KDE 4.1 Released, KDE 4.2 In January

[phoronix]

Phoronix: KDE 4.1 Released, KDE 4.2 In January

The KDE community has today announced the release of KDE 4.1, which comes as the first major update to the KDE 4 code-base. KDE 4.0 was introduced earlier this year at a Google-hosted KDE release event...

http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=NjYzMA

[stan]

The screenshots look wonderful. Just imagine how good KDE would be if it had the support of RedHat and Canonical... It's sad these supposedly FOSS corporations choosing an inferior product (GTK/GNOME) simply so that unscrupulous ISVs can leech off the LGPL'ed frameworks without sharing anything back.

[Vadi]

Wow. I was gonna say nice going KDE, but as it still has it's share of die-hard fanatics claiming all other products are inferior and no DE should be used for commercial purposes...

Well, I certainly don't want to be part of that crowd.

[d2kx]

I can see at least Canonical supporting KDE more and more and more in the future, I'd even say there's a chance that KDE could get the default desktop by KDE 4.3 or so (@Michael: yeeeeeeees!).

Amarok, K3b, KOffice, Kaffeine, Kopete, Konversation are not finally released for KDE4 yet, but they should at the time KDE 4.2 arrives (maybe even at the time the October Distributions arrive?). And at THAT time, really no one should continue hurting himself with using that other brown thing, I am not going to say its name, so it's hard to find out what I'm talking about (or not)...

[TechMage89]

Selling closed-source software is not an unparalleled evil, as much as Stallman would like you to believe it is.

It is essential for any basic platform/api to be totally free to develop on (Windows and Mac OSX both are, I might add.) As much as I am impressed by KDE's accomplishments, and believe it has, in many ways, a superior design to Gnome, I don't believe that while QT is GPL'd, it will ever gain widespread acceptance. Therefore, in spite of it's technical inferiority, I think that Gnome will continue to dominate.

I think if Nokia were to LGPL QT (for example, in order to promote their phones, which is supposedly the reason they bought Trolltech in the first place), KDE would quickly become the favored DE.

[stan]

Wow. I was gonna say nice going KDE, but as it still has it's share of die-hard fanatics claiming all other products are inferior and no DE should be used for commercial purposes...


You are deliberately trying to confuse "commercial" with "proprietary/closed source". There are plenty of open source applications and operating systems that cost a ton of money, thus making them "commercial". In fact, the Free Software Foundation encourages FOSS developers to make money off their software: Selling Free Software (http://www.fsf.org/licensing/essays/selling.html)

[Vadi]

I'm not confusing anything, because proprietary/closed source can be commercial (and free) too. Thanks!

[yoshi314]

I don't believe that while QT is GPL'd, it will ever gain widespread acceptance.but it has widespread acceptance...

[Zhick]

Downloading and compiling right now. <3 Gentoo

I don't expect to experience any differences to 4.0.99 though since that one was already working realy well fore me.

@d2kx: Kopete has already been released for kde-4.0 . But you're right about the others. But their kde-3 versions work without a problem in kde 4, so that's not so much of a show-stopper.

[Melcar]

I remember reading somewhere that KDE has a bigger user base, but that GNOME is more accepted by the big distros.

[_txf_]

Qt has widespread acceptance as it is dual licensed. For proprietary apps you have to pay, but if you want to develop OS apps its free. It is the best of both worlds.

Add that to the fact that you can practically make an app that compiles and works (mostly) an all 3 major oses...Many kde apps compiled and worked out of the box on osx and windows and ultimately is something that could bring many more developers to linux.

Urgh didn't want to come across as a salesman, but ultimately it works out better than gtk (which suffers somewhat from lack of resources).

[deanjo]

I remember reading somewhere that KDE has a bigger user base, but that GNOME is more accepted by the big distros.

Last year was the first year that gnome lead KDE according to the 2007 linux survey. No doubt that can easily change from year to year, with the release of KDE 4.1 it could change quite quickly.

http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS8454912761.html

[_txf_]

Last year was the first year that gnome lead KDE according to the 2007 linux survey. No doubt that can easily change from year to year, with the release of KDE 4.1 it could change quite quickly.

http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS8454912761.html

I suspect the drop in kde userbase was probably the lack of major development on 3.5. Having said that most major distros pushing gnome (minus suse) probably means that gnome will hsve a larger userbase in general.

[sundown]

Last year was the first year that gnome lead KDE according to the 2007 linux survey. No doubt that can easily change from year to year, with the release of KDE 4.1 it could change quite quickly.

http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS8454912761.html

I dunno, the polls at Linuxquestions are always won by KDE, for instance.

[deanjo]

I suspect the drop in kde userbase was probably the lack of major development on 3.5. Having said that most major distros pushing gnome (minus suse) probably means that gnome will hsve a larger userbase in general.


I wouldn't say suse pushes KDE as it is neutral, Gnome or KDE take your pick (or others if you wish as it doesn't default to any). Suse just does a lot more development on KDE then other distro's. Once you get away from the Redhat/Debian(ubuntu) clones you actually have quite a few distros that default to KDE, such as Mepis, Mandriva, PCLinuxOS, Slackware, BlueWhite, Knoppix, Vector, etc etc.

[_txf_]

I wouldn't say suse pushes KDE as it is neutral, Gnome or KDE take your pick

neither did I :p , Just said that out of the majors it doesn't push gnome
i.e the distros that get the most coverage. (If novell had their own way they'd be pushing solely gnome too)

[RealNC]

I hope this will hit Gentoo's portage soon. Not being able to use Compiz is a drawback, but KDE 4 compositing also provides for an elegant working environment too.

Hm, KDE vs Gnome again... I feel Gnome is restricting me. There are many places where it tells me "we don't let you customize this and that because we don't want to confuse you". Well, KDE lets me customize this and that without confusing me. :)

[Vadi]

KDE is great for people who like to tinker a lot of with their system and customize every single aspect.

It falls down pretty badly when the same people try to apply it to people who *don't* like to tinker with their system, but simply work, play, or do whatever else an os is designed for.

Then there are those said gnome people who think since they don't tinker with their system much, and they achieve great productivity on their gnome system, think kde people should be using it...

And it goes in circles like that. Only thing that might break this cycle is that KDE's top usability engineer just finding out (http://weblog.obso1337.org/2008/implicit-save/) about implicit save option and thinking that it "makes a lot of sense and makes the configuration and interaction with options much more natural."

So you never know what future has in store =)

[RealNC]

I hate that feature. When I select a theme just to see its description and preview, Gnome applies it immediately. That's just wrong.

[Vadi]

I know eh? This is one of the fundamental differences that sets KDE and Gnome design apart. The fact that KDE's top (at least in the press, everywhere) usability person a) never seen of it until recently, and b) likes it upon seeing it also bring some interesting thoughts :)

[stan]

I have to agree with those who say KDE is lacking in usability. While there are plenty of users who acknowledge that KDE usability sucks, not enough are able to become developers and make the changes themselves. Which is why KDE needs more corporate support.

[RealNC]

There are plenty of users who also claim that Gnome usability sucks. Linus Torvalds is probably the most famous of them (I remember a flame war of sorts where Linus almost outright said "Gnome sucks").

Usability is subjective. There will always be people that find shortcomings in *any* environment. If I try to think about what I don't like in KDE, the result are shortcomings in things that are not part of it: Thunderbird, Firefox, Compiz.

As for going political, I like that KDE is based upon something that is fully GPL instead of LGPL. I support the viral nature of the GPL and its mentality. LGPL is a compromise for me.

[jeffro-tull]

Neither of the big desktop environments come out of the box just the way I like them. The thing is, with Gnome, it seems I have to fight tooth and nail to get it where I want it - With KDE (3.* and 4.*, >=4.0.3) it's just a few simple clicks away.

I'm excited. I was playing with /trunk up until beta 2, but a hard drive failure and laziness kept me from going further. I liked what I saw, and, at least for me, KDE4 is finally ready for prime time. I can't wait to leave Konqueror 3 behind me (it's been good to me, but it's edges are rough and there's no hiding them). Think I'll start compiling tomorrow.

[Melcar]

It's usable, but still nothing to rave about. There are still many things that you can't easily change. Having no proper front ends for laptop power management tools really sucks too. The composition manager is nice, but it "feels" heavier than Compiz. Still, I think one could easily use it as a 24/7 DE, but I personally will still stick to 3.5 for a while.

[deanjo]

I have to agree with those who say KDE is lacking in usability. While there are plenty of users who acknowledge that KDE usability sucks, not enough are able to become developers and make the changes themselves. Which is why KDE needs more corporate support.

Heh, and on the other end many others feel the exact opposite. Gnome I find personally horrid at usability. There are not to many things I change from the defaults on KDE (detailed list view instead of annoying icon view or classic menu vs the new kicker menu for example). While I can appreciate the "less is more" philosophy of gnome, it becomes too big of a barrier for me in it's restrictions to the point where it actually is frustrating and painful to use, leaving me with the impression that it would be better suited for my kids toy computer then a real working environment.

[mmmbop]

It's funny.. we have people complaining that Gnome isn't customizable enough, while KDE is too customizable. There are people perfectly content at both ends of the spectrum. Imagine if desktop Linux only had one choice. It's a shame that development is split between two camps, but we are probably gaining more this way!

Re: KDE 4.1.
It is a huge improvement over 4.0, but there is still work to be done, and the Nvidia drivers need to be fixed yesterday. It is ready for tinkers (not just developers), but not ready for the masses yet.

[grigi]

KDE has too much options? I can't find enough!

Jokes aside, I really hate the way that Gnome cuts my productivity. It's even worse than Windows.

There is some very nice ideas in gnome, but the fact that my dual-core system feels horribly sluggish (even when not using compiz) compared to every other DE I have ever tried... well, there ya go.

I haven't looked at KDE4.1 yet, but 4.0 had some promise, but actually disappointed me. And still no ports of the best application ever (Amarok)!!!

[Vadi]

I don't use KDE as my main DE, but do use some KDE programs. The 3 issues I've been having a) the input line randomly playing piano sounds when I type in it, b) phonon telling me that a device failed and it's going to fallback to the same one, and c) knotify4 growing up to 100mb all were not fixed.

So... it came, and went for me. :(

(oh yeah, and now I get to officially laugh that KDE 4 has no finished HIG. Haha)

[RealNC]

Imagine if desktop Linux only had one choice.
Then it would be more popular. Iniform GUI (like Windows and OS X). Still, that would not be enough since we also need a uniform way of doing other stuff too (installing packages, changing system settings).

With Linux like it is today, it will be "not ready for the desktop" forever. See, my grandma doesn't want to know the advantages of deb/rpm/portage/Gnome/KDE. She wants to click buttons and have that email sent to my grandpa.

[Vadi]

That's why you don't tell them about deb/rpm/portage/Gnome/KDE.

Install whatever you like, and that's it. It's that simple.

[Melcar]

... b) phonon telling me that a device failed and it's going to fallback to the same one, ...

I hate that :mad:. How the hell do you turn it off? Every time I boot up my laptop sound goes haywire because of it. Sure, I can mute the thing (KDE4 has problems with the media keys on my laptop as well :(), but I hate having to see that pop up every time... it ruins the experience you know.

KDE has too much options? I can't find enough!...


Well KDE4 definitely doesn't have enough yet. I looks like a KDE desktop (once I take Oxygen out, it looks to Gnomish :p), and it feels like a KDE desktop, but it acts like some sort of XFCE/KDE bastard child; it's like I'm in KDE bizarro world or something. Oh, and the menu; damn, that thing is annoying (you can't change it either).

And still no ports of the best application ever (Amarok)!!!No suitable burning software either. Hate having to install older KDE3 libraries just to be able to use K3B.

[killsudo]

In kde4 > System Settings > Sounds do you have more then 1 sound output device? I have found on my Intel laptops I need to make my default output the #1 device for all sound output and that message goes away. I have both analog and digital options.

[Melcar]

In kde4 > System Settings > Sounds do you have more then 1 sound output device? I have found on my Intel laptops I need to make my default output the #1 device for all sound output and that message goes away. I have both analog and digital options.


It lists two. They both have the same description, just that one works and the other doesn't. Even if I set the one that works as default, Phonon would keep giving me that popup warning at startup.
I still have to thinker with KDE4 a bit more, it's just that the lack of customization options in some areas depressed me, so I resorted to heavy drinking that night :(.

[RealNC]

That's why you don't tell them about deb/rpm/portage/Gnome/KDE.

Install whatever you like, and that's it. It's that simple.

It's not that simple. Simple is googling for the software, going to its page, downloading it and running its automagic installer (Windows) or drag&drop the icon (OS X). That's how it should work. Firefox 3 comes out, you download it and install it. What's the deal with the repos and unstable? Firefox 3 final is stable, why does Linux think it's unstable?

Note that the above questions aren't mine. ;) If Linux gets to the point where there's a uniform standard for all of this, then it's ready for the desktop.

[deanjo]

It's not that simple. Simple is googling for the software, going to its page, downloading it and running its automagic installer (Windows) or drag&drop the icon (OS X). That's how it should work.

http://www.packagekit.org/ <--- that is being addressed

As well there are other distro's out there that utilize 1-click installs through other means.


Firefox 3 comes out, you download it and install it. What's the deal with the repos and unstable? Firefox 3 final is stable, why does Linux think it's unstable?
Stable in that term refers more to the official package selection for a particular version of distro release. It doesn't necessarily refer to the individual package. openSUSE 11 for example has FF3 marked as stable.

[RealNC]

That's my point exactly. "openSUSE does this, Ubuntu does that". When you go various websites software projects, you get things like "click here for Windows, click here for Debian, there for Ubuntu, click over there for openSUSE".

We need a "click here for Linux". Download, install, run. Not repositories. I can hardly imagine this is ever gonna happen. Not that it's important for me, mind you. But "ready for the desktop" means "ready for the masses."

[deanjo]

That's my point exactly. "openSUSE does this, Ubuntu does that". When you go various websites software projects, you get things like "click here for Windows, click here for Debian, there for Ubuntu, click over there for openSUSE".

We need a "click here for Linux". Download, install, run. Not repositories. I can hardly imagine this is ever gonna happen. Not that it's important for me, mind you. But "ready for the desktop" means "ready for the masses."


That is exactly what PackageKit addresses. Repositories are no different then having to hunt and download off the net for windows.

[_txf_]

That is exactly what PackageKit addresses. Repositories are no different then having to hunt and download off the net for windows.

what packagekit HOPES to address. It is a worthwhilde idea, whether in practice it works is another question as distro repos do have variation in version and package selection.

Something good to complement packagekit would be something like klik but I haven't heard much from the project recently

[Vadi]

Firefox 3 comes out, you do your updates, and you're fine. Or you install it from Add/Remove.

You don't need to hunt down the website, select your language, download, and install.

It's all about the presentation. If you present umpteen options, obviously, they'll be confused. If you present one option, it'll be all good.

[RealNC]

Firefox 3 comes out, you do your updates, and you're fine. Or you install it from Add/Remove.

You don't need to hunt down the website, select your language, download, and install

Nope. You can't install unless it is put into your distro's repository. On Windows you get it immediately. On Linux you feel like a second-class citizen and you have to wait. Same goes for all other software.

[Vadi]

No, the same doesn't go for other software. Because some software actually care about this Linux users and bother to package it.

[curaga]

Some apps offer static builds for a quick run on any distro.
Firefox and OO.o have their distro-agnostic packs.

And there's nothing we can't compile :p