Red Hat's Plymouth Sees New Work

[phoronix]

Phoronix: Red Hat's Plymouth Sees New Work

Not a lot of work has gone into Red Hat's Plymouth project since the release of Fedora 10, but now in the middle of the development cycle of Fedora 11 we are seeing some new work emerge. Plymouth is a boot splash program that leverages kernel mode-setting to provide a rich, flicker-free boot experience...

http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=NzExOA

[JeanPaul145]

For some reason I read "Red Hat's Plymouth sees New York" the first time...
It was only after I read the article that I realized it is "New Work", not "New York" :P

[Pfanne]

For some reason I read "Red Hat's Plymouth sees New York" the first time...
It was only after I read the article that I realized it is "New Work", not "New York" :P

same here...
when i read the descritption of the new plugin i thought, when is all this supposed to happen when we are working so hard to have insant-on computers...

[JeanPaul145]

same here...
when i read the descritption of the new plugin i thought, when is all this supposed to happen when we are working so hard to have insant-on computers...

I'm thinking it will be like an extended lightning flash then, much like the mode setting when it's done outside the kernel. Only then, the flash consists of nice gfx :)

[AliBaba]

Atm there's not really a lot of documentation out there (I've read doc in the git tree), so excuse me, if I ask:

Which files exactly would one have to tune to get it to work with let's say Debian?


I'd like to give it a try (in fact I've got modesetting working here nearly without issues) but I realize that changing the boot-process of a system doesn't seem to be an easy task (at least if you are not involved into such stuff).


Are there any plans for Debian?
(No, I'm not asking about Ubuntu and their upstart.)

[sreyan]

Atm there's not really a lot of documentation out there (I've read doc in the git tree), so excuse me, if I ask:

Which files exactly would one have to tune to get it to work with let's say Debian?


I'd like to give it a try (in fact I've got modesetting working here nearly without issues) but I realize that changing the boot-process of a system doesn't seem to be an easy task (at least if you are not involved into such stuff).


Are there any plans for Debian?
(No, I'm not asking about Ubuntu and their upstart.)

Well you'll need a kernel and graphics card that plays nice with KMS. This basically means you'll need the latest kernel and either an intel or ati graphics card.

Upstart is actually a replacement for the SystemV init system. Plymouth is more parallel to ubuntu's Usplash.

[sreyan]

In many ways it feels as though plymouth is a very small upside from kms. The wayland project on the other hand seems like it can make a real difference in the users experience after the brief boot window.

[aaaantoine]

Ideally, the transition from the boot splash animation to the login screen should be as seamless as possible.

Will KMS utilize more graphics modes so that we don't have, for example, a 1024x768 splash screen followed by a 1280x800 X Server login screen?

[sreyan]

Well KMS certainly is seemless, but my understanding is the display modes don't necessarily need to change.

One really nice change will be running X without giving it root priviledges.

[JeanPaul145]

Ideally, the transition from the boot splash animation to the login screen should be as seamless as possible.

Will KMS utilize more graphics modes so that we don't have, for example, a 1024x768 splash screen followed by a 1280x800 X Server login screen?

From what I've seen so far, KMS (and therefore Plymouth) sets, among other things, the resolution to the preferred one right away, which means that once that has been done, all the things (Plymouth, X, and then fullblown GDM) are booted and displayed without any flickering / screen resolution changes.

[curaga]

Was this not already possible?

I mean having the right mode already set by grub2, then having the FB use the exact same mode, and then X too. It would result in no flicker, as trying to change the mode to the same one should just skip it, and to do this only slight hacking is needed (to get FB and grub to use the exact same timings as X).

I remember reading a blog post just about this - he also had a bootsplash set up to look like a KDE desktop, with boot messages scrolling in a pic of KTerminal (or whatever is the KDE terminal app), so the transition to desktop looked pretty seamless.

[Gentooer]

I still don't get what the big deal is about boot splash programs. I get from grub to a login prompt in 3-4 seconds. Who cares if a bunch of messages scroll across the screen? The only reason I would reboot anyway is to load a new kernel.

[elanthis]

Was this not already possible?

I mean having the right mode already set by grub2, then having the FB use the exact same mode, and then X too. It would result in no flicker, as trying to change the mode to the same one should just skip it, and to do this only slight hacking is needed (to get FB and grub to use the exact same timings as X).

Nope. First, the FB drivers are very limited, and can only support VESA modes iirc. I know the FB driver can't set my LCD's native mode.

Second, setting the mode again is not necessarily flicker-free on all hardware. Making it absolutely flicker-free everywhere requires not actually changing the mode, which requires X to know what mode it's in when it starts, which generally isn't particularly easy when the mode is set by the FB driver and then X wants to use its own mode-setting code and has no way to query the current mode...

KMS resolves all those problems, and Plymouth as a result is far simpler as it does not require trying to juggle GRUB, FB, and Xorg display settings (which might not even be compatible).

[curaga]

Many of the accelerated FB drivers have more than just VESA.
Yes, I do realize having a completed KMS-Plymoth combo is going to work on more hw and possibly better - it's just that claiming this is entirely new is not true.

[whizse]

[...]
Are there any plans for Debian?
(No, I'm not asking about Ubuntu and their upstart.)

One Debian Developer have expressed an interest in packaging it;
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=506899

[AliBaba]

Upstart is actually a replacement for the SystemV init system. Plymouth is more parallel to ubuntu's Usplash.
Yeah, sure. I meant you need to integrate it into your boot process - which means SysV for Debian and Upstart for Ubuntu.


Will KMS utilize more graphics modes so that we don't have, for example, a 1024x768 splash screen followed by a 1280x800 X Server login screen?
Well, as far as I know, there is no possibility to configure that atm, but with KMS my system boots at 1440x900 (the panel's native).
So yes, if you have an LCD-panel, Plymouth should run at the desired resolution.

[lykowdk]

I think it would be an interesting project to add fb based egl support to Plymouth.
OpenGL rendered bootsplash anyone? :cool:

[curaga]

Didn't directfb offer opengl, and also have a boot splash solution?

[lykowdk]

Didn't directfb offer opengl, and also have a boot splash solution?

Interesting.. Would you know if it is HW accelerated OpenGL? I thought the DirectFB OpenGL was software only.

[curaga]

It appears to have both, Mesa software rendering or hw accel via DRI. However I haven't used it, just stumbled upon :)

[elanthis]

DirectFB has yet another set of drivers (in addition to the kernel drivers, the Xorg drivers, and the Mesa drivers) which are naturally incomplete.

DirectFBGL claims to use Mesa/DRI, but there is little to no information about it on the website (all the links from the DirectFBGL introduction page are broken).

DirectFB is a PERFECT example of why KMS/GEM/DRI2/Gallium/etc. are awesome. It removes the need for the DirectFB team to maintain yet another set of (incomplete and buggy) drivers.

[Martinx]

DirectFB has yet another set of drivers (in addition to the kernel drivers, the Xorg drivers, and the Mesa drivers) which are naturally incomplete.

DirectFBGL claims to use Mesa/DRI, but there is little to no information about it on the website (all the links from the DirectFBGL introduction page are broken).

DirectFB is a PERFECT example of why KMS/GEM/DRI2/Gallium/etc. are awesome. It removes the need for the DirectFB team to maintain yet another set of (incomplete and buggy) drivers.

You know when the DirectFB will benefit from the new GEM/KMS drivers?

I would like to see the DirectFB running at full speed on my Linux 2.6.31 with the new GEM/KSM drivers!!

Cheers!

[nanonyme]

same here...
when i read the descritption of the new plugin i thought, when is all this supposed to happen when we are working so hard to have insant-on computers...We won't have instant-on computers for a long time unless you are resuming from suspend. It's mostly a matter on what you want to look at during the twenty or so seconds during the boot imo. It's not like you couldn't get rid of the graphical boot things in Fedora trivially.

[nanonyme]

Will KMS utilize more graphics modes so that we don't have, for example, a 1024x768 splash screen followed by a 1280x800 X Server login screen?This of it this way: X server uses KMS to set display resolution. KMS will have all graphics modes that X server will have, no more, no less.

[bridgman]

The idea with KMS is not *more* modes, but the ability to go into the desired mode very early in the boot cycle and stay there right through X initialization and ongoing use of the system.