Duke Nukem 4 Never

[deanjo]

Well it finally happened:


3D Realms to be closed http://www.fudzilla.com/templates/rt_versatility_ii_sienna/images/printButton.png (http://www.fudzilla.com/index2.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13538&pop=1&page=0&Itemid=1) http://www.fudzilla.com/templates/rt_versatility_ii_sienna/images/emailButton.png (http://www.fudzilla.com/index2.php?option=com_content&task=emailform&id=13538&itemid=1) Written by David Stellmack (http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_contact&Itemid=379&Itemid=1) Thursday, 07 May 2009 06:16
http://www.fudzilla.com/images/stories/Logos/duke3d_logo.jpg

New Duke Nukem finally is never-ware

In a surprise turn of events, Duke Nukem developer 3D Realms will be closing their doors for the final time at the end of this week. This news is now being confirmed by our sources as well as several industry insiders.

The news now seems to finally move the Duke Nukem Forever title from vapor-ware to never-ware. While we can’t actually confirm that the next chapter in the Duke Nukem saga will never be released, we believe with 3D Realms closing it is now more unlikely than ever that the title will never see the light of day.

In many ways the fact that the Duke Nukem Forever saga will finally end will bring to a close one of the longest running delays that has ever been seen in the gaming software business. The Forever sequel was originally announced back in 1997 and the continued promises as well as the delays have been the butt of industry punch lines for years.

In recent years more details started to come to light, as well as screen shots that seemed to actually indicate that work was being done on the title; and at least a ray of hope for a possible release was on the horizon. While it is possible that the rights and development assets could find their way to another developer to actually finish Duke Nukem Forever, at this time we have to think that it could actually reemerge at some point; however, this would likely be as the result of being sold as an asset to someone else and with a new team at the helm.

Some details are still sketchy, including just how many developers will be affected by the closure, and remain at least for the moment up in the air. From our understanding at least some development will continue by third party developers that were licensed for Duke Nukem titles that are in development for the Nintendo DS as well as the PSP. We expect to hear more before the end of the week, but the news certainly ends an era.
Hey svartalf, make them an offer for the DN4Ever code. Might get it pretty cheap. :D Don't bother trying to access their website though, it's already dead.

[L33F3R]

someone code a java app for an online funeral and get 1 hell of a server to put it on.

The gaming world is gunna be rocked (assuming this is real).

[djack]

I'll stick it in the same pile as UT3 and NWN2

[deanjo]

I'll stick it in the same pile as UT3 and NWN2

Both those games however made it out, they were published and sold.

[Svartalf]

Well it finally happened:

Hey svartalf, make them an offer for the DN4Ever code. Might get it pretty cheap. :D Don't bother trying to access their website though, it's already dead.

Heheheheheh... One wonders just what they have. Word was they'd hired on a handful of level designers to actually bring the game to completion for release sometime this year. With the publishing rights still solidly in 2K's hands, I would say that it's a hot-potato that few would want. (Besides, who'd want the seminal vaporware title anyhow... ;))

[curaga]

Wouldn't it actually make a nice surprise to the gaming crowd to see DNF actually released, and hold for it.. as a linux exclusive! :)

[deanjo]

Wouldn't it actually make a nice surprise to the gaming crowd to see DNF actually released, and hold for it.. as a linux exclusive! :)
Oh hell yes.

[xav1r]

Heheheheheh... One wonders just what they have. Word was they'd hired on a handful of level designers to actually bring the game to completion for release sometime this year. With the publishing rights still solidly in 2K's hands, I would say that it's a hot-potato that few would want. (Besides, who'd want the seminal vaporware title anyhow... ;))

WEll, it could have some sort of weirdness circus appeal. ;)

But, does this mean all the Apogee games are now free and up for grabs??? :D

[korpenkraxar]

Oh noes! Whats gonna happen with perl6 now?

[L33F3R]

Wouldn't it actually make a nice surprise to the gaming crowd to see DNF actually released, and hold for it.. as a linux exclusive! :)

or make it a linux game and release the windows installer 2 months later :D

[pete910]

or make it a linux game and release the windows installer 2 months later :D

Correction "years"
Then state it's stuck in legal!!!;)

[Setlec]

or make it a linux game and release the windows installer 2 months later

2 months later only? hell no i would make for 12 or more months and would say "well didn't have money to buy M$ OS, sorry!"

[curaga]

Even better, let the 2-years-late windows version to be the linux one, just with a Linux emulator. Then say it was necessary, because this is a Linux game, and Windows is not a gaming os. :D :D

[white_eagle]

Felt sad for a moment and then the feeling went away... :)

[deanjo]

lol, no wonder why Take 2 refused to buy Duke's IP or offer funding for it. They are going to end up getting it for nothing.


Take-Two sues over Duke Forever non-completion
by Cyril Kowaliski (ckowaliski@techreport.com) — 6:00 AM on May 15, 2009
Things are just going from bad to worse for 3D Realms and its former staffers. After shutting down last week because of insufficient funding, the former games studio is now the subject of a lawsuit by would-be Duke Nukem Forever publisher Take-Two Interactive. As Shacknews reports, Take-Two claims 3D Realms has breached a contract (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/58642) by failing to deliver the game:
"Apogee [a.k.a. 3D Realms] continually delayed the completion date for the Duke Nukem Forever," says Take-Two in the complaint, according to Bloomberg. "Apogee repeatedly assured Take-Two and the video-gaming community that it was diligently working toward competing development of the PC Version of the Duke Nukem Forever." According to Take-Two, the company paid $12 million to 3D Realms for the publishing rights to Duke Nukem Forever in 2000. A second, unspecified agreement was struck between the two companies in 2007.
While 3D Realms no longer exists, Shacknews points out that a publishing spin-off dubbed Apogee Software, LLC (not to be confused with Apogee Software, Ltd, which was 3D Realms' legal name) remains in operation. Apogee LLC got tongues wagging last week by promising an imminent Duke Nukem-related announcement, but as it turned out, that announcement had nothing to do (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/58606) with Duke Forever. In any case, Take-Two might not want to count on a multi-million-dollar settlement.

[Svartalf]

lol, no wonder why Take 2 refused to buy Duke's IP or offer funding for it. They are going to end up getting it for nothing.

Heh... The thing is that them doing that successfully may remain to be seen. The play they seem to be making explains the lack of ponying up $5 mil and demanding $30 mil for publishing rights for something they didn't fund, bought the rights off of another publisher for $12 mil... The big problem with them succeeding in this play would be that the Court may have trouble buying the line when it comes to light that they did this play the way they did. Seriously.

This gets weirder and weirder as it plays out. "As the Stomach Turns"... :D

[Svartalf]

But, does this mean all the Apogee games are now free and up for grabs??? :D

No. The rights to the back catalog belongs to the newly reformed Apogee, LLC that's related to, but not the same entity as the original, which renamed itself to 3DRealms. When they formed the company, they spun off the rights to them, with the ability to continue to produce DNF, etc.

Moreover, 3DRealms hasn't done anything official other than close down daily operations as a publisher and a studio. Moreover, they've not dissolved the company fully yet. Until it's sold off or dissolved, even if they didn't hand rights control, via contract, to a sister company- they stay with the company.

[L33F3R]

No. The rights to the back catalog belongs to the newly reformed Apogee, LLC that's related to, but not the same entity as the original, which renamed itself to 3DRealms. When they formed the company, they spun off the rights to them, with the ability to continue to produce DNF, etc.

Moreover, 3DRealms hasn't done anything official other than close down daily operations as a publisher and a studio. Moreover, they've not dissolved the company fully yet. Until it's sold off or dissolved, even if they didn't hand rights control, via contract, to a sister company- they stay with the company.

ughhh all this publishing mumbo jumbo. How do you manage to handle it all :rolleyes:

[Svartalf]

ughhh all this publishing mumbo jumbo. How do you manage to handle it all :rolleyes:

I'm not quite sure sometimes... It's a twisted world, to say the least. It gets even more entertaining when you start talking "Patents". I've gotten my fair share of more than most people could stomach of that having filed one myself. ;)

[xav1r]

No. The rights to the back catalog belongs to the newly reformed Apogee, LLC that's related to, but not the same entity as the original, which renamed itself to 3DRealms. When they formed the company, they spun off the rights to them, with the ability to continue to produce DNF, etc.

Moreover, 3DRealms hasn't done anything official other than close down daily operations as a publisher and a studio. Moreover, they've not dissolved the company fully yet. Until it's sold off or dissolved, even if they didn't hand rights control, via contract, to a sister company- they stay with the company.

So when are they going to be fully dissolved/sold off. I'd love to buy the rights to Rise of the Triad or Shadow Warrior. :D

[Svartalf]

So when are they going to be fully dissolved/sold off. I'd love to buy the rights to Rise of the Triad or Shadow Warrior. :D

Heh... I'd love to own the rights to either of them. Not that any of us would have a shot or the cash assets in hand to purchase the thing. And if someone buys them lock-stock-and-barrel, you won't likely have a shot at buying the rights to the assets. :D

[xav1r]

Heh... I'd love to own the rights to either of them. Not that any of us would have a shot or the cash assets in hand to purchase the thing. And if someone buys them lock-stock-and-barrel, you won't likely have a shot at buying the rights to the assets. :D

Do you really think they are worth that much? I mean, what, 6 figures for some dos era not so big name games? Where would anyone interested go asking for a shot at buying the rights anyways?

[L33F3R]

Do you really think they are worth that much? I mean, what, 6 figures for some dos era not so big name games? Where would anyone interested go asking for a shot at buying the rights anyways?

it's like L33F3R's fuzzy wuzzy teddy bear, it has sentimental value :p

(no i dont have 1 [that i know of]):D

[Svartalf]

Do you really think they are worth that much? I mean, what, 6 figures for some dos era not so big name games?

Now... What did I say before...hm?

Just because YOU value them at less than 5 figures, doesn't mean the business or the Trustee will value them less. :D


Where would anyone interested go asking for a shot at buying the rights anyways?


Typically, if the the company goes into Chapter 11, they peddle it to other companies. If they're in Chapter 7, the Trustee will initially try to peddle it to the usual suspects and then possibly hold a sealed bid auction on it if there's no takers. The average people typically DO NOT have an in on getting to make offers on things there.

This presumes the company files bankruptcy. If they don't, you have to know the principals or be hooked up with them. Typically, they're looking for 5 figures for most things in that situation.

[deanjo]

Hmmm, now 3D Realms is saying Take 2 never even paid for the publishing rights. If that's the case I can see MS moving in after the court case.

Shacknews (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/58651) has some court documents from the Take-Two lawsuit against 3D Realms (http://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=viewstory&threadid=98356) indicating the publisher is claiming it is owed "millions of dollars," and is seeking the court's help in protecting the source code and other assets from Duke Nukem Forever. They also have a comment from Scott Miller, who says 3D Realms will have more to say on the matter soon, but in the meantime he denies Take-Two's claim that it paid 3D Realms $12 million for the DNF publishing rights, "No. We didn't get a penny of that money," says the 3D Realms co-owner, who adds: "This, along with so much else, is 100% spin, being eaten up by those who have no clue whatsoever."

Either way I see Duke being published "when it's done".

[Svartalf]

Hmmm, now 3D Realms is saying Take 2 never even paid for the publishing rights. If that's the case I can see MS moving in after the court case.

My take on this, based on the tracing of the history is this:


3DRealms had a publishing deal with Gathering of Developers (GoD) while they were still in business.
GoD became a subsidiary (but not directly associated with Take-Two) sometime around 1999.
GoD was purchased outright by Take-Two in 2000. The $12M claimed to have been paid for the rights was part of the purchase deal for GoD.
Later on, Take-Two offered a payment of 4.5 million plus royalties on the delivery of the game with an additional half mil bonus if delivered on or before December 31, 2006.
At no point did Take-Two pay anyone at 3DRealms anything. They hold the publishing rights contract that was signed with the Gathering of Developers for whatever deal that was made (no details on that contract are known, but it certainly wasn't for 12Mil...).


It doesn't seem that Scott's remarks are out of line or false- and don't characterize anything other than disputing the outstanding line that people keep thinking happened; which is that Take-Two paid them $12 million which they really, really didn't.

Either way I see Duke being published "when it's done".

No kidding... But...it's time to stick a fork in it...it's done... :D

Does that mean it'll get published? ;)

[SolidSteel144]

One day this game might actually come out (or not).

[Dragonlord]

Unfortunately this might be true... as a German proverb goes: "Totgesagte leben länger!" ( those considered dead live longer ).

[xav1r]

My take on this, based on the tracing of the history is this:


3DRealms had a publishing deal with Gathering of Developers (GoD) while they were still in business.
GoD became a subsidiary (but not directly associated with Take-Two) sometime around 1999.
GoD was purchased outright by Take-Two in 2000. The $12M claimed to have been paid for the rights was part of the purchase deal for GoD.
Later on, Take-Two offered a payment of 4.5 million plus royalties on the delivery of the game with an additional half mil bonus if delivered on or before December 31, 2006.
At no point did Take-Two pay anyone at 3DRealms anything. They hold the publishing rights contract that was signed with the Gathering of Developers for whatever deal that was made (no details on that contract are known, but it certainly wasn't for 12Mil...).


It doesn't seem that Scott's remarks are out of line or false- and don't characterize anything other than disputing the outstanding line that people keep thinking happened; which is that Take-Two paid them $12 million which they really, really didn't.



No kidding... But...it's time to stick a fork in it...it's done... :D

Does that mean it'll get published? ;)

I thought the previous publisher was GT Interactive, which was bought out by Infogrames. Didnt Take 2 pay them the 12m for the publishing rights?

[L33F3R]

Unfortunately this might be true... as a German proverb goes: "Totgesagte leben länger!" ( those considered dead live longer ).

well then im a zombie :)

[Dragonlord]

well then im a zombie :)
Where did I left my GravGun? :D

[Svartalf]

I thought the previous publisher was GT Interactive, which was bought out by Infogrames. Didnt Take 2 pay them the 12m for the publishing rights?

No, GT was first, GoD was second, Take-Two was third- all the handoffs were due to the publisher in question imploding or being bought out. They bought GoD and one of the parts of the deal was the licensing rights to DNF for 12 mil. If Take-Two/2k has a beef over the $12 mil they paid in, it's not with 3DR; it's with the prior principals of GoD. They didn't pay anyone at 3DR any money, ever; they just held the publication rights to it just like they held the rights to the first Ep on Prey. They've PUBLICLY stated that for the record, even. It remains to be seen that Take-Two has anything that'll work in court at this point because of that history.