Ryan Gordon On Linux UT3: "still on its way"

[phoronix]

Phoronix: Ryan Gordon On Linux UT3: "still on its way"

The Linux client for Unreal Tournament 3 should have been out over 550 days ago, but it appears to be dead with not even Epic Games being sure about its status. However, the independent developer that is responsible for porting this game's server and client over to Linux, Ryan Gordon, claims that the game is still on. Following our news post on Friday regarding this matter, Mr...

http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=NzI4Ng

[Ant P.]

At this point it seems more likely that we'd get a Linux-exclusive Duke Nukem before UT3 ever gets done.

[d2kx]

At this point it seems more likely that we'd get a Linux-exclusive Duke Nukem before UT3 ever gets done.

Haha, I was going to post something like that.

When Ryan Gordon..., if Ryan Gordon releases the UT3 Linux client, then he must explain what is the reason for this delay. "Optimizing" doesn't take two years.

Oh well, if it will be released, I will buy a copy of UT3.

[Naib]

"optimizing" is just an excuse.
It has to be a legal issue of some sorts

the ETQW linux client was shipped without threaded support and un-optimized
The ETQW linux client now has threaded support BUT still no optimized SIMD

[Aradreth]

Haha, I was going to post something like that.

When Ryan Gordon..., if Ryan Gordon releases the UT3 Linux client, then he must explain what is the reason for this delay. "Optimizing" doesn't take two years.

Oh well, if it will be released, I will buy a copy of UT3.
Seeing as it probably isn't him stopping the release and he will most likely be under a NDA the answer will have to come from Epic.

[ronoverdrive]

Its most likely legal bs preventing the clients' release. Most likely what Ryan is stating is true, he's optimising and bug fixing. I doubt its because the client isn't ready, but more likely he's continuing to work on it so he continues to get paid while Epic has their thumbs up their @$$es while deciding on if they want to release it. Eventually I'm expecting a leak a few years from now when they move on from the Unreal3 engine to the Unreal4 engine.

[deanjo]

Its most likely legal bs preventing the clients' release. Most likely what Ryan is stating is true, he's optimising and bug fixing. I doubt its because the client isn't ready, but more likely he's continuing to work on it so he continues to get paid while Epic has their thumbs up their @$$es while deciding on if they want to release it. Eventually I'm expecting a leak a few years from now when they move on from the Unreal3 engine to the Unreal4 engine.

Ryan has stated that the "legal" issues have been settled for quite some time now.

[curaga]

If Ryan has truly been optimizing UT3 for two years, the linux version will likely run on a P2 using a software renderer while still churning out more fps @ 2560x1600 than the win version with dual 4870x2.

[deanjo]

If Ryan has truly been optimizing UT3 for two years, the linux version will likely run on a P2 using a software renderer while still churning out more fps @ 2560x1600 than the win version with dual 4870x2.

Who knows, it might even run well on opensource drivers :p.

[jijitus]

Why you want an UT3 client for Linux? The game is pretty much horrible, nothing like 2K4. It's an amateur-quality game that is not worth our time.

[darkranger]

Maybe the UT3 codebase is TOO BUGGY itself, so took more time to porting.

[bulletxt]

Why you want an UT3 client for Linux? The game is pretty much horrible, nothing like 2K4. It's an amateur-quality game that is not worth our time.

Exactly, that's why i'm not buying it. There is a reason if it didn't have success with the Windows release. If it will have success with Linux, it's only because Linux users don't have anything better to play at.

[azraelthe7th]

Actually, one reason to get the game on Linux is so that we could develop mods using the engine.

The game itself can suck, but the engine is still very much impressive.

[superppl]

...Pretty graphics!

But wait, that's what Unigine is for.

[KhaaL]

yeah, but unigine don't have any linux projects so far. which is a true pity...

[Michael]

I look forward to UT3 just for having another Linux graphics benchmark (and to push it into PTS).

[azraelthe7th]

...Pretty graphics!

But wait, that's what Unigine is for.

Unigine is great, but it's not yet something we can call "playable" or even "moddable".

The tropics demo is a great way of getting the Crytek guys to port Crysis to Linux ("Hey! We can do DX10 too! Without the DX!"), but it's still not a game.

[superppl]

True, but a Unigine game will probably be ready for linux well before the damned UT3 linux port is released. Heck, we'll probably see UT4 on linux before UT3.

[azraelthe7th]

True, but a Unigine game will probably be ready for linux well before the damned UT3 linux port is released. Heck, we'll probably see UT4 on linux before UT3.

Hopefully, the Unigine game project will be something that helps game developers wake up and smell the Linux.

I've bought the Penny Arcade game, and still hope to see more games released for Linux, but a game with a tremendous graphical quality and good playability on Linux could help getting others to make games with cross compatibility in mind.

[Wyatt]

Why you want an UT3 client for Linux? The game is pretty much horrible, nothing like 2K4. It's an amateur-quality game that is not worth our time.
Why would you even say something like this? From a gameplay standpoint it's much better than 2004. The pace and weapon mechanics are superior in just about every way and even the vehicles are pretty interesting. Even better, a decent number of the maps it comes with are actually good. So as someone who cares deeply about games, I simply must ask: What about UT3 would you call "amateur?"

Note that the poor Linux handling is not game mechanics. Neither is poor sales. ;)

[KhaaL]

well, we can all agree on that taunt "eff you" in UT3 feels pretty weak compared to the taunts in UT2k4. Just a minor detail maybe, but it annoys the fsck out of me.

[perpetualrabbit]

Someone please enlighten me a bit, as I'm totally not into 3D gaming:

It seems to me that major new games of the FPS variety come out 4 or 5 times a year, but I wouldn't know. So I ask:

* what major games have come out since UT3?
* which of those run natively in linux?
* which of those run acceptably in wine?

I just have the impression that by the time UT3 for linux does come out, they shouldn't have bothered because nobody plays it anymore, and much better games have come out, with nicer graphics.

If I'm wrong, please tell me.

[Zhick]

Uh, Uh, lem'me awnser that. :)
* what major games have come out since UT3?
* which of those run natively in linux?
* which of those run acceptably in wine?
1. A whole lot.
2. None.
3. Few. Pretty much none when you're using an ATi-Card.

_If_ UT3 for Linux should somewhen make it, it's still gonna be the best looking game available for Linux, and probably will be for quite some time. A game based on Unigine might have around the same level of "bling", but tbh from what I've seen so far more likely a bit less. So there's probably no rival for UT3 (graphics-wise) on Linux till (if) Rage and it's Linux-client get released.

[Kano]

Well castor3d is for Win, Linux, Mac even iphone, also Prey Linux binary was released, also a very cheap game, but very cool...

[FunkyRider]

It's like a decade and 3D on Linux is still a place where no one gives a serious fsck about. This is life, get over it.

When will linux have a serious Racing Game? A well made (including graphics!) RTS, a reasonably well FPS like FarCry 1, which was released 5 years ago?

The technology is there. PS3 is using OpenGL and it has all the good titles on it. It's just no one gives a flying fsck about Linux gaming because there is no market for it.

Linux users should all stop dreaming with it and go do serious works or get whatever else that can play games on.

[deanjo]

It's like a decade and 3D on Linux is still a place where no one gives a serious fsck about. This is life, get over it.

When will linux have a serious Racing Game? A well made (including graphics!) RTS, a reasonably well FPS like FarCry 1, which was released 5 years ago?

The technology is there. PS3 is using OpenGL and it has all the good titles on it. It's just no one gives a flying fsck about Linux gaming because there is no market for it.

Linux users should all stop dreaming with it and go do serious works or get whatever else that can play games on.

Probably when the "Year of Linux on the Desktop" actually arrives.

[Yfrwlf]

Hopefully, the Unigine game project will be something that helps game developers wake up and smell the Linux.

I've bought the Penny Arcade game, and still hope to see more games released for Linux, but a game with a tremendous graphical quality and good playability on Linux could help getting others to make games with cross compatibility in mind.

Always surprised no one mentions this native upcoming Linux game very much:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxJaFy5DUzs

The Penumbra series was pretty interesting with it's different slant on controls, I'll say that much. Definitely a lot of genres missing from Linux gaming though, it's mostly all FPS, so it's good to see something different now and then. Getting tired of FPS. Happy to have seen World of Goo and Penny Arcade to mix things up.

[xav1r]

Always surprised no one mentions this native upcoming Linux game very much:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxJaFy5DUzs

The Penumbra series was pretty interesting with it's different slant on controls, I'll say that much. Definitely a lot of genres missing from Linux gaming though, it's mostly all FPS, so it's good to see something different now and then. Getting tired of FPS. Happy to have seen World of Goo and Penny Arcade to mix things up.

But those are too casual games, made by small studios, where are the AAA RTS, RPGs, racing, fighting games for linux??

[L33F3R]

http://www.walts.com/images/products/AAA4-ENERGIZER.jpg

as we can see. still in the package.

[whizse]

But those are too casual games, made by small studios, where are the AAA RTS, RPGs, racing, fighting games for linux??

Patience, it's probably a good idea to hook the small, indie studios at first. Hopefully when/if they get larger they won't forget who used to buy their games :)

[L33F3R]

Patience, it's probably a good idea to hook the small, indie studios at first. Hopefully when/if they get larger they won't forget who used to buy their games :)

unless they publish for PS3 online (download) or something similar the likelyhood of an indie going big time in todays world is slim to none.

[Wyatt]

But those are too casual games, made by small studios, where are the AAA RTS, RPGs, racing, fighting games for linux??
TA Spring, NetHack, Threaded Programming, Forums and Mailing Lists. ;)

But really, if we just get a slow but steady stream of amazing games like World of Goo, I'll not shed a tear for the loss of eight million sequels and ten half-hearted new properties.

[M1AU]

But really, if we just get a slow but steady stream of amazing games like World of Goo, I'll not shed a tear for the loss of eight million sequels and ten half-hearted new properties.

Oh this is so true!

[alexforcefive]

Always surprised no one mentions this native upcoming Linux game very much:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxJaFy5DUzs

Awesome, hexen!

I jest, it actually looks really nice. Downloading the penumbra demo now, thanks...

By the way, for windows users - Steam is doing a UT3 free weekend this weekend, so if you're struggling to maintain interest in this game maybe you should check it out.

I wish more game developers would start selling linux versions of games, instead of selling the windows version and offering a .bin in some dusty corner of their website.

[Fixxer_Linux]

Patience, it's probably a good idea to hook the small, indie studios at first. Hopefully when/if they get larger they won't forget who used to buy their games :)

True. Shall we remember how DOOM was launched ? Linux didn't exist at those prehistoric times, and they launched it as shareware. I really see shareware in the same spirit as open-source today. I would figure that because of these shareware roots that ID now release each time for linux AND make the old engine available on open-source.

Those guys have really understood how the software will evolve within the next 10 years. Epic has understood just a little.

[Dragonlord]

Unfortunately this won't work like this. This way Linux always gets the old titles, the aged titles. So the ID way helps us not to make Linux gaming stronger. That said neither does the Epic way.

[Irritant]

Why you want an UT3 client for Linux? The game is pretty much horrible, nothing like 2K4. It's an amateur-quality game that is not worth our time.

This is a ridiculous thing to say. Amateur-quality?? Ok, show me one amateur game that could even sniff the quality of UT3.

I've played all of the UT series from day one, and UT3 is easily the best of them in every way possible.

As far as the engine, there is a good reason so many titles are using the U3 engine - it's fantasticaly beautiful, and runs extremely fast.

[L33F3R]

its a high quality game with an abused concept. The deathmatch cow can only be milked so much....

[Fixxer_Linux]

Unfortunately this won't work like this. This way Linux always gets the old titles, the aged titles. So the ID way helps us not to make Linux gaming stronger. That said neither does the Epic way.

Well said.
Concerning ID, they make available for linux their latest titles and open-source the older ones.
So, ID really helps linux gaming. However, I add to your comment that ID-only support is not enough for making linux gaming stronger.

[Aradreth]

A cow can only be milked so long...

fix'd ;)

[Yfrwlf]

its a high quality game with an abused concept. The deathmatch cow can only be milked so much....

Right, hence why games like World of Goo and such are great for Linux, it needs diversity. Most of the graphically advanced/complex/pretty games on Linux right now are shooters, so expanding the genres will loop in more of the "casual gamers", and if Linux can get some more big "hardcore" titles that'd really help as well. Here's looking at you, Blizzard and id, among others.

[L33F3R]

fix'd ;)

84% of the time I post on Phoronix you can bet im not sober :p

[deanjo]

84% of the time I post on Phoronix you can bet im not sober :p
Are any Canucks ever sober? ;)

[Fixxer_Linux]

I just wondering that thing : for releasing windows titles, editors don't wait stabilization and bug fixing. They issue the title and then push patches out to fix the game.
Why, on linux, should we wait 2 years for having a perfectly stabilized game, optimized and smooth ??

Ok, I'm glad that UT3 is "still on it's way" and glad also to think that we'll get a perfectly rock-stable client when it'll be out in 6 months (8 ? 12 months ?), but I'll much more glad to have a less optimized client with which I could play today. I'm not even talking about having had a "unstable" linux client 6 or 12 months ago. For example, the version that has been used for making the screenshots we saw on Icculus blog at the end of 2008 would have particularly pleased me...

[Dosfish]

I'm hoping the delay is because epic wants to have steam on linux before they release or valve is holding it up because they want a bigger catalog of linux games when/if they release. I know I'm an optimist ;)

[Yfrwlf]

There will always be a "reason" for anything and everything.

The fact is, they could have released a Linux client if they wanted to. It's that simple. Linux wasn't highly regarded by Epic for whatever reasons, all you can do as to speculate why. The other UTs had great support, with a penguin on the box even, but that all seems to have been "silenced" even though Linux is growing.

Oh well, I'll stick with ETQW, id titles, older UT games, and the open source FPSes for my FPSing. No shortage of Linux FPSing. :P

[L33F3R]

Are any Canucks ever sober? ;)

And here we are wondering why the rest of the world calls us overly nice and passive. :D

id titles, older UT games, and the open source FPSes for my FPSing. No shortage of Linux FPSing. :P

sure, if you like deathmatch every day for the rest of your life. We seriously need some creativity in FOSS games.

UT3 brings some little things to the table. It essentially remains to be a deathmatch game tho.

[Irritant]

sure, if you like deathmatch every day for the rest of your life. We seriously need some creativity in FOSS games.

UT3 brings some little things to the table. It essentially remains to be a deathmatch game tho.

There will probably always be a market for deathmatch.

What UT3 does is, IMO, perfect deathmatch. It is the ultimate in terms of beauty, balance, and fun for old school DM'ers like myself, while making it a nice, tidy and streamlined little package. There isn't a ton of base content, but the content that is there is extremely well done in every way. IMO UT3 > UT2k4 > Q3 > UT > Q2 > QW, etc.

The only thing UT3 really fails on, and this is true of alot of games since around 2004 and beyond, is scaleability. There are just still a ton of gamers running older hardware that cannot really enjoy the game the way it was meant to be. They did make a nice attempt, but no cigar.

[L33F3R]

There will probably always be a market for deathmatch.

Sure! but like in business the market is only so big. What we see here is a very fulfilled market, to the degree of over-saturation.

It is important to note that your post was in your opinion as you said. In my opinion UT3 is a piece of crap and i thank myself for picking ETQW over it.

Our opinions are worth "1".

[Dragonlord]

UT3 is mediocre, that's correct, but QW:ET is not much better neither. UT99 still steals the cake on this one. It's not like DM can evolve at all. Make some maps, put some balanced guns and let it roll. All novel enhancements like vehicles or *god-help-us* double-jump do not add anything, in contrary, they destroy the simple formula ( as shown in most recent games with DM ). It's just funny how DM game creators try to improve a formula which can not be improved anymore. And because it can not be improved it's old, aged, and boring if rehashed all the time. And as mentioned, we don't need another DM game. If you want DM then play UT99 which is polished and classic and good DM.

[L33F3R]

i agree. u99 set the benchmark for other games.

[Irritant]

I'm just curious, what portions of UT3 do you guys feel are mediocre or "crap"?

Now I loved UT99 as much as anyone when it came out, but when I play it now it feels like what it is, and that is very dated. I also think that Q3 was far more polished a game for it's time, especially in respect to it's artwork and level design.

[Dragonlord]

Graphic wise of course it's better. After all you should expect this from a shader based rendering engine. The problem is though in various gameplay related problems.

For one the weapons have shifted away from the well balanced UT99 ones. They are still the same by definition but their functioning has been altered and not in a good way. They are very sluggish right now. The redeemer is just one big joke. The UT99 redeemer had been fun whereas the UT3 reincarnation is totally clueless about what it wants to be in the end. Other guns also totally lost their balancing. The chain-gun turned into a crappy stinger which has a now a slot rotating secondary fire mode ( which stinks ) instead of a high rotation one ( which actually had a good use ). The rocket launcher also turned into a laugh-piece. In UT99 this had been a 8-loader beast with which you could dish out 8 grenades and explosion radius had been lower to compensate. Now it's a 3-loader and bugged like hell. In half the time it misfires since it doesn't recognize properly when you want to load up or single shot. In fact single shot is like trying to fiddle your dick through a needle hole. So in general funs are a mess.

Another point is the killing of Assault and Domination as game modes replacing them with this Warfare hybrid annoyance. Warfare is supposed to be a merge of Assault and Domination but fails at it. It's one huge mess on each map and dominated more by luck than actual skills.

Furthermore adding vehicles killed the game big time. It's though not the only game suffering from this vehicle-hype which once upon time hit games and suddenly any developer had this gruesome idea of putting vehicles in the game just because you can.

Eventually while the graphics are of high quality the levels are often bad. Now what means bad? A rule of thumb is if you take a screenshot of each spawn point you should immediately know where you are on the map. UT3 horribly fails at this. Maps are overloaded with shiny bits and pieces of level geometry making them look similar around all corners. No real flow builds up due to this similarity. For example in UT3 there is this famous dock map known from UT3 and UT DM. Now although in UT99 the map is bland compared to UT3 in a graphical view it had been well defined visually. In UT3 now it is like all maps totally overloaded with level geometry crap. I played dock to death and know it inside out but in UT3 I got totally lost in the map since each part of it looks the same ( shiny... shiny... stop this fucking shiny-ness! ). It's the very same map just beefed up graphically and it has been totally ruined with it. Not all maps are totally bad though. Some smaller maps have an actual flow and are well designed but the majority is not.

So it's a sum of a couple of design problems which kills the game. It's not crap, that's not the case, it's just mediocre because it killed the original UT99 design with shiny upgrades.

[Irritant]

Some good points there, some I do agree with, some I don't. I won't elaborate too much, because it's probably some things we would never agree on, which is quite natural and fine.

[Svartalf]

Some good points there, some I do agree with, some I don't. I won't elaborate too much, because it's probably some things we would never agree on, which is quite natural and fine.

Heh... His is a game developer's perspective of the game. Developers tend to hold games to a bit higher standard (Their own even if they're honest with themselves... ;) ) and he's holding it to the same standards I am- with me having similar thoughts to his on the matter. It looks "pretty"- but considering that there were vastly more people playing the earlier versions on the servers than with UT3 currently, one wonders if either they tapped out the idea (unlikely) or it's just not as much fun to play as the previous iterations of the concept...

[Irritant]

Heh... His is a game developer's perspective of the game. Developers tend to hold games to a bit higher standard (Their own even if they're honest with themselves... ;) ) and he's holding it to the same standards I am- with me having similar thoughts to his on the matter. It looks "pretty"- but considering that there were vastly more people playing the earlier versions on the servers than with UT3 currently, one wonders if either they tapped out the idea (unlikely) or it's just not as much fun to play as the previous iterations of the concept...

Um, yeah, LOL, mine is also from a game developer's perspective as well :)

The playerbase issue is more likely another one - which is that a very large percentage of gamers still lack the neccesary hardware to run modern games at good enough framerates for online deathmatch. In my experiences as a developer, and supporting a similar game, I am completely amazed at how many people are still using ancient hardware, or crappy integrated Intel chips.

[Svartalf]

Um, yeah, LOL, mine is also from a game developer's perspective as well :)


Sorry... Forgot about your involvement in things of that nature... ;) The comment was made just as I was getting up and sometimes tidbits like that elude me until I've had my first couple of cups of coffee...

Perhaps I should have made it a bit tighter. "From a engine developer's point of view..." might have been a better statement. :D


The playerbase issue is more likely another one - which is that a very large percentage of gamers still lack the neccesary hardware to run modern games at good enough framerates for online deathmatch. In my experiences as a developer, and supporting a similar game, I am completely amazed at how many people are still using ancient hardware, or crappy integrated Intel chips.

Oh, I don't know. Consider that it shipped for Windows, X-Box 360 and PS3. It's not done anywhere near as well as it ought to. And, you'd think that with there being no concerns for resources on the 360 and PS3, there'd be more people playing than there is.

Moreover, I don't think your assessment is 100% for gamers lacking the hardware. That game was decently playable with a 7600GS and above. Most of that audience happen to have that class or better of card because all the other games do well to good on it. Yes, you don't get all the eye candy with anything less than a G90/R700 mid-end card or better, but if the game's no fun without the eye candy, then it wasn't much fun to begin with, right?

Don't get me wrong. The engine itself is amazing with wonderful potential for the studios that can afford the thing and can utilize it to it's fullest potential. I just don't think UT3 itself is much of a game at this point because they missed a few bets along the way.

[Irritant]

You're correct about the Xbox and PS3 factor, I hadn't really considered that aspect. I'm not sure what percentage of players they expected to get from those platforms, but yes, that should be considered disappointing.

Anyway, I've been a long time fan of the series, and deathmatch games in general, and I find it to be my favorite. Of course that is one man's opinion, and because I am developing a game of that genre, sought out the reasons why some here didn't care for UT3.

Thanks for the responses :)

[Svartalf]

You're correct about the Xbox and PS3 factor, I hadn't really considered that aspect. I'm not sure what percentage of players they expected to get from those platforms, but yes, that should be considered disappointing.

Heh... I knew there was something a bit amiss with the game before I'd ever laid hands on a controller for the PS3 version. When your audience isn't overall interested in buying you need to look for answers why. And oftentimes it's not "lack of hardware".


Anyway, I've been a long time fan of the series, and deathmatch games in general, and I find it to be my favorite. Of course that is one man's opinion, and because I am developing a game of that genre, sought out the reasons why some here didn't care for UT3.

My suggestion (fwiw...) would be to find the happy medium between the gameplay fun of UT99 or UT2k3 with what they DID do right in UT3 (I'd have to play it again to point my thoughts on them out to you- but there was quite a few things...they're just not sticking out in my recollection right at the moment...). :D

It's not so much "didn't care for" and more "meh..." in my case. While there are good things about UT3, they lost it in the pursuit of "balancing" the weapons and the eyecandy they piled onto it. It's become more of an engine demo to me than the game I fell in love with 2 revisions back.

And, you're welcome. :D

[mirv]

I think you hit the nail on the head there Svartalf: UT3 is a good engine demo, but it's more that than a game.

[Dragonlord]

Heh... His is a game developer's perspective of the game. Developers tend to hold games to a bit higher standard (Their own even if they're honest with themselves... ;) ) and he's holding it to the same standards I am- with me having similar thoughts to his on the matter. It looks "pretty"- but considering that there were vastly more people playing the earlier versions on the servers than with UT3 currently, one wonders if either they tapped out the idea (unlikely) or it's just not as much fun to play as the previous iterations of the concept...
In fact I did not make this comment from the PoV of an engine or game developer but from the PoV of somebody who grew up with that stuff. In my school time we played a lot during lunch breaks Duke Nukem 3D, Quake ( extension pack including ActionQuake and TeamFortress ) and UT99. So I have a certain 'relationship' with those games. So I based my comment on my view as a gamer in this situation. Engine wise there is not much to complain. The UE3 is a strong and good engine with potential. It's just not what I needed for my project to come true.

[Svartalf]

In fact I did not make this comment from the PoV of an engine or game developer but from the PoV of somebody who grew up with that stuff. In my school time we played a lot during lunch breaks Duke Nukem 3D, Quake ( extension pack including ActionQuake and TeamFortress ) and UT99. So I have a certain 'relationship' with those games. So I based my comment on my view as a gamer in this situation. Engine wise there is not much to complain. The UE3 is a strong and good engine with potential. It's just not what I needed for my project to come true.

Point taken. I'll try to not put words in your mouth in the future... ;)

[Licaon]

Places MojoShader (http://icculus.org/mojoshader/) can be found in use:
Unreal Tournament 3 uses MojoShader with its OpenGL renderer. :rolleyes:

[MAXX]

A well made (including graphics!) RTS

It's almost here and called 0A.D.

http://wildfiregames.com/0ad/

http://www.moddb.com/games/0-ad

I'd even say that it's better than any commercial title I've seen up to now. Just check out all the little details they have. The graphics don't have to hide eighter.




And although UT3 itself is nice, the real opportunities lie within the engine and the modding opportunities it offers.
http://www.moddb.com/mods/project-stealth
Project Stealth anyone?

[Yfrwlf]

sure, if you like deathmatch every day for the rest of your life. We seriously need some creativity in FOSS games.

UT3 brings some little things to the table. It essentially remains to be a deathmatch game tho.

Totally agree, and that was my point, there's a zillion possibilities out there for really interesting games but violence is "cool" to some which is one reason why 3D shooters unfortunately get more attention. Don't worry though, that market is over-saturated so you'll see more creative stuff like World of Goo, it'll just take time. ^^

[Fixxer_Linux]

Totally agree, and that was my point, there's a zillion possibilities out there for really interesting games but violence is "cool" to some which is one reason why 3D shooters unfortunately get more attention. Don't worry though, that market is over-saturated so you'll see more creative stuff like World of Goo, it'll just take time. ^^

Agreed. We also need some good driving simulator. What about asking Sony about porting Gran Turismo to linux ?
After all, the PS3 is not so far of being a linux box, that should be easy...
Ok, Gran Turismo on PC Linux, I'll be dead before it's even imagined by Sony, but a good driving simulator would be really cool...

[storma]

Though not FOSS, have a look at what S2games have done, not your normal FPS/DM. The current release is Savage 2, FPS/RTS. They are also in closed beta of their new title, Heroes of Newerth.

[L33F3R]

Ok, Gran Turismo on PC Linux, I'll be dead before it's even imagined by Sony, but a good driving simulator would be really cool...

Gran turismo was cool for 2 things.

- RPG elements
- Realism

I dont want to play another unrealistic: race your 2 million dollar car over highways in LA. Gran Turismo was cool because you had a goal to fight for and you needed real skill to get to it; but it applied a realistic element. You dont get born with a racecar! My first car was a used Mazda 323 for heavens sakes.

What would be nice to see is a truly multiplatform title similar to this. Perhaps a subscription based MMO (8 player max per race obviously). One that would evolve with the time, like buying someone's used car (similar to GT 1 and 2) or new cars coming out.

By no means an easy feat. But certainly an idea lots of people would go balls over. :D Dont expect sony to flop to linux. remember what happened to eve online. They sold a few copies and decided to screw everyone over. That said, the client was crap to begin with.

[Fixxer_Linux]

What is especially cool with GT is the realism of simulation (car models and physics), except that car movements are stopped when it comes to and dire end, like returning the car. However, this probably could be adjusted as soon as the community will get the GT1/2/3/4/5 code source. :D
There is too often race simulator that doesn't get the physics to high levels (especially the NFS series), which are therefore more arcads games than simulators.

I think torcs would be a simulator. But it really lacks top AAA workart.

[whizse]

Something like Live for Speed? But they don't seem very interested in ports... http://www.lfs.net/?page=faq&search=linux&id=48

[L33F3R]

physics play a big role but dont expect the source to come up as alot of the code needed to make games for PS3,360 ect, is only given to licensed programmers.

need cough.... live for speed? this is the kind of name only china could come up with.:p The game is lacking and the $20 for tracks and some cars kinda turns me off.

[Fixxer_Linux]

physics play a big role but dont expect the source to come up as alot of the code needed to make games for PS3,360 ect, is only given to licensed programmers.

I know. This was a joke ! I don't even imagine Sony giving away the source code of what made them sold millions of Playstations...

[L33F3R]

I know. This was a joke ! I don't even imagine Sony giving away the source code of what made them sold millions of Playstations...

lol i hoped it was :p

[Yfrwlf]

Vdrift seems to be somewhat niceish and is definitely trying to be GT-ish and try for that same realism, but haven't played it in a long time since they don't release binary packages for Linux other than an old 2006 Zero Install package that someone made, and I don't feel like compiling it just because of Linux packaging stupidity, tho I may at some point just to see where it is now. But you're right, Torcs has decentish physics simulation sorta. Any way, I enjoyed the progression in GT as well, starting off in slow cars, working your way up, and improving your skills via the license tests, made for a pretty fun experience.

Realism is nice yes, but I also liked arcade titles like Burnout too.

[MAXX]

I'm not intro racing games.
Well, I'd eighter take some game like "Thunder Brigade" or something hardcore arcade, Mario Kart like game.

[Dragonlord]

Me neither... not fun of shooters or racers in general. Some more adventure stuff would be nice... especially stuff you need your brain for an instance.

[Fixxer_Linux]

I still thinks that Linux needs definitely an exclusive blockbuster title.
I say "exclusive".
This for two reasons : the first is to attract more users with that exclusive blockbuster.
The second reason is for returning the rules : for once, windows gamers would create online petitions to request a native windows client !!! :D

But, after all, is imagining linux covering 50% of market would be so cool. I guess many editors would then give binary drivers, binary programs, binary everything. With binary blobs everywhere, would the linux experience be still the same as it is today ???

[portets43]

I'm not intro racing games.
Well, I'd eighter take some game like "Thunder Brigade" or something hardcore arcade, Mario Kart like game.


checkout supertuxkart.sourceforge.net

they're working on making it a pretty great game.

[Yfrwlf]

I still thinks that Linux needs definitely an exclusive blockbuster title.
I say "exclusive".
This for two reasons : the first is to attract more users with that exclusive blockbuster.
The second reason is for returning the rules : for once, windows gamers would create online petitions to request a native windows client !!! :D

But, after all, is imagining linux covering 50% of market would be so cool. I guess many editors would then give binary drivers, binary programs, binary everything. With binary blobs everywhere, would the linux experience be still the same as it is today ???

I think exclusive anything is pretty annoying/stupid, being locked in to a particular platform is nothing to celebrate, it's directly anti-competitive and takes away your freedom, but unfortunately a sadly accepted practice. Nonetheless, yes, you would get more Linux users by having an exclusive title than one shared with other platforms, but just having a Linux version helps too of course. Linux just needs more "big" titles for it, I'd be happy with that much, whether closed or open source, both would help Linux adoption of course.

As for the binary software comment, once again...what you're running right now ARE binaries. Things have to be binary before you can run them, so binaries are pretty damn good and pretty damn important! You mean the *license* being *closed source*. By the "experience" being different I assume you mean better or worse, and the answer is the more software for Linux, the higher the adoption, and that will directly effect you and make your experience better as you will have more choice, and more software will be created for Linux because Linux will be bigger.

As Microsoft says, once you reach "critical mass", it just grows itself without help. It's the catch-22 in reverse, and it's what Linux is up against with Windows. Because Windows is big, it stays big, but fortunately Linux's licenses or simply its openness has saved it.

Linux is where it is because the software doesn't have a *life cycle*. Closed source software is released, lives for a while, then becomes less and less useful, destined to never improve at all. It gets forgotten, shelved, or deleted. Open source, though, can evolve due to having access to the source, and as such its "controls" (source) can never be removed from the world like closed source does.

So, to answer the question, closed source software is fine and all, it's "instant gratification" in a sense, and that will help Linux to have that as an option for those who want to pay for it. However, in the long run, having the best open source software ecosystem as a whole live on and continue to evolve is the ultimate long-term solution. Closed source might always be around, there's always someone who'd like to charge for what is basically like artwork or a story or whatnot, but when an entire world can contribute to the creation of something instead of a small group or an individual, the result is always *capable* of being the greatest.

Anyone need a hanky after that? Bring tears to anyone? Or just tears of boredom? ^^

[Yfrwlf]

checkout supertuxkart.sourceforge.net

they're working on making it a pretty great game.

And the moral of the above post was: go open source games like SuperTuxKart! One day hopefully you'll be awesomer than Mario Kart. :D

I still think there needs to be a lot more focus on graphics engines though. Start off with Crystal Space or Ogre3D and build on an engine that already has decent graphics capabilities instead of trying to completely make your own engine from scratch. Well, I have no idea if SuperTuxKart is from scratch or not but I wouldn't be surprised.

I mean geez, open graphics drivers + open engine = all kinds of awesome things. If you could tinker with really impressive graphics easily, imagine all the artists you could draw in to your projects who'd actually have something to do finally. Right now artists can't do much really neat detailed stuff because there really isn't anything out there yet that challenges high-end closed source games very much. Once we get open source Oblivion, that's when things will start getting really crazy.

[Dragonlord]

I mean geez, open graphics drivers + open engine = all kinds of awesome things. If you could tinker with really impressive graphics easily, imagine all the artists you could draw in to your projects who'd actually have something to do finally. Right now artists can't do much really neat detailed stuff because there really isn't anything out there yet that challenges high-end closed source games very much. Once we get open source Oblivion, that's when things will start getting really crazy.
Give that man a cigar... he gets the point :D

[Irritant]

I still think there needs to be a lot more focus on graphics engines though.

There has been quite a bit of it with Xreal, Nexuiz, Alien Arena, Sauerbraten etc. All of these engines have made major advancements the last few years, and are at least on par with id tech4 in alot of areas. I don't think it'll stop there, the gap will continue to close as these engines keep adding more modern features.

[L33F3R]

There has been quite a bit of it with Xreal, Nexuiz, Alien Arena, Sauerbraten etc. All of these engines have made major advancements the last few years, and are at least on par with id tech4 in alot of areas. I don't think it'll stop there, the gap will continue to close as these engines keep adding more modern features.

large advancements yes. But as you said only after a few years. Tech 4 is so 2004 :p. FOSS has always been a few years behind. That said, the teams are doing a great job and deserve a handful of support.

[Yfrwlf]

There has been quite a bit of it with Xreal, Nexuiz, Alien Arena, Sauerbraten etc. All of these engines have made major advancements the last few years, and are at least on par with id tech4 in alot of areas. I don't think it'll stop there, the gap will continue to close as these engines keep adding more modern features.

Definitely, but what I'd like to see is less duplicated effort and more focused work on a few good engines that can then be plugged into a game fairly easily. Focus on a few really good engines instead of re-creating one for every game out there. Ogre3D for instance is fairly impressive feature-wise, you should see some of the screenshots and such if you haven't. Here's one of probably hundreds of YouTube vids showing off some of Ogre3D's features http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woHZRUlOQqo

[Yfrwlf]

I'm not sure what Blender uses built-in, I thought it used Ogre3D or Crystal Space, I know it *can* use either one, but any way here are some games made with it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgTVRVAAHrk

Here's "Oblivion" created with Blender hehe, no clue if they're open sourcing their creation though, but Blender's way of adding "logic blocks" in order to quickly create a game is very exciting to me, that's exactly the kind of thing that is needed, making it easier to create content (check the other Krum vids too):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_FajK_KuVo&feature=related

Geez there are tons of new Blender games on Youtube now, older one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXT2q2EY94I

Also really cool being able to jump right into your game at the push of a button in Blender.

[Dragonlord]

Ogre3D is a render engine not a game engine. It's good at what it does but for a game you need a complete package. Having to tie all ends together on your own is not going to get FOSS out of the so-last-year hole it unfortunately is in right now ( not a problem of FOSS itself but of the system ).

[L33F3R]

Ogre3D is a render engine not a game engine. It's good at what it does but for a game you need a complete package. Having to tie all ends together on your own is not going to get FOSS out of the so-last-year hole it unfortunately is in right now ( not a problem of FOSS itself but of the system ).

agreed.

The pieces of the puzzle exist. Each price is gold plated at that. The one missing piece is some game logic and binding.

Every attempt to unify ogre with other parts seems to be a failure because:

a. game logic doesnt exist in ogre
b. not everyone can agree on what physics engine to use, networking ect.

[xav1r]

So is UT3 still going to linux? Is Icculus waiting for the 2 year anniversary? :D

[hax0r]

Still waiting here, it's going to be flipping awesome once it gets ported.

[L33F3R]

Still waiting here, it's going to be flipping awesome once it gets ported.

if it gets ported ;)

[hax0r]

if it gets ported ;)Why??? :( :(

Any news on the client version?

[hax0r]

Hmm, somebody is waiting for UT3 patiently, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBVmfIUR1DA :D.

[storma]

Damn, it must be an awesome game.. :o

[Dosfish]

I'd hate to see how he would react to playing the GAME (which I just lost)

[d2kx]

Hmm, somebody is waiting for UT3 patiently, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBVmfIUR1DA :D.

In case somethings things that this is common for German gamers.

This guy is well known over here because of several fun videos he made, mostly not computer related. This is just one of them, it's not "real".

[deanjo]

lol, just occurred to me that M$ contributed to kernel code before UT3 for linux was released.

[superppl]

lol, just occurred to me that M$ contributed to kernel code before UT3 for linux was released.

The only thing that could top that is a AAA linux exclusive title.

(And then DNF is released tomorrow as a linux exclusive :p )

[L33F3R]

i dont see why epic would even do it now. The PR was so bad few die hards would buy it anyways.

[tracius01]

there are too little servers to play it properly, will probably see a boost of servers once the linux client get released

[curaga]

I actually played UT3 for the first time yesterday, on a friend's PS3. Figured I had to try what was soo amazing. Nothing, really, don't feel bad for not getting the game :P