Linux MMORPG Game Engine Sees Major Update [Archive]

curaga

05-23-2009, 08:19 AM

Now, you're going to get slaughtered for that comment. I'll try to be gentle :p

Nobody cares if game X works in Wine. Because it's card, driver, version, moon phase, patch, and game dependant. Oh, and mostly, because this is not a Windows Games site.

So what if the game is native on Linux? The games that are, are 10 years behind those on Windows.Since the game in the article, Regnum Online, also has a windows version, you're clearly causing a paradox here. If the same engine runs on both OSes, and somehow yet manages to be 10 years behind on the other.. String theory ain't enough.

The games may not be better because they run on linux. Yet an awful lot of people consider the #1 requirement for a game to be "it runs on my system" where system is console/pc/OS.

Linux is good for games. Enough said.

Louise

05-23-2009, 08:38 AM

Nobody cares if game X works in Wine. Because it's card, driver, version, moon phase, patch, and game dependant. Oh, and mostly, because this is not a Windows Games site.

Which is why the reviews should be "Now game X is Cedega certified". That would be news worth for Linux users.

Since the game in the article, Regnum Online, also has a windows version, you're clearly causing a paradox here. If the same engine runs on both OSes, and somehow yet manages to be 10 years behind on the other.. String theory ain't enough.

Look at it. Does either of them look like Rage from id Software or whatever the latest games are for Windows?

Yet an awful lot of people consider the #1 requirement for a game to be "it runs on my system" where system is console/pc/OS.

If that was true, there would be a game market on Linux.

Vadi

05-23-2009, 08:44 AM

That's some amazing backwards logic here.

Downloaded the game yesterday again for some reason, has minor issues, but their support is responsive. Going to give it a try :)

L33F3R

05-23-2009, 08:46 AM

I'd much rather see news about Windows games that now works with Cedega or Wine. Perhaps even reviews of the installation process and benchmarks.

So what if the game is native on Linux? The games that are, are 10 years behind those on Windows.

It is psychological that the games are better, when it is native Linux. It doesn't matter a thing :)

I'd wish Linux users would recognize that Linux is not good for games, and stopped wanting it to be.

well news flash buddy, there was a point that linux wasn't good as a desktop or even as a server. Now gnome/kde rock hard and last time i checked linux still monopolizes the server market. IBM could be considered one of the most conservative companies as far as business practices and even they can see a bright future.

And as stated in another thread i get +40 FPS in ETQW when using linux mint over windows xp. Thats very significant. I have to argue that linux, when given a chance is very good for games.

And as for the 10 years behind comment, is world of goo 10 years behind? sure its 2D and can run on a lower end system but that doesnt make it a boring game. I have played alot of new AAA titles and im sad to report that besides cosmetics, overall they suck. Take F.E.A.R 1 and 2 for example. FEAR 1 looked ok at the time but the gameplay made me want to cut myself. It was about that bad.

MaestroMaus

05-23-2009, 09:07 AM

@ Louise: You react in the same way Christian Frank did here (http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16306&page=2). I suggest you look there for your answers. Also I am to lazy to repeat all of the sensible things said there. :)

EDIT: btw I gotta say, this is one of the most hilarious arguments ever:
Look at it. Does either of them look like Rage from id Software or whatever the latest games are for Windows?What is so funny is that RAGE will not be released this year and that when it is released, it will also be released on Linux in at least 6 months.

Louise

05-23-2009, 09:24 AM

EDIT: btw I gotta say, this is one of the most hilarious arguments ever:
What is so funny is that RAGE will not be released this year

Rage is not the best looking game, even now, and not when it will be released. So read what I wrote again. Games that look like Rage.

when it is released, it will also be released on Linux in at least 6 months.

Prove that! I'd advise you to be familiar with John Carmack's keynote from QuakeCon 2008 ;)

MaestroMaus

05-23-2009, 09:51 AM

Prove that! I'd advise you to be familiar with John Carmack's keynote from QuakeCon 2008 ;) How am I going to prove that when the game isn't released...:rolleyes:

Louise

05-23-2009, 09:54 AM

How am I going to prove that when the game isn't released...:rolleyes:

That's your problem :) it was you that said it would get released for Linux :)

If you want Carmack's keynote, you will hear that he talks about Linux as a gaming platform, and that Rage will not get released for Linux.

deanjo

05-23-2009, 09:54 AM

EDIT: btw I gotta say, this is one of the most hilarious arguments ever:
What is so funny is that RAGE will not be released this year and that when it is released, it will also be released on Linux in at least 6 months.

Ya, Carack has not commited to a linux version at all for Rage. By the looks of it there won't be a linux version of Wolfenstein either which is just over a month and a bit away from release.

Louise

05-23-2009, 10:02 AM

yes, id Software have really tried to push their games for Linux, and really tried to make a business case, but it have failed every time.

As Carmack have said many times at QuakeCon, the user base is just not big enough, and MS is doing a very good job with DirectX.

I don't even know if Doom 3 is released for Linux, but once Rage have matured, Carmack will release the Doom 3 source code. See his keynote.

Who would have though that John Carmack is one of the biggest contributors to Open Source?

Odin

05-23-2009, 11:21 AM

If that was true, there would be a game market on Linux.
There is no "AAA" game market on linux because there are too little Linux users. That's why I love Indie-Devs - they support Linux because they need every customer.

And please stop advertising Cedega.

Louise

05-23-2009, 11:23 AM

And please stop advertising Cededga.

Cedega Cedega Cedega :)

EarthMind

05-23-2009, 11:25 AM

Interesting, but too bad it's an MMORPG...

L33F3R

05-23-2009, 11:37 AM

Cedega Cedega Cedega :)

Do you by any chance have cedega stock? or have stake of any kind?

Your a perfect example of why not to get cedega. I could run a paragraph about your cranial capacity but i will try my hardest to retain it for sake of being polite.

Louise

05-23-2009, 11:41 AM

Do you by any chance have cedega stock? or have stake of any kind?

Your a perfect example of why not to get cedega. I could run a paragraph about your cranial capacity but i will try my hardest to retain it for sake of being polite.

He begged me to do it :)

dammarin

05-23-2009, 11:41 AM

I don't even know if Doom 3 is released for Linux, but once Rage have matured, Carmack will release the Doom 3 source code. See his keynote.

It is, and has been for a long time now. I wonder how he or anyone else "knows" there isn't a market for games on Linux. In case of Doom 3, they released a client on their ftp server, with players still having to purchase the Win version to use it. So the best they can do is count the downloads off their site (which doesn't even count the downloads off other sites).

One of the World of Goo creators had positive things to say about the sales of WoG on Linux.

About Cedega: their business model is extremely annoying. I subscribed once and got a couple of versions. Now I'm not subscribed any more and am trying to get a game running on the version I have. But I've run into problems and cannot access the technical tips section of the database because I'm not subscribed. Which basically makes the versions of Cedega I have completely useless.

I will really, really never subscribe to Cedega again.

Odin

05-23-2009, 11:45 AM

Cedega Cedega Cedega :)

Why should I support a company/product who doesn't support my widespreaded grahpics card?
Why should I support a company/product who does nearly nothing better (and sometimes even worse) than an open source software (which is free!)?

Louise

05-23-2009, 11:48 AM

Why should I support a company/product who doesn't support my widespreaded grahpics card?
Why should I support a company/product who does nearly nothing better (and sometimes even worse) than an open source software (which is free!)?

You shouldn't. Why should you?

For me, Cedega is a great product, but it might now be for others.

If your games works in Wine, then stick with Wine. Why change?

Odin

05-23-2009, 12:00 PM

If I shouldn't, why are you shouting "Cedega" all over the place?

Maybe you should write a mail to:

Advertising, General Business Inquiries
phoronix [at] phoronix.com

;)

L33F3R

05-23-2009, 12:11 PM

If I shouldn't, why are you shouting "Cedega" all over the place?

Maybe you should write a mail to:

Advertising, General Business Inquiries
phoronix [at] phoronix.com

;)

cheers :p

+1 to that :D

EarthMind

05-23-2009, 12:27 PM

If I shouldn't, why are you shouting "Cedega" all over the place?

Maybe you should write a mail to:

Advertising, General Business Inquiries
phoronix [at] phoronix.com

;)

Funny one :p

damentz

05-23-2009, 01:31 PM

I don't understand Cedega. I tried a copy but apparently you can't run exe's directly. On top of that, I couldn't install steam so I just removed it.... it wanted me to install it through some weird mechanism and install a separate profile which was more work than my current wine install.

I don't know, compared to wine it's even less useful (can't run stupid exe's directly) so I never bothered. Wine's Direct3D code is also improving at a frightening speed so I really don't know who would pay for cedega - it's crap.

btw, why is no one actually talking about the game? Someone said it sucks without playing it or hearing about it which I thought was pretty funny but not constructive, haha.

superppl

05-23-2009, 02:25 PM

Can we talk about the game please?
And MMORPG's aren't supposed to have intense graphics. They need to support a lot of old hardware, and events can involves hundreds of people at a time. Crysis-like graphics means that only a very small number of people would be able to enjoy the game.

But anyway, what's the gameplay like?

korpenkraxar

05-23-2009, 02:31 PM

I don't know about the current prices in other countries but if you do not already own some throw-away Windows XP-license that you could use for gaming, buying one for XP here in Sweden will set you back about the same as a 2.5 year subscription of Cedega.

With that in mind and the fact that I have never managed to run a game in Cedega without problems, I just do not find it a very interesting solution at all. Sure, you don't need to dual boot, but who cares when you get subpar performance and unpredictable behaviour compared to the game running on the platform for which it was designed. Assuming that you bought the game, you are still supporting Windows as a gaming platform, which is pretty much the only edge Windows have over Linux for the young generation of desktop users. The only one suffering from squeezing the game through Cedega is you.

No, these days its all native, emulators or dosbox ;-)

susikala

05-23-2009, 03:19 PM

Honestly, who gives a rat's ass about Wine/any other Winbloat API-imitation.

It's just worsening the problem. It allows Microsoft users to move to Linux without giving up on the ill mentality they've been bred up with -- of getting whatever they want whenever. Not to mention the waste of human resources going over duplicating stuff.

I apologise, but anyone who uses Wine is an idiot in my eyes. A pure, complete retard. Not excusable. Stop fooling yourself and dualboot if you have to, it's no shame. I really liked Diablo 2 and when the 3rd instalment comes out I might buy it and get dualboot / play virtualised. As for other games, even if I'd like playing them, I'd bite the bullet and keep Windows off my computer. But using Wine is an inexcusable waste of resources and promoting mental ill.

</2ct>

deanjo

05-23-2009, 03:22 PM

Can we talk about the game please?
And MMORPG's aren't supposed to have intense graphics.

Says who?

This game is still no World of Warcraft or Everquest when it comes to the game-play or graphics, Certainly not the article, nor other MMORPG's such as the afformentioned games and AD&D Online, Eve, etc.... Just because it's online doesn't mean that it can't have eyecandy.

As a side note I love how they put the video's in wmv or quicktime but nothing linux friendly.;)

curaga

05-23-2009, 04:02 PM

What's wrong with QT? Mplayer without any binary codec crap plays them just fine.

Of course this might not be if $DISTRO distributes a castrated build without mp3 etc support, but who uses the castrated builds anyway.

edit: in fact, the QT videos in the announcement are MJPEG/WAV.. Should be playable on anything that supports the mov mux format.

RealNC

05-23-2009, 05:11 PM

"This game is still no World of Warcraft [...] when it comes to the game-play or graphics"

Uhm, WoW has awful graphics by today's standards. :P So that actually means this one blows major :P

superppl

05-23-2009, 07:39 PM

Thoughts about the game:
Can't seem to jump.
Looking and moving with the mouse is weird. Also, I can't walk with the mouse.
Can't hold characters for multiple factions.
In game menu lacks options.
There doesn't seem to be a lot of players.
Also, textures (my real big thing) are nothing special.

Overall the interface is not what I'm used to.

deanjo

05-23-2009, 07:53 PM

Odin

05-23-2009, 08:06 PM

Overall the interface is not what I'm used to.
So every MMORPG should have an interface like <insert game you are used to> ?

MaestroMaus

05-24-2009, 04:08 AM

That's your problem :) it was you that said it would get released for Linux :)

If you want Carmack's keynote, you will hear that he talks about Linux as a gaming platform, and that Rage will not get released for Linux.
No it can never be my problem any more. I bought a PS3 a few months ago and now that I have, I realized I should have done that a long time ago. :)

Seriously though, I remember reading/hearing somewhere that he was indeed very fond of DX11 but that he would continue to release his games on Linux for now. This is supported by this article (http://www.hitechsquad.com/2007/09/22/ids-rage-coming-to-linux-after-all-and-the-hi-tech-squad-where-right-about-d3d/).

yes, id Software have really tried to push their games for Linux, and really tried to make a business case, but it have failed every time.

As Carmack have said many times at QuakeCon, the user base is just not big enough, and MS is doing a very good job with DirectX.

I don't even know if Doom 3 is released for Linux, but once Rage have matured, Carmack will release the Doom 3 source code. See his keynote.

Who would have though that John Carmack is one of the biggest contributors to Open Source?

You don't know if Doom 3 was ever released for Linux? What kind of gamers are you guys?

Here I give you something to think about:
- Every ID game since Quake had been released on Linux with a native installer and in most cases without support. Why would they stop now?
- The Linux game market always has been crap compared to the Windows game market. However it is at it's all time best right now. Why would they stop now?
- If they don't like to support Linux any more, how come they are still porting Quake Live to Linux?

EDIT: Heh, I just noticed Svartalf in the slashdot comments on the article.

L33F3R

05-24-2009, 04:22 PM

superppl

05-24-2009, 04:53 PM

http://www.cryengine2.com/index.php?pnr=1&conid=11
http://www.bluemarsonline.com/

cryengine 2 in an MMO

O_O
When will it be ready?
Also not on topic: an MMO where position, cover, and physics make a difference instead of stats would be awesome.

L33F3R

05-24-2009, 05:48 PM

O_O
When will it be ready?
Also not on topic: an MMO where position, cover, and physics make a difference instead of stats would be awesome.

hell if i know but they in beta.

xav1r

05-24-2009, 08:13 PM

I hate Cedega. It sucks. That is all.

M1AU

05-25-2009, 03:58 AM

I played it for quite some time and enjoyed it, but unfortunately since a few month, the client for 32 and 64 Bit is absolutely unstable and unusable for me. :( The client randomly crashes every few minutes. I do can play if I set all graphic settings to low, but than it looks so horrible that I don't have much fun playing it.

BTW I guess it was some kind of a segfault of the client, but I can't remember the exact error message. Also I'm not even able to write in the official support forum because I have a German Gamigo Account (if you click on the Sign Up link on the official website, you where redirected to Gamigo which is stupid and sad)

Svartalf

05-25-2009, 11:02 AM

It is, and has been for a long time now. I wonder how he or anyone else "knows" there isn't a market for games on Linux. In case of Doom 3, they released a client on their ftp server, with players still having to purchase the Win version to use it. So the best they can do is count the downloads off their site (which doesn't even count the downloads off other sites).

1) Downloads do not equate to sales. You can download many times and count as a single sale. Downloads aren't a metric.

2) The last time we had them try to make an official Linux version (as opposed to what we've been getting all along...) we bought only 200 copies as we couldn't be assed to wait a couple of weeks for the Linux version and bought the Windows version and converted it.

3) Everyone keeps stupidly plugging answers like Cedega. While they're the "competition" to the things I do, it's not the answer. If it was, I wouldn't be putting myself through this stuff because I've put quite a bit of effort into things and haven't seen much return so far on the efforts.

4) They know there's a real market. However, because of past performance (Q3:A- that's the 200 unit sales debacle we did to ourselves...) and the fact we keep flogging WINE/Cedega as an answer, it'd be no real surprise to myself or many others that he's come to the conclusion there's no market. Why expend another 10% of your resources to make a Linux version if they're just going to run under WINE?

Svartalf

05-25-2009, 11:10 AM

No it can never be my problem any more. I bought a PS3 a few months ago and now that I have, I realized I should have done that a long time ago. :)

Heh... I've a PS3 and a Wii... That's not a commentary on Linux Gaming, mind- but I will only buy things that're available on the systems I choose to use and own. I only use Windows to verify something on a game port or to reverse engineer device drivers. Ever.

Seriously though, I remember reading/hearing somewhere that he was indeed very fond of DX11 but that he would continue to release his games on Linux for now. This is supported by this article (http://www.hitechsquad.com/2007/09/22/ids-rage-coming-to-linux-after-all-and-the-hi-tech-squad-where-right-about-d3d/).

Yep. It's my understanding that it's no longer a "priority" but he's not going to snub things like that- to not support the OS is to cut one's nose off to spite one's face. Moreover, if he wants any "in" on the Netbook/Handheld/Mobile Phone market, he's going to have to still "do" Linux stuff because WinCE isn't there. You want to target, you have to deal with iPhone/Android/Limo/OpenEmbedded. Seriously.

You don't know if Doom 3 was ever released for Linux? What kind of gamers are you guys?

Doom3, Quake4, QuakeWars, and soon QuakeLive. Someone's trolling and not doing a very good job of it. ;)

Here I give you something to think about:
- Every ID game since Quake had been released on Linux with a native installer and in most cases without support. Why would they stop now?
- The Linux game market always has been crap compared to the Windows game market. However it is at it's all time best right now. Why would they stop now?
- If they don't like to support Linux any more, how come they are still porting Quake Live to Linux?

It's people doing the sky is falling, the sky is falling at the drop of a hat because it's in vogue- they misconstrue ONE thing the man says and run with it.

EDIT: Heh, I just noticed Svartalf in the slashdot comments on the article.

Heh... :D I'm one of the honest advocates and evangelists for Linux gaming and have been for quite a long time.

Svartalf

05-25-2009, 11:15 AM

http://www.cryengine2.com/index.php?pnr=1&conid=11
http://www.bluemarsonline.com/

cryengine 2 in an MMO

Nifty... Neat idea even. I'm more interested in Uningine doing something because the odds of a Linux version from the studio that does a game with that engine is going to be more likely to be providing native Linux binaries.

L33F3R

05-25-2009, 01:57 PM

what kind of epic networking does unigine boast?

Svartalf

05-25-2009, 11:21 PM

what kind of epic networking does unigine boast?

Does it really matter? Crytek has rolled their own for Crysis. Ditto others... If you want a cross-platform framework that does the same thing that DirectPlay does, but does it better, you'll pick Grapple or RakNet. :D

[edit]

Massive MMO stuff's going to be "fun" though. It's not a simple, easy thing to do- and it's the reason behind why I said that the bunch preaching that the games can be local to the company and served across the net to itty-bitty set-top boxes and special clients on PC's and Mac's were selling snake oil.

An example of what I'm talking about- I explained this to someone in private while I was out on holiday:

frank@frank-laptop:~$ traceroute www.phoronix.com
traceroute to www.phoronix.com (209.62.40.52), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
1 10.0.0.1 (10.0.0.1) 5.184 ms 7.231 ms 7.371 ms
2 10.91.176.1 (10.91.176.1) 23.188 ms 25.024 ms 26.316 ms
3 66-169-205-97.ftwo.tx.charter.com (66.169.205.97) 26.752 ms 27.098 ms 30.150 ms
4 so-6-0-0.edge4.Dallas1.Level3.net (4.71.216.5) 30.427 ms 30.856 ms 31.150 ms
5 ae-34-89.car4.Dallas1.Level3.net (4.68.19.134) 32.730 ms ae-14-69.car4.Dallas1.Level3.net (4.68.19.6) 32.039 ms ae-24-79.car4.Dallas1.Level3.net (4.68.19.70) 32.399 ms
6 THE-PLANET.car4.Dallas1.Level3.net (4.71.122.2) 31.486 ms 22.229 ms 17.638 ms
7 et1-1.ibr02.hstntx1.theplanet.com (70.87.253.54) 27.592 ms 29.284 ms 31.746 ms
8 et1-3.ibr02.hstntx2.theplanet.com (70.87.253.58) 31.842 ms 34.555 ms 33.647 ms
9 po2.car02.hstntx2.theplanet.com (74.55.252.102) 34.365 ms 40.392 ms 41.184 ms
10 ev1s-209-62-40-52.theplanet.com (209.62.40.52) 41.929 ms 42.539 ms 46.734 ms
frank@frank-laptop:~$

This means I experienced roughly a 45ms latency to Phoronix from the hotel. That's a fairly clean link there, especially for a hotel ISP one. I was pleasantly surprised.

You have to cope with a lot of 45-150ms or worse latencies for the traffic you're processing. If your timing atom is larger than 200ms, you feel the drag on a FPS or similar type game. Some games actually have smaller atoms- 100ms. At 100ms, you have precisely 55ms to address all interactions that the player just made with the world in toto, along with all the other players in toto, before the next timing frame if you use the connection from the hotel as your example. You have 85ms in the case of a link like mine (which is NOT the norm right at the moment- not even close...). If your ping time plus the time you need to process everyone's interactions exceeds the atom timing size, you start losing stuff, lagging stuff, or both depending on the design you chose for things. Motion estimation compensates for some of this, but it doesn't fix as much as many make it out to. Streaming RUDP does as well- it's part of why Q3:A plays as nicely as it does online over the Internet. But, it's not going to make doing an MMO easy or nice in that regard.

L33F3R

05-26-2009, 12:33 AM

Yfrwlf

05-26-2009, 06:38 AM

hell if i know but they in beta.

They're making it for Vista only. Yay.

Dragonlord

05-26-2009, 09:20 AM

isnt latency the reason they strategically place servers at certain locations. eg, Chicago or Dallas. Or Germany for Europe representation.

Looks like your trace-route doesn't even leave Texas. Most people dont game in a hotel room they do it at home with purchased internet connections.

I have a stable 55.5 MS to Phoronix.com from Toronto. My ISP eats up 13 MS of that.

Heres a distance representation. :D

http://l33f3r.com/images/55ms.jpg
The internet doesn't work like an airplane: it's not air-distance. Your data can roam around the entire world if you are very unlucky. In general it goes over a couple of hops until it reaches the destination which can be at various places. Placing servers does not help since your players can come from everywhere and this especially means all sorts of crappy hops in between introducing lots of lag.

L33F3R

05-26-2009, 10:36 AM

obviously, that would be a really stupid airplane route. Your packets may go around the world if you are on HE or Cogent. Heck if i want to connect to chicago using cogent it takes it to new york first.... But any decent network is going to get you from A to B with few hops.

1 192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1) 0.365 ms 0.356 ms 0.346 ms
2 * * *
3 xxxx.xxxx.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com (66.185.xxx.xxx) 9.673 ms 9.676 ms 9.768 ms
4 xxxx.xxxx.phub.net.cable.rogers.com (66.185.xxx.xxx) 9.368 ms 9.499 ms 9.492 ms
5 xxxxxxxxx.wlfdle.phub.net.cable.rogers.com (66.185.81.xxx) 37.751 ms 37.863 ms 37.856 ms
6 64.71.241.118 (64.71.241.118) 27.045 ms 23.850 ms 23.829 ms
7 eqix.asbn.twtelecom.net (206.223.115.36) 24.315 ms 24.553 ms 24.538 ms
8 hagg-03-ge-1-0-0-538.hsto.twtelecom.net (66.192.246.210) 52.712 ms 52.436 ms 52.691 ms
9 po1.car02.hstntx2.theplanet.com (74.55.252.70) 53.247 ms 53.514 ms 53.216 ms
10 ev1s-209-62-40-52.theplanet.com (209.62.40.52) 56.665 ms 56.749 ms 57.045 ms

Dragonlord

05-26-2009, 12:20 PM

This is not how the internet works. It's a self organizing routing system. Routers can send packages through different routes depending on the current network situation. Furthermore less hops is not always faster. If a hop in between becomes a lagger for one reason or another you might be faster taking a detour using faster and less stressed hops. So it's not that easy as "less hops = faster".

superppl

05-26-2009, 01:13 PM

I guess you could say it's like avoiding the freeway during rush hour traffic. Sure, city streets are slower and have traffic lights, but you still got home 2 hours earlier than if you took the freeway.

L33F3R

05-26-2009, 03:53 PM

This is not how the internet works. It's a self organizing routing system. Routers can send packages through different routes depending on the current network situation.

yessur

Furthermore less hops is not always faster..
Absolutely right

If a hop in between becomes a lagger for one reason or another you might be faster taking a detour using faster and less stressed hops.

In theory this is often the case and would be considered correct. The likelyhood it would be faster for me to connect to Miami before jumping on a line to Altanta would make sense in this situation. A MAJOR change like having to go to Vancouver before heading to Huston is unreasonable.

This result is that your packets take longer. How much? negligible unless retarded routes are used.

Dragonlord

05-26-2009, 04:13 PM

negligible unless retarded routes are used.
You don't want to know how retarded routers can be... especially those on ISPs. :(

Svartalf

05-26-2009, 07:59 PM

You don't want to know how retarded routers can be... especially those on ISPs. :(

No...you don't. I can vouch for that one. And I'll leave it at that...

Svartalf

05-26-2009, 08:03 PM

Looks like your trace-route doesn't even leave Texas. Most people dont game in a hotel room they do it at home with purchased internet connections.

I have a stable 55.5 MS to Phoronix.com from Toronto. My ISP eats up 13 MS of that.

Heres a distance representation. :D

I'll only add a bit more to that... Just because it doesn't leave Texas, is only happy happenstance. The fact that I've a 10-15ms latency there from home is even better happenstance, but I've seen latencies go to hell in a handbasket if the backbone's congested or if a router's hosed.

Moreover, I'll observe that I would have had a 45ms latency prior to getting my FiOS setup, even from Verizon's DSL group as it gets routed to the backbone differently. Just because it's a hotel ISP doesn't discount what I commented on.

Svartalf

05-26-2009, 08:05 PM

This result is that your packets take longer. How much? negligible unless retarded routes are used.

You just told this to a computer systems engineer that deals with stuff that does call trace, monitoring, etc. on the Telcos' networks- not just Dragonlord... (ME!!:D)

It's not negligible and if you hit either MAE-East or MAE-west, you can just toss any real hope of sub 300ms latencies on that session to hell except at certain specific times of the day- and they don't always coincide with what you'd think they do.

You need to understand how TCP/IP ACTUALLY works, even with UDP traffic, before making comments along those lines (Hint: It doesn't work that way... ;) )