.

[mlau]

I highly recommend everybody read these 2 posts of SuSE's Thomas Renninger to the LKML and the PDF linked to inside:
http://lkml.org/lkml/2008/7/24/291
http://lkml.org/lkml/2008/7/24/286

It's most likely not deliberate malice on FoxConn's side, but simple fallout from working around the various Windows ACPI implementation bugs
and Linux' transparence wrt. ACPI OS identification, and the general incompetence of BIOS programmers (foxconns apparently
suck more than the rest)

[Kano]

Pretty interesting. Also the patch, one user already had issues like that with kernel 2.6.26. Btw. it would be really hard to avoid the OEM boards when you look at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn

Even iPhones and gameing consoles *g*

[Dragoran]

This blog entry contains some useful info:
http://www.advogato.org/person/mjg59/diary.html?start=147

[Svartalf]

Heh... I kind of avoid Foxconn's motherboards. The connectors, etc. they make are "okay", but the motherboards they've made have been sub-par from the first days they started showing up on the scene here in the US.

It's what you reach for when you're trying to eke out every penny out of a customer and don't give a damn if you screw 'em over to do it. ;)

[edit]
Heh... That'd be the motherboards that are branded with their name, apparently... Seems Intel farms out the mobo stuff they put their name on to be built by Foxconn according to the Wikipedia article. I've had few issues with the Intel boards and much, much more with the ones with Foxconn's name emblazoned everywhere.

[deanjo]

Ya foxconn has long made the boards for intel as well I believe they also own Leadtek a company who designs many of the reference boards for Nvidia. Of which manufacturers such as Gainward, EVGA, XFX, PNY, etc also follow for designs of the MB / GC.

[NeoBrain]

Just for anyone who doesn't read /. regularly :D
http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=5507917&postcount=1

[yoshi314]

cool, looks like somebody actually cared.

[deanjo]

So it turns out that the "Foxconn" conspiracy was actually AMI's fault with their reference BIOS. The same issue has been found on MSI and Asus boards as well.

Foxconn Does Hate Linux Support Myth busted.

http://izanbardprince.wordpress.com/2008/07/28/foxconn-says-acpi-issues-are-amis-fault-is-having-them-repair-the-code/

http://izanbardprince.wordpress.com/2008/07/31/more-emails-and-a-phone-call-with-carl-brunning/