Battle For Wesnoth Gets New Campaign, Graphics

[phoronix]

Phoronix: Battle For Wesnoth Gets New Campaign, Graphics

For those interested in turn-based strategy games, Battle For Wesnoth 1.6 is now available on Linux and other supported platforms. This major update to Battle For Wesnoth brings a new campaign (called The Legend of Wesmere), many multi-player improvements, improved game graphics, new terrain types, user-interface improvements, and an improved map editor. More information on this open-source turn-based strategy game update can be found at Wesnoth.org...

http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=NzE1OQ

[ethana2]

I, of course, would have preferred a .deb link next to the .exe and .dmg, and, in my cynical fashion, interpret the more obfuscated route to obtaining it to be either an expression of their wish for OS X to remain the face of unix on the desktop or their denial of the fact that Ubuntu simply is linux today.

All the linux users I meet at school, at church, wherever else I am, they don't use Fedora, they don't use SuSE, they don't use Mandriva, etc. They all use Ubuntu, except my friend Justin who is a Kubuntu user. Still, different DE, same OS. And from Google:
http://www.google.com/trends?q=apple%2C+ubuntu%2C+fedora%2C+suse%2C+debi an

Should look like this:

==Download==
Windows (msi) _x86_ _x86-64_
Mac (pkg) _intel_ _PPC_
*ubuntu (deb) _x86_ _x86-64_ _other_
_Other systems_
_Source code_

==Repositories==
_apt_
_fink_
YaST and Yum repos awaiting sponsor

Though really, if they wanted to throw rpm there too, can't say I'd mind that much-- just as long as they don't use its existence as an excuse to hide the .deb away somewhere.

[ivanovic]

Why should we hide anything? And for Linux there is the source download (even listed first!), this leaves you without any problems with your package manager. ;)

Beside this: you can get the debs via debian, they are already included in debian experimental for some days. Our Debian packager also currently tries to still have it slip into 9.04, not sure if it will work out though...

[ethana2]

Why should we hide anything? And for Linux there is the source download (even listed first!), this leaves you without any problems with your package manager. ;)

Beside this: you can get the debs via debian, they are already included in debian experimental for some days. Our Debian packager also currently tries to still have it slip into 9.04, not sure if it will work out though...

Compiling code is a sin. Aside from wasting energy, wasting time, and the fact that it NEVER works (different reason each time), I refuse to install from source just because it doesn't make proper use of my package manager, which happens to be the third best thing about my OS in the first place, the single greatest factor in my ditching Windows, and the main reason I prefer it over Mac OS 10.

I hope this does get into 9.04. Truth be told, if I ever do really start playing it, I'm probably just going to use whatever version is given me by Apps > Add, so, whatever they can do there is good.

[Mithrandir]

Compiling code is a sin. Aside from wasting energy, wasting time, and the fact that it NEVER works (different reason each

Developers write Wesnoth without compiling :), because they are unable to compile it.

time), I refuse to install from source just because it doesn't make proper use of my package manager, which happens to be the third best thing about my OS in the first place, the single greatest factor in my ditching Windows, and the main reason I prefer it over Mac OS 10.

I hope this does get into 9.04. Truth be told, if I ever do really start playing it, I'm probably just going to use whatever version is given me by Apps > Add, so, whatever they can do there is good.

[ethana2]

Killing people is a sin too, but the actions select few who have chosen to serve their countries in roles that mandate it on the front lines, many do not object to.

That is the role of the Free Software developer.

Actually to qualify things well, since I did mention church, know that I'm generalizing quite a bit. I mean it's a shame. A dirty, dirty shame. Not always the same as sin, but always unfortunate, especially when it's not necessary. With me and my sheltered, safe life, I have the privilege of abhorring end user code compilation to the degree many unfortunate people view the taking of life they must see all around them. I've chosen a few causes to stand up for and this one may not be the most significant, or the most noble, but it's the one I'm most equipped to fight for-- that of Freedom in Software.

[bulletxt]

I, of course, would have preferred a .deb link next to the .exe and .dmg, and, in my cynical fashion, interpret the more obfuscated route to obtaining it to be either an expression of their wish for OS X to remain the face of unix on the desktop or their denial of the fact that Ubuntu simply is linux today.



No one in the Linux community will ever accept that Linux, for desktop users, means = Ubuntu.

There are a lot of reasons why this won't ever happen. Some reasons can be justified, others can't.

At least for me, until they ignore this Windows will always be easier to use. And even if I don't have problems compiling this sofware, I simply won't do it. I'de rather go out and pay 30$ for a commercial game that works out of the box.

[Mithrandir]

Ubuntu packages:
https://launchpad.net/~stikonas/+archive/ppa

[RobbieAB]

I refuse to install from source just because it doesn't make proper use of my package manager.

Which incidentally is why most projects distribute code in source form. Which .deb platform should they target? Which .rpm platform should they target? The best people to compile code for your system are yourself, and your distribution maintainers. As they don't suffer from a "hide the source" requirement, it is easier to distribute source code.

There are places withing the FS tree where a package manager is not supposed to touch, specifically so that you can install stuff outside it's control safely. /usr/local/ springs to mind...

[ethana2]

"Which .deb platform should they target?"
Ubuntu.
"Which .rpm platform should they target?"
$ alien. (I kid, but worry about that later.)

"Ubuntu packages:
https://launchpad.net/~stikonas/+archive/ppa"

I know I can get them if I look, and that's not a problem for me, what I take issue with most is them giving OS X more preferred treatment than Ubuntu.

Heck, I'd be probably be almost fine with something like this:

==Downloads==
_Windows_
_Decent Operating Systems_
_Source Code_

[Svartalf]

I know I can get them if I look, and that's not a problem for me, what I take issue with most is them giving OS X more preferred treatment than Ubuntu.

You know... It's because there's ONE target to hit with it on the packaging, etc.

You DO realize that if they did a .deb, then you'd also have to do an .rpm, and a Conary build, etc. Because if they don't do all of that, there'll be people just like you with the other distributions complaining just like you're doing now.

You're tilting at Windmills on this one, I'm afraid. And this is a FOSS program for all intents and purposes... Heh... Imagine MY fun with all the closed source stuff I'm porting. ;)

[ethana2]

You know... It's because there's ONE target to hit with it on the packaging, etc.

You DO realize that if they did a .deb, then you'd also have to do an .rpm, and a Conary build, etc. Because if they don't do all of that, there'll be people just like you with the other distributions complaining just like you're doing now.

You're tilting at Windmills on this one, I'm afraid. And this is a FOSS program for all intents and purposes... Heh... Imagine MY fun with all the closed source stuff I'm porting. ;)

If they have the resources to do all kinds of crazy ports, that's fine-- But Windows has 90% market, mac OS has 9%, and Ubuntu/Kubuntu/Xubuntu/Edubuntu/UbuntuStudio/UbuntuNetbook/UbuntuChristian/UbuntuMuslim/UbuntuSatanic/Fluxbuntu/WhatsherBuntu/MyBuntu/YourBuntu/Debian has .9%
Turns out one file covers them all, because dependencies are all handled, you know, by apt. That leaves 0.1% of people having to click on to the next page, and us .9% can make more noise than that .1% any day of the week.

[bulletxt]

You know... It's because there's ONE target to hit with it on the packaging, etc.

You DO realize that if they did a .deb, then you'd also have to do an .rpm, and a Conary build, etc. Because if they don't do all of that, there'll be people just like you with the other distributions complaining just like you're doing now.

You're tilting at Windmills on this one, I'm afraid. And this is a FOSS program for all intents and purposes... Heh... Imagine MY fun with all the closed source stuff I'm porting. ;)

I'm sorry but you are ignoring that Ubuntu in the normal desktop area = Linux. You can't treat Ubuntu like all other distros. And you can't say this is an unfair thing, becuase releasing packages for Ubuntu means making a favour to all users. And since most of them use Ubuntu, you are doing a favour to most users.

I think it's very stupid to ignore that Ubuntu is the de-facto standard in the desktop area... sometimes it seems Linux software developers don't want to see someone winning over the other and close their eyes treating Ubuntu like all other distros... this is totaly close-minded + ignoring-users interest.
Is it so hard to accept that Ubuntu, in the good and bad, is just the best Linux Distro for normal desktop users? It seems it is. Continue like this, but then don't complain if someone says Windows is 1000000 times easier to use than "Linux", because it is. 99% of people don't even know what the word "sources" means, do you know this?

[ethana2]

Continue like this, but then don't complain if someone says Windows is 1000000 times easier to use than "Linux", because it is.

I disagree vehemently with that claim, but if I just imagine you saying 'Mac OS X' instead of Windows, I can live with it. (arguably true because of this very kind of thing)

Linux is not a platform, it is a kernel, and if Ubuntu switched kernels tomorrow, I'm pretty sure linux would get kicked down from third to fourth in desktop market share. That happens to be the way I already think of it. I NEVER tell people about linux, just as I don't tell them about gnu, gnome, apt, or pulseaudio, CoreImage, Cocoa, XNU/mach/darwin, CoreAnimation or--oops, wrong OS.. (But who cares anyways?) You won't catch me going anywhere, however, without my ubuntu hoodie.
https://usshop.ubuntu.com/product.php?code=09%2014001BN&catid=1

[bulletxt]

Please note that I put the word Linux under " " :) I didn't mean Linux as a kernel but Linux = Ubuntu = an entire operating system including apps and GUIs that can be compared for ex. to Windows.

[ethana2]

Please note that I put the word Linux under " " :) I didn't mean Linux as a kernel but Linux = Ubuntu = an entire operating system including apps and GUIs that can be compared for ex. to Windows.

The sum of the several most popular gnu/linux based desktop operating systems, yes, I get you. I'm just saying that all the distros of significance are easier to use than Windows, because xfce, KDE, and Gnome are all better than Explorer.

[Joe Sixpack]

"Which .deb platform should they target?"
Ubuntu.
"Which .rpm platform should they target?"
$ alien. (I kid, but worry about that later.)

"Ubuntu packages:
https://launchpad.net/~stikonas/+archive/ppa"

I know I can get them if I look, and that's not a problem for me, what I take issue with most is them giving OS X more preferred treatment than Ubuntu.

Heck, I'd be probably be almost fine with something like this:

==Downloads==
_Windows_
_Decent Operating Systems_
_Source Code_


I completely disagree. They shouldn't target anything or anyone. Like someone else said, they provide source code for a reason. If your distro doesn't maintain an up to date repository, then switch distros. SUSE always keeps a relatively current game repository.

I, of course, would have preferred a .deb link next to the .exe and .dmg, and, in my cynical fashion, interpret the more obfuscated route to obtaining it to be either an expression of their wish for OS X to remain the face of unix on the desktop or their denial of the fact that Ubuntu simply is linux today.

As a Linux user, that is some very dangerous logic you're using there. What if people just accepted the fact that "Windows simply is computing today"? Or decided to center everything around rendering for IE because "Internet Explorer is browsing today"? We as Linux users would be screwed. Knowing this, I wonder how could you bring that divisive thinking into the OSS community. They shouldn't show preferential treatment towards anyone. Provide the source code, and if your distro doesn't keep an up to date repository, then again - switch distros.

There is speculation as to why some people don't like Ubuntu. As good as a distro as it is (I rather like it), it also manages to create some spoiled and lazy users. This self righteous feeling of entitlement for Ubuntu is completely insane (and rather annoying I might add...)

[ethana2]

I completely disagree. They shouldn't target anything or anyone. Like someone else said, they provide source code for a reason. If your distro doesn't maintain an up to date repository, then switch distros.

You say OpenSuse handles upstream syncing.. significantly better? Like a LOT better?

[bulletxt]

There is speculation as to why some people don't like Ubuntu. As good as a distro as it is (I rather like it), it also manages to create some spoiled and lazy users. This self righteous feeling of entitlement for Ubuntu is completely insane (and rather annoying I might add...)

Now give me 1 single reasons why people that use a computer must be expterts. We aren't in the 90 era anymore. It is duty of the OS to try and do the most possible things for the user. Of course if the OS is targeted for desktop users.
Just because you live in a house everyday, does this mean you know how to build a house? Does this mean you know how to fix your water?

Untill there are people like you, Windows will and always will be OS number 1 in the desktop area. And you know what? Reading posts like yours bring me to say: Thank you Microsoft for giving me a product, even if it's stupid, It works for my needs and is easy to use. I have no interest in knowing what the word "sources" means. If you don't give me an "exe" for my OS, I simply won't use your software. = If you don't build the house, I won't buy it. I will buy another house already made.

[ethana2]

Untill there are people like you, Windows will and always will be OS number 1 in the desktop area.

NINETY THREE! (..what?)
..still disagree with Windows being 'number 1'. If gnome, kde, and xfce distributions did not exist, Mac OS X would be 'number 1', and the only reason not to pick Windows over it would be cost. If Apple had the urge to completely dominate the market, you know they could flip the share figures in 12 months flat.

[Joe Sixpack]

You say OpenSuse handles upstream syncing.. significantly better? Like a LOT better?

I don't know exactly what you mean by "upstream syncing", but I'll give you an example of what I was referring to:

I was using Ubuntu 8.04, and I decided that I wanted to give Nexuiz a try. The only version available in the package manager was 2.24. Reading around Ubuntu forums and/or doc I found that they had no intentions of backporting the newest version. That, in addition to a few other outdated packages that weren't backported, prompted me to switch to openSUSE 11. After the switch, I added a repository or 2, and proceeded to install the games (via one click install mind you). With minimal effort, I installed the latest versions of Warsow (which Ubuntu had stuck at 0.32), Nexuiz, and Open Arena. And it gets better...

When I installed openSUSE 11, I opted to go with KDE4. After the install, I upgraded to KDE 4.0.3, and then upgraded again to 4.1.2 - and did both with virtually no problems whatsoever. To sum it up, the developer didn't have to provide me with new packages, because SUSE did a great job of supporting it's own distro.

[Joe Sixpack]

Now give me 1 single reasons why people that use a computer must be expterts. We aren't in the 90 era anymore. It is duty of the OS to try and do the most possible things for the user. Of course if the OS is targeted for desktop users.
Just because you live in a house everyday, does this mean you know how to build a house? Does this mean you know how to fix your water?

Untill there are people like you, Windows will and always will be OS number 1 in the desktop area. And you know what? Reading posts like yours bring me to say: Thank you Microsoft for giving me a product, even if it's stupid, It works for my needs and is easy to use. I have no interest in knowing what the word "sources" means. If you don't give me an "exe" for my OS, I simply won't use your software. = If you don't build the house, I won't buy it. I will buy another house already made.

You're getting off topic here. I never said anyone had to be an expert. Windows will be number 1 in the desktop area because OEM vendors ship it and companies won't develop for Linux - no other reason. I get more phone calls about people needing help doing something in Windows then you can imagine. Spyware, registry corruption, drivers (almost NOTHING is supported internally by Windows), etc, etc. So to imply that Windows is easier to use is completely false.

Having said that, you can either have a distro that's easy to use and provides you with packages when they feel they're safe , or you can stay more up to date - but with a little more work. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Wouldn't installing bleeding edge software from a third party defeat the whole purpose of using Ubuntu? That's rather counter-productive to the safe haven of Linux they try to provide. Because guess what? The moment it doesn't work properly, they (the game devs) are responsible for making it work - since you made it clear you have absolutely no desire to figure out why it isn't working yourself. The end result is more time being spent on maintaining packages for a distro project they don't even work on and less time working on their own project. So why even open that can of worms?

Soo... either wait for Ubuntu to release packages officially, or get your hands dirty. Don't blame the devs for not supporting a distro that does the vast majority of it's supporting internally anyways. Ubuntu doesn't deserve special treatment just because newbies love it.

And FYI: phoronix is hardly a website targeted towards people who'd "rather pay $30 than compile it myself". Consider where you are before you complain about opinions here. Nothing wrong with those types of users, but this is hardly their international headquarters.

[ethana2]

You're getting off topic here. I never said anyone had to be an expert. Windows will be number 1 in the desktop area because OEM vendors ship it and companies won't develop for Linux - no other reason. I get more phone calls about people needing help doing something in Windows then you can imagine. Spyware, registry corruption, drivers (almost NOTHING is supported internally by Windows), etc, etc. So to imply that Windows is easier to use is completely false.

Having said that, you can either have a distro that's easy to use and provides you with packages when they feel they're safe , or you can stay more up to date - but with a little more work. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Wouldn't installing bleeding edge software from a third party defeat the whole purpose of using Ubuntu? That's rather counter-productive to the safe haven of Linux they try to provide. Because guess what? The moment it doesn't work properly, they (the game devs) are responsible for making it work - since you made it clear you have absolutely no desire to figure out why it isn't working yourself. The end result is more time being spent on maintaining packages for a distro project they don't even work on and less time working on their own project. So why even open that can of worms?

Soo... either wait for Ubuntu to release packages officially, or get your hands dirty. Don't blame the devs for not supporting a distro that does the vast majority of it's supporting internally anyways. Ubuntu doesn't deserve special treatment just because newbies love it.

About Windows: Thank you, yes. About software: you bring up an interesting point, but there's a difference between 'bleeding edge' and 'point and bugfix releases'. It may even turn out that what I want out of an upgrade system is somewhat debian-like in nature.. I don't even know anymore.

About Wesnoth, this isn't a matter of them having to do a ton more work. They obviously already built .debs. I don't even think they have to make their own apt repos, but I think they've done that already too (as many have pointed out that may be considered above and beyond the call of duty). The only thing I'm taking issue with on the part of the Wesnoth developers is that they didn't put the ubuntu binaries with the windows and mac osx binaries. I don't even really care that much from the perspective of a person who uses Ubuntu. What I don't want is Windows users who just got done watching some PC+Mac commercial on TV going to the Wesnoth download page and having their OS duopoly mentally reinforced by Wesnoth's lumping Ubuntu together with all the other desktop operating systems whose market share it surpasses in combined total. Ubuntu is not 'other'. Ubuntu will take the usability and polish of Mac OS X onto the hardware it doesn't have the balls to handle. Even if ubuntu is only a 'gateway drug' to free software, that's an important step for users to take, and its important to do every reasonable thing possible to give them the confidence to take that step.

[muep]

Compiling code is a sin. Aside from wasting energy, wasting time, and the fact that it NEVER works (different reason each time), I refuse to install from source just because it doesn't make proper use of my package manager, which happens to be the third best thing about my OS in the first place, the single greatest factor in my ditching Windows, and the main reason I prefer it over Mac OS 10.

I hope this does get into 9.04. Truth be told, if I ever do really start playing it, I'm probably just going to use whatever version is given me by Apps > Add, so, whatever they can do there is good.

I disagree with compiling being a sin, but that is probaly off topic for this forum...

Anyway, I do compile stuff quite often. While it might waste some energy, I don't think the increased consumption is that significant, especially when compared to some other ways to spend free time, or when considering that I would probably use the computer for something else anyway.

In addition, self-compiled software works perfectly for me quite often. I can also take advantage of my package manager by creating packages of the software instead of blindly running 'make install'.

I know that Ubuntu has kept the top spot at Distrowatch for quite a long time, but it doesn't mean that it's the only significant Linux distribution in existence. It also doesn't mean that Ubuntu users should try to undermine the position of other Linux distributions and their users, like me.

The source code works for all the major distributions and even other operating systems, provided that they ship the dependencies for the software being compiled. That's why I think the source tarball is the primary product of the software project. They event wouldn't need to ship anything else, since it's the distribution's job to precompile the software for their users.

I also wouldn't recommend installing random precompiled packages downloaded from web, regardless of the distribution. If the package is good, then why isn't it in the official distribution?

[ivanovic]

In general our release is ONLY the source tarball. That is everything. Most linux users know to use their package manager to get updated packages either because the distro they use has them anyway, or because they are able to add other "sources of packages" in the list, sources they know of to be trustworthy. Windows and Mac users on the other hand are basically unable to do so.

There is a plain and simple reason why we don't link packages for single Linux distributions on our announcements: The announcement text has to be ready several days before the announcement it put online. Most packages are *NOT* done by one of our core developer but by people from the distributions. We have no influence on if/when anything will be ready there.

With other words: either learn to live with the sources, wait till your package manager has it, or search how to "extend" the list of package sources for your package manager to get more up to date sources in.

[ethana2]

I can also take advantage of my package manager by creating packages of the software instead of blindly running 'make install'.

How do you do that?

"In general our release is ONLY the source tarball. That is everything. Most linux users know to use their package manager to get updated packages either because the distro they use has them anyway, or because they are able to add other "sources of packages" in the list, sources they know of to be trustworthy. Windows and Mac users on the other hand are basically unable to do so."

Yes, I have quite a few alternate apt servers in my sources list. On the mac side though, even though fink didn't have enough available software for me to bother with it.. I don't know, OS X doesn't ship with it..

"There is a plain and simple reason why we don't link packages for single Linux distributions on our announcements: The announcement text has to be ready several days before the announcement it put online. Most packages are *NOT* done by one of our core developer but by people from the distributions. We have no influence on if/when anything will be ready there."

Now, this makes sense I guess.. still a tiny bit confused, but I'll just go with that and let y'all be.

[muep]

How do you do that?

I use the same tools and methods that are used to create the original packages for my distribution. The guide that got me started with that is still just a draft, but it is available here (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/BuildingPackagesGuide).

For dpkg-using distros, the process is quite different, but the basic method is the same: make the package automatically install to some known temporary place, and have the tools make a package from the file tree at that location.

I know this isn't very easy for a newcomer, but it isn't hard if one is already familiar with compiling software. In addition, the built packages can often easily be shared with others of the distro where they were built.

There are also source rpms and source deb packages, which, if created suitably, can be automatically built on all the distributions that use the same package management system.

[Svartalf]

I'm sorry but you are ignoring that Ubuntu in the normal desktop area = Linux. You can't treat Ubuntu like all other distros. And you can't say this is an unfair thing, becuase releasing packages for Ubuntu means making a favour to all users. And since most of them use Ubuntu, you are doing a favour to most users.

And he tells this to an Ubuntu user... :D

[energyman]

Compiling code is a sin. Aside from wasting energy, wasting time, and the fact that it NEVER works (different reason each time), I refuse to install from source just because it doesn't make proper use of my package manager, which happens to be the third best thing about my OS in the first place, the single greatest factor in my ditching Windows, and the main reason I prefer it over Mac OS 10.

I hope this does get into 9.04. Truth be told, if I ever do really start playing it, I'm probably just going to use whatever version is given me by Apps > Add, so, whatever they can do there is good.

go away.

compiling works very well on none broken distributions - and it works. It works even BETTER than binary pacakges. You know nothing. Please don't ridicule yourself anymore.

Oh, and the wesnoth guys vreate a cool game FOR FREE. Do you pay them? No, then stop complaining.

[ivanovic]

And for all Ubuntu users that will upgrade to 9.04 and want to play Wesnoth: You will be able to rely on the package manager!

The exception from the feature freeze that was required to bump Wesnoth into Jaunty was granted: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wesnoth/+bug/346990

[niniendowarrior]

Oh please people. This talk of Ubuntu = Linux and Windows is #1 desktop bores me. The Wesnoth folks will release source. That's it. Deal with it and move on.

[Svartalf]

And for all Ubuntu users that will upgrade to 9.04 and want to play Wesnoth: You will be able to rely on the package manager!

The exception from the feature freeze that was required to bump Wesnoth into Jaunty was granted: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wesnoth/+bug/346990

That's awesome to hear, ivanovic! :D