Wishlist for Porting Projects (Pt. 2) [Archive] - Page 2

GreatEmerald

05-31-2009, 06:00 AM

Might and Magic series (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Might_and_Magic#History) (including Meroes of Might and Magic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroes_of_Might_and_Magic#Games)). They are now owned by Ubisoft (http://www.ubi.com/), but was initially created by New World Computing. None of the games, with the exception of the world-famous Heroes of Might and Magic III: The Restoration of Erathia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroes_of_Might_and_Magic_III), have Linux ports.

Then Unreal II: The Awakening (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreal_II:_The_Awakening) and Unreal II: eXpanded MultiPlayer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EXpanded_MultiPlayer). I believe Epic Games (http://www.epicgames.com) shouldn't mind giving enough code to port it to Linux, knowing that these games are currently the only ones that don't run natively on Linux.

Moreover, I have to mention Command and Conquer: Red Alert series games: 1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command_%26_Conquer:_Red_Alert), 2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command_%26_Conquer:_Red_Alert_2), and 3 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command_%26_Conquer:_Red_Alert_3). None of them have a Linux port and are now owned by Electronic Arts (http://www.ea.com/).

Finally, the last games I'd like to see with Linux ports are Red Faction series games: 1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Faction) and 2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Faction_II). They were created by Volition (http://www.volition-inc.com/).

Dosfish

05-31-2009, 07:06 AM

heroes of might and magic 2 has a open source re-implementation of the engine that actually works pretty well @ http://sourceforge.net/projects/fheroes2/, heroes 3 has one too @ http://antypika.aplus.pl/vcmi/forum/portal.php

Linux-user

05-31-2009, 07:13 AM

What are these my friend? I'm not aware of anything.

Real commercial Linux games are games that don't require you to buy a Windows version, using WINE or downloading an installer, but games you can buy and then just install and play it.

Games like Doom 3, Quake 4 or Prey are no real Linux games, because you still have to buy the Windows version and downalod an installer.

Games released by LGP, Runesoft or Loki are real Linux games.

(Not directed at you...)
Having said that, if you're interested in seeing things like that, you need to be honest with yourselves and buy the titles in question, including the X3 title already published. Doesn't matter if you've bought it for Windows in a past life. It's a differing SKU. The industry isn't formed with what anyone calls "common sense". The fact that iD still seems to produce it for Windows with an unofficial "patch" is unusual. Epic seems to have quit that practice and BioWare hasn't done any more than NWN that way- more because of publisher interference than anything else that I can tell. You buy the game for the platform you want to run on it.

If you want Linux games, you have to BUY them. Otherwise we have to be visibly larger than the Mac userbase in a way that's shown in IDC type figures- which won't happen for a long time yet to come because they measure userbase in "units sold" instead of what is actively being used. MS' figures are dead wrong- you can take about 10% of the market MS claims to have and apply it to the Linux/*BSD side of things because they claim 'shipped' and for every non DIY Linux machine, there's a concomitant Windows install claimed in those figures that's just not accurate anymore. Buying Linux games gives the publishers and studios numbers that they can show to the big boys to get better deals.

You're so right and that's the reason why I've bought the Linux version of Jack Keane on release date, although I already owned the Windows version of Jack Keane (also bought on release date). So I bought the same game two times for the full price. I really don't mind to pay for a second time, because this is a completely different release from another publisher on another platform. In my opinion it's very important to buy the Linux version if you already own the Windows version, because othetwise the big companies would say: "See how many Windows versions are sold, but no one buys the Linux version. It's just not profitable to release games for Linux. It's a bad idea to release games for Linux."

I also hate WINE for this same reason. Using WINE people can buy the Windows version for a few Dollars / Euros / Pound and play the game on Linux. A lot of people won't buy the Linux version, because they think it's too expensive. They only look at the price and see the price of the Linux version is eight times as high as the price of the Windows version, so they buy the Windows version to run the game in WINE. This is the worst thing a user of the Linux platform can do. People, this means another sale for the already too populair Windows platform and another lost sale for the Linux platform! All of those Windows games played through WINE are counted as "games which are played on Windows". Nobody knows you play it on Linux, those big guys think it's played on Windows and count it as such.

Another thing: Why would a developer ever think about releasing games for Linux? Why should they put any money and effort into releasing their games for Linux? Users of the Linux platform got WINE and they can run the games using WINE. Why should a developer put any money and effort into releasing teir games multiplatform if they can also develop their games only for Windows and let the community of WINE do all the work for free. Users of the Linux platform will just buy the Windows version and play the game using WINE. Result: The developers still sells his games to users of other operating systems, but doesn't have to put any money and effort into it. Microsoft keeps saying: "See how populair our operating system is. See how many games are sold for our platform. To make any money you have to develop your games for Windows, other platforms aren't profitable."

In my opinion WINE is a bad piece of software that doesn't do any good to Linux. It only makes gamers buy Windows versions and thus making the Windows platform more populair. I've never used it and I won't be using it. I want to have software that runs native on Linux and buying Windows versions is the worst thing a user of Linux can do. Don't look at the price, but think about which operating system you want to support. Buy the Linux version, even though it's more expensive or you already own the Windows version.

I also hate the Linux releases of games like Doom 3, Quake 4 and Prey. I don't want a downloadable installer, because I don't want to support Windows, so I don't want to buy the Windows version. I want to support Linux and I want to buy a native Linux version.

Ontopic:
In the Windows times I and a friend of mine always played Worms World Party. If this game would be released for Linux we would both buy the game at the day it gets released.

Normally I want the newest version of games, instead of old games. Windows has all those impressive looking games with great physics and sounds and such. Linux has older games with old graphics and such (I completely understand you don't have the money for expensive new games).

For Worms it's completely different. I don't need those new versions. If there'll ever be a Worms game for Linux, please let it be an old version. Those new 3D version of Worms aren't any fun. Some games just have to be 2D and Worms is one of them.

Great work Svartalf, any news about upcoming shadowground survivors? It seems to stalled in beta stage.

I also want to know. I was really looking forward to buy this game on the 30th of March. Is there any new about the current status? Any new release date?

Oh and how about the Iron Sky (http://www.igios.com/index.php?news=6&lang=en), just curious becouse it will be developed by the same studio that start to make port for Shadowgrounds survivors...

Wow, that sounds really impressive. Sounds like it could be a really nice game.

L33F3R

05-31-2009, 07:43 AM

Beyond Good & Evil ! Awesome game ! :o

its a multiplatform title already. Good game aswell.

And welcome to phoronix petifrancais :)

rah_

05-31-2009, 08:59 AM

Because nobody thought about them.

Ascendency

I've tried several times, unsuccessfully, to get them to allow a port of that game back when it was still a going concern. Nowadays, I'm not quite sure WHAT The Logic Factory's doing

I would also love to play Ascendency. Unfortunately, regarding what The Logic Factory are up to now, google reveals the disappointing path they've taken:

http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Awww.logicfactory.com

rah_

05-31-2009, 09:18 AM

Odin

05-31-2009, 09:33 AM

@Linux-user
There would have been a higher impact if you had only bought the linux version. The publisher would say: "The linux version increased our sales by xx%, woot!" :D

piotrek.tt

05-31-2009, 09:44 AM

Hello... i would like to see Guild Wars 2 being somehow ported to linux. Game is still in developement phase, so it could be good time look into it.

First Guild Wars works fine on wine, but with sequel - it would be nice if the producers added some more linux compatibility!

Tens of Thousands of people play this game on daily basis and having linux backup for the sequel would be great advantage for swithing to linux! I don't ask for much - but making it easier to run on linux would be good for start.

Second thing, if you are interested in signing petition or creating something like this - just to insist on producers, let them know that linux gamers community is rising in numbers, and we demand our beloved games being linux friendly!

Cheers.

DavidNielsen

05-31-2009, 09:44 AM

Demigod looks very nice, perhaps that could be a target for porting?

Also there has yet to be a comment on Ground Control and Crusader: No Remorse as posted earlier.

AdrenalineJunky

05-31-2009, 10:30 AM

@Svartalf: what about becoming a game dev for a game currently in production? ( or did i miss your thoughts and results on this ? )

while porting old games is a good thing(TM), buying them again for Linux is not, as long as i can run them with WINE ( guys/gals don't start the WINE vs. native flame-war please :D )

i feel that having a future game with a Linux version would impact the gaming media/ecosystem/etc better than being always one step behind, where it always looks that 'those crazy Linux/Mac guys are so nostalgic, playing that 7 years old Windows game'
being there from the start could shape a better future for the engines too, like not using some proprietary non-portable middle-ware and etc

and a good example happened recently, as ET:QW was developed for Linux almost at the same time, and the release was a bit later, while UT3 had Linux as an afterthought and is still not done

while i love that i can use wine to play some of my favorite games, buying those ports is the best way to get developers to release thier newer games - they have to see there is a market.

and to take caster as an example - one of the game ports that came about as a result of svartalfs work and the phoronix threads - they stated in a blog recently that they were suprised to see linux sales are starting to rival thier non-steam related windows/mac sales.

due to that you can not only bet that if they come out with another game they will release it on linux, but if you can get a few of those examples you have some leverage on bigger titles as well.

L33F3R

05-31-2009, 10:30 AM

ahh stronghold crusader/extreme. If you are looking for a lightweight game that would sell its that. Might be a tough port because its very windows dependant. Tropico is also a good game and if i remember correctly it had been ported to mac. Both published by T2 (after they acquired GOD). Dont know if it means anything but serious sam was published by GOD aswell.

After how sony pulled eve from Linux i doubt we will see many MMO's on Linux for a while.

Demigod is another one of those T2 games....
*edit* Gas powered game :(

- I just noticed "stronghold" is also ported to mac.

DMJC

05-31-2009, 12:27 PM

One more thing. With Wing Commander 4 and 5. There are versions which exist with dvd quality footage. The games have a LOT of FMV in them. There was never a copy of Wing Commander Prophecy dvd edition released on windows. So the only versions available to gamers right now are hacked editions with the better footage. A proper port of the games would let people play without hacks making linux an attractive platform for fans of the series. Wing Commander 4 dvd edition is selling for $90 US+ on ebay at the moment, and the dvd edition requires a creative DXR2 mpeg 2 decoder card (or a hack) to play the movies. Again something which a native port could easily cleanup making Linux the superior platform for Wing Commander. Wing Commander 3 was rereleased in 1997 for windows and the sourcecode for that should be kicking around on the backup tapes (and the copies that wcnews.com made of them). There was a console port of wing commander 3 made for the 3do and the playstation. The 3do version reportedly has better quality cutscenes and some extra scenes missing from the pc version. Adding in some of those animations could create a "perfect" version of wing commander 3 again something only Linux would have. There's been a lot of interest in 3-5 recently with people trying to get them running in vista/dosbox/windows 7. Wing Commander 3 especially has problems with both. The Dos version has inferior sound (midi) whereas the windows version crashes in XP/Vista/Windows 7.

Marix

05-31-2009, 01:17 PM

My favourites from the given list would be Civilization IV and TrackMania. Drakensang would also be nice to have.

Another game I would really like to have on Linux is FlatOut: Ultimate Carnage. I uses Microsoft Live for multiplayer, so. I fear that might be a problem.

dashcloud

05-31-2009, 01:30 PM

I'm not sure what the situation with Sierra's back catalog (I'd like Missionforce: Cyberstorm and Outpost) is because I think they are now owned by Vivendi.

One of the small developers I bought games from in the past was Exosyphen(sp?) Studios.

xav1r

05-31-2009, 08:01 PM

Since someone mentioned a MMO (darkfall), what about another upcoming MMO called Mortal Online? http://www.mortalonline.com/

Odin

05-31-2009, 08:14 PM

Demigod looks very nice, perhaps that could be a target for porting?
First Stardock's Impulse has to be ported (it's their Steam-like app).

Slash

06-01-2009, 12:07 AM

Some ideas:

Title - Developer / Publisher
--------------------------------------------
Painkiller - People Can Fly / Dreamcatcher
Bioshock - 2K Games / 2K Games
Far Cry - Crytek / Ubisoft
Baldur's Gate Series- Bioware / Interplay
Icewind Dale Series - Black Isle / Interplay
Planescape: Torment - Black Isle / Interplay
Grim Fandango - LucasArts / LucasArts
Homeworld Series - Relic Entertainment / THQ Games
Company of Heroes - Relic Entertainment / THQ Games
Dawn of War Series - Relic Entertainment / THQ Games
Galactic Civilizations Series - Stardock / Paradox, Strategy First, Stardock
Space Empires Series - Malfador / Strategy First
FEAR Series - Monolith / Vivendi, Warner Bros.
Thief Series - Looking Glass, Ion Storm, Eidos / Eidos
Fallout 1 & 2 - Black Isle / Interplay
Aliens vs Predator Series - Rebellion, Monolith / Fox, Sierra
Operation Flashpoint, ArmA Series - Bohemia Interactive / Codemasters
Hearts of Iron Series - Paradox / Strategy First
Crusader Kings - Paradox / Strategy First
Syberia Series - Micriods / Micriods

Any and all available Loki assets- A lot of it is either extremely hard to find and/or difficult to work with on modern systems.

I know it's been mentioned a million times, but I really wish Steam had a native Linux client. Of course they'd need per-platform support in their store and all that, but I think it'd end up helping get other things ported. Steam has a ton of games available on it and some do already have Linux clients. They just aren't available via Steam, of course.

A lot of people just using Steam for everything nowadays. It's easier to login to one thing and have access to all your games, rather than a billion CDs, CD keys, patches, etc. I was against this for the longest time, but I have come around... Having even a small Linux library on Steam would be awesome. They have almost 700 games on Steam. I didn't count, but I don't think it'd be completely crazy to say at least 50 have native Linux clients already (there are nearly that many idsoftware and idsoftware-related games alone with Linux ports). And what if someone were to update all the Loki assets and put them on "Linux-Steam" for one packaged price? It'd be awesome.

The problem is Steam isn't normal software. It is an ever-changing beast. They would really need full time, in-house developers dedicated to Linux to make it work. They can't just contract someone to port it once and be done with it.

ReveArek

06-01-2009, 07:44 AM

1. Space Trader >> http://www.playspacetrader.com/

They had Linux port but abandon it after relasing boxed versions for Win and Mac. GPLed Source code is avilable on their page.

2. Iron Grip: Warlord >> http://igwarlord.isotx.com/

They mention linux in their forums but dont have developer to port it.

Both titles are idTech3.

Nexus6

06-01-2009, 09:34 AM

Melcar

06-01-2009, 09:54 AM

Apopas

06-01-2009, 10:13 AM

Any and all available Loki assets- A lot of it is either extremely hard to find and/or difficult to work with on modern systems.
That's true and it's a pity coz they are great games.
Also, there is a project http://projectmagma.net/ now which continues to work on Myth series and especially on Myth2 which is one of the best RTS ever imo and they do great job. Updated graphics, made the game to run in new platforms and create new modules and even new units. The community is still very active. Just yesterday they released a newer beta version. But all these just for windows and macosx, while there is a Linux port of this great game :(
The reason is that they don't have the source code of the Linux port, they say it has been lost. How is this possible?

Svartalf

06-01-2009, 10:43 AM

I'm surprised to see Freespace (1 + 2) on this list because I've been playing it for years. A viable Linux port has been available via http://scp.indiegames.us/ and plays very nicely. Unless we are talking about something other than Descent: Freespace 2.

1) The viable port requires you have legit assets- the only thing legit is the engine right at the moment.
2) The SCP is at distributing NON-legit assets.
3) Those non-legit assets are better than the originals in many ways.
4) It would be nice to see legit assets tied together with the SCP
stuff being sold via GoG for the same price as the stock originals.

deanjo

06-01-2009, 10:51 AM

It has already been explained that what those guys are doing is not totally legal. You have to either already own the game or pirate it.

How do get the idea that it's not totally legal? Does that mean ioquake3 is not totally legal as well? What about the crapload of Duke3D engines?

curaga

06-01-2009, 11:39 AM

Myst Online guys say they're releasing the win source "soon". As the assets aren't released, maybe it would be a good port target.

Melcar

06-01-2009, 12:34 PM

How do get the idea that it's not totally legal? Does that mean ioquake3 is not totally legal as well? What about the crapload of Duke3D engines?

Read Svartalf's replies on the subject. I'm just repeating what he already wrote. Even if you don't think so, at the end you either need to already have the original game or pirate it in order to use fs2open (and getting the full game from them is still pirating). Make a fully legit Linux port of the game available so people can properly make use of the mods, or better yet (if possible), make the original game available along with the improvments; his way the game won't simply be a staraight port of the old game and make it a little more worthwile.

Svartalf

06-01-2009, 01:09 PM

How do get the idea that it's not totally legal? Does that mean ioquake3 is not totally legal as well? What about the crapload of Duke3D engines?

In this case, ioquake, the engine is legal. But, that's an engine, not a game- a game typically is an engine piece coupled with assets such as graphics, music, videos, etc. In the case of ioquake3, you are NOT licensed to distribute Q3:A assets with it (hence, OpenQuake, etc...).

In the case of the SCP2, they distribute an installer that downloads said assets if you don't have them and allows you to download "enhanced" cutscenes, etc.- which isn't legal. With what the studio did, they chose to allow me to give my friend a copy- person to person, face to face. Not allow someone to download even "ehanced" assets- anything remotely resembling what that installer does is not legal, period. Doing what they're doing is going and breaching Interplay's publication rights on that part of the game- and the part that MAKES it a game.

Svartalf

06-01-2009, 01:15 PM

The reason is that they don't have the source code of the Linux port, they say it has been lost. How is this possible?

If Bungee didn't merge the changes Loki did with respects to Myth2 into the source tree, then it's entirely conceivable, if you believe they actually managed to get the code back to everyone responsible, that the codebase got misplaced or destroyed while in Bungee's hands. It's not a dead, loss, though- if the source is accessible, it can be redone if needs be.

admax88

06-01-2009, 01:31 PM

I would really like to see IL-2 Sturmovik ported to linux. It's arguably one of the best combat flight sims out there.

I seem to recall some talk with the developers that its not entirely out of the question.

Course if we get that ported the next challenge is convincing Natural Point to make linux drivers for the Track IR ;)

reavertm

06-01-2009, 01:31 PM

Quick note about Gothic 3.

JoWood has rights to code and they actually shared the code with selected group of developers from community already (after they parted ways with original game developer - Piranha Bytes) - and that's how we've got Gothic 3 Community Patches.
It was actually win-win situation for them in that case.
Patches from 1.6 to 1.72 are even marked as game OFFICIAL patches.

JoWood was in pretty bad situation (in terms of image - look up on wikipedia :P, game still sold quite well) when Gothic 3 was released - game was delayed, buggy, performing badly on nearly every machine.

Some members of Jowood Gothic 3 forum (http://forum.jowood.com/forumdisplay.php?f=254) came up with initiative to patch the game for themselves.

They started tweaking data/config files and after some time, closely working with Jowood representatives on forum they were even given access to full source code (of course guarded by NDA).

I think it may be possible to get Jowood blessing to create Gothic 3 Linux port.
Actually - if played well - it could be even possible, at least in theory - to make Linux port for upcoming Arcania - Gohic Tale (a'ka Gothic 4).

New developer - Spellbound - I asked them already on forums about theoretical possibility of creating Linux port and problem with Linux gaming - they said engine is multiplatform and supports OpenGL already and they clearly didn't felt hostile against Linux - just noted that it's only up to publisher - Jowood - to decide about target platforms.

For now, PC and XBox-360 has been somewhat confirmed. Expected release date would be Winter 2009, but I hope it will be delayed - Gothic 3 and addon has been rushed terribly and came up underdeveloped and I hope they learned the lesson already.

hochglanz

06-01-2009, 02:12 PM

Yes. No conflict-of-interest items with LGP. Sorry. :D

(Not directed at you...)
Having said that, if you're interested in seeing things like that, you need to be honest with yourselves and buy the titles in question, including the X3 title already published. Doesn't matter if you've bought it for Windows in a past life. It's a differing SKU. The industry isn't formed with what anyone calls "common sense". The fact that iD still seems to produce it for Windows with an unofficial "patch" is unusual. Epic seems to have quit that practice and BioWare hasn't done any more than NWN that way- more because of publisher interference than anything else that I can tell. You buy the game for the platform you want to run on it.

The question was why X3 - Terran Conflict was not on the list and honestly I did not get the answer of svartalf...
Who exactly has a conflict-of-interst with who?
I bought X2 and X3 from LGP and I'm very happy with it. I also bought the X2 port for Mac OS X and I can say the LGP port is far better!
But again.. I'm confused about the answer. And what has ID, Epic and Bioware to do with Egosoft's X3 - Terran Conflict?

Svartalf

06-01-2009, 03:06 PM

The question was why X3 - Terran Conflict was not on the list and honestly I did not get the answer of svartalf...

I can help with some projects, but not others. I am NOT going into competition with LGP on publishing or running counter to their porting efforts. I am still under contract for some things and there are business dealings and projects that I kind of need to maintain a good relationship with them for now

Any of this is to get stuff published and out the door. If they self-publish, I do it outside of LGP's influence. If they don't want that, I bring it to LGP for the purposes of publication. It's not a discussion of what LGP may/may not (I can't discuss anything not announced) have in progress of development. :D

Who exactly has a conflict-of-interst with who?

I have minimal inputs on what does/does not get ported by LGP- I only do porting work for them. Michael Simms is the one making those sorts of deals. In order for me to work on what you ask for, I'd have to go to Egosoft directly...there's the conflict of interest.

I bought X2 and X3 from LGP and I'm very happy with it. I also bought the X2 port for Mac OS X and I can say the LGP port is far better!

I'm sure the X2/X3 team will appreciate that. They worked hard to make that happen. :D

But again.. I'm confused about the answer. And what has ID, Epic and Bioware to do with Egosoft's X3 - Terran Conflict?

Heh... Everything and nothing.

The X3 version asked for is something that'd be up to LGP's deal-maker to arrange, not me. He KNOWS everyone probably wants it... :D

But...the big problem is people BUYING it. You're not the problem and the comment wasn't directed at you or anyone that bought like you did. The big problem is with people going "meh...it's too expensive and I can run it in WINE"- and it's hurting our position trying to get games on Linux.

It's why BioWare isn't likely to do DragonAge for us.

It's why Atari nixed NWN2 for Linux even though there was evidence that we were a viable demographic.

It's part of why we don't have UT3.

It's part of why we don't have official versions of iD's stuff (No, the only official version of iD's games were the trial ballon of the DooM pack, the Quake Packs, and Quake3:Arena. Q3:A sold only about 200 copies for Linux retail- never mind that 15-20% of the Windows sales were actually Linux people buying and converting. Mainly because they couldn't wait for the Linux version to be out.) We've not had an official version for quite some time now.

It's not a foregone conclusion that you will see the X3 follow on or Sacred2. Not because they're hostile towards us, but because the deal's got to do decently or they're just not going to give us the time of day.

It only does decently if it sells.

vtorri

06-01-2009, 03:26 PM

i like the old action and adventure games and here are some games i liked a lot:

some Bitmap Brothers' games (Xenon 2, Speedball 2, God)
terminal velocity
Quest for Glory 1 and 2, Gabriel Knight 1 (Sierra Online)
Another World, Prince of Persia, Flashback
Day of the Tentacle, Monkey Island 1 and 2, Zak Mac Kraken
Dungeon Master, Eye of the Beholder, Lands of Lore 1 and 2, Ultima 7
populous
Privateer 1 and 2
Titan (2d pinball game, which had a damn fast animation)
some good Shoot'm Up (xenon2 that i mentioned above, R-Type, Battle Squadron, Thunder Force 3, etc...)

and Captain Blood which was one of my first game :)

just some ideas...

regards

Apopas

06-01-2009, 03:55 PM

It's not a dead, loss, though- if the source is accessible, it can be redone if needs be.
Then why they didn't do it all these years? As far as I remember they had said a linux port was in the work but then they say about the loss :(
It's hard to have the native Linux game and to be force to use the wine version...

Aradreth

06-01-2009, 04:16 PM

Day of the Tentacle, Monkey Island 1 and 2, Zak Mac Kraken

This. Oh and this. (http://www.lucasarts.com/company/release/news20090601.html)

Edit: just remembered the games in the quote should all be playable under scummvm (I know MI & DotT do)

L33F3R

06-01-2009, 05:05 PM

Then why they didn't do it all these years? As far as I remember they had said a linux port was in the work but then they say about the loss :(
It's hard to have the native Linux game and to be force to use the wine version...

lol can i just SCREAM Ventrillo ?

Linux client in development for 5+ years? maybe 6 im not sure. If they are not going to bother building it I suggest they remove it from their site. It just gives us false hope. :(

Svartalf

06-01-2009, 05:29 PM

lol can i just SCREAM Ventrillo ?

Sore subject, for the reasons you outline... :D

Apopas

06-01-2009, 06:13 PM

lol... who's Ventrillo? :cool:

Wyatt

06-01-2009, 06:19 PM

Wow, I actually hadn't realised you were an "Indy" porting effort, Svartalf. It's awesome to see that you've managed to pull it off, too. Mad props! I had just sort of always assumed you were some important decision-making element within LGP, so this is really neat. Inspiring, even. Anyway, I had a bunch of ideas as I read through this thread, so... (And yes, I tend to get progressively more long-winded. :)

Moonpod's Games - A good, respectable Indy dev, Mr. Robot is pretty sweet, and I recall that Starscape was fairly addictive as well. Maybe I'm just biased; they host and maintain Shoot the Core!. They can't be bad guys. :D
Gamebryo - I note you have both Morrowind and Oblivion listed, but it might be a worthy goal to target the engine that drives them both (along with many other games). Thing's never run well under Wine, either.
UFO (aka X-COM) - It was honestly my sincere hope that this property would become forgotten and not suffer another travesty like that third-person trash heap (in truth, I have this sort pipe dream scenario wherin I actually acquire the rights and donate it to the community at large). In any case, even a straight port that fixes the most egregious bugs in the DOS version (lol, 80-item crunch), would be pretty amazing. But if we're to talk of enhancements, well...I have a LOT of ideas, but this is neither the time nor the place. ;)
Silent Hunter 4 - A submarine tactics game? Sure, why not? I remember when a mate was playing kind of recently and thought to myself "Wow, this is really gorgeous." UbiSoft's child.
Speaking of which, I sort of imagine that there are a good number of smaller developers in Europe and Asia that would be amenable. I hear that Linux is gaining traction with people sick of the so-called "Microsoft Tax". My pick would be those rad Swedes at SimBin. Someone was looking for decent racing games, after all.
GP Legends - Ahh, masochism has never been so elegantly cruel. Too bad Papyrus was rolled up into the Sierra/Vivendi/Activision/Blizzard monstrosity. I'm lead to believe that essentially translates to "hopeless cause" :(
Gunbound - Now moving Eastward, we have one of the most accomplished Worms clones I've played, Softnyx has the international publishing rights. Good luck with their Engrish, though.
PangYa - Another notch Eastward, Ntreev's hilariously silly, pseudo-anime-themed golf game. The servers were taken down for a little while, but recently came back online States-side under the auspices of, well, Ntreev USA.
同人ソフト - Ahh, at last, we have hit the limits of both geography and geekiness; The Land of the Rising Sun. "Doujinsoft," for the initiate, are a part of a larger movement; a peculiar breed of limited-run, zero-profit, and love that results in what is often a derivative work of something else (in the artistic and character sense; the Japanese actually seem to have a knack for making their own assets if not original characters). From this strange and, at some level, insular community of amateurs comes a great many STG and fighters, with the occasional Beat 'em Up, Visual Novel, etc. to spice things up.

As far as porting goes, a company called Rockin' Android recently set up shop that seems to be pitching their business strategy as being dedicated to localising these games for an English-speaking audience. I've honestly been meaning to cast some feelers at them myself, because even the remotest prospect of playing Melty Blood or Ragnarok Battle Offline natively is just too good to pass up. I'd say going through them would be the way to get your contact. Only problem is they're brand new and yet unproven.

Linux-user

06-02-2009, 05:31 PM

@Linux-user
There would have been a higher impact if you had only bought the linux version. The publisher would say: "The linux version increased our sales by xx%, woot!" :D

True, but when Jack Keane was released I was still using Windows. Then I switched to Linux and I bought the game for the second time.

I know it's been mentioned a million times, but I really wish Steam had a native Linux client. Of course they'd need per-platform support in their store and all that, but I think it'd end up helping get other things ported. Steam has a ton of games available on it and some do already have Linux clients. They just aren't available via Steam, of course.

A lot of people just using Steam for everything nowadays. It's easier to login to one thing and have access to all your games, rather than a billion CDs, CD keys, patches, etc. I was against this for the longest time, but I have come around... Having even a small Linux library on Steam would be awesome. They have almost 700 games on Steam. I didn't count, but I don't think it'd be completely crazy to say at least 50 have native Linux clients already (there are nearly that many idsoftware and idsoftware-related games alone with Linux ports). And what if someone were to update all the Loki assets and put them on "Linux-Steam" for one packaged price? It'd be awesome.

I hate steam (and digital distribution in general). For me the availability of retail editions is mandatory when buying a game. That's why I'm so happy with LGP and Runesoft: They've got real retail releases for Linux. No download version or such nonsense, but a nice box with a penguin printed on it, the system requirements for Linux printed on it, a manual inside the box with instructions how to install the game on Linux and the game on a disc with the text "Linux CD ROM" or "Linux DVD ROM". That's what I call a game release and that's what I want to pay for.

L33F3R

06-02-2009, 05:45 PM

I hate steam (and digital distribution in general). For me the availability of retail editions is mandatory when buying a game. That's why I'm so happy with LGP and Runesoft: They've got real retail releases for Linux. No download version or such nonsense, but a nice box with a penguin printed on it, the system requirements for Linux printed on it, a manual inside the box with instructions how to install the game on Linux and the game on a disc with the text "Linux CD ROM" or "Linux DVD ROM". That's what I call a game release and that's what I want to pay for.

I hate steam also. The world should take a word out of l33f3r's journal and have the game downloadable online and be able to optionally purchase a disk copy of the game should you want to have a hard copy. Most of the cost would be the mailing. 30 cents for a dvd case, 50 cents per DVD, electricity, labels. :D Then you have the option to play as soon as it downloads. Win-Win.:D

L33F3R

06-02-2009, 05:47 PM

Might be a long hard shot but what about Final Fantasy 11? Just because square is both the developer and publisher. Im not sure how well the game is doing right now but one would assume its on the decline as far as subscriptions.

whizse

06-02-2009, 05:51 PM

That's why I'm so happy with LGP and Runesoft: They've got real retail releases for Linux. No download version or such nonsense, but a nice box with a penguin printed on it, the system requirements for Linux printed on it, a manual inside the box with instructions how to install the game on Linux and the game on a disc with the text "Linux CD ROM" or "Linux DVD ROM". That's what I call a game release and that's what I want to pay for.

Fortunately, for those of us who see no need to have those round plastic husks lying around or prefer not to pay for shipping, LGP does downloadable games now :)
http://blog.linuxgamepublishing.com/2009/06/01/downloadable-and-rental-games-now-available/

whizse

06-02-2009, 06:04 PM

I hate steam also. The world should take a word out of l33f3r's journal and have the game downloadable online and be able to optionally purchase a disk copy of the game should you want to have a hard copy. Most of the cost would be the mailing. 30 cents for a dvd case, 50 cents per DVD, electricity, labels. :D Then you have the option to play as soon as it downloads. Win-Win.:D

Isn't this exactly what Tux Games are offering? Of course, it is the most expensive option...

L33F3R

06-02-2009, 06:10 PM

yea.. they stole my journal them @#$%'ers. i wondered who took it. :D

LGP rentals? you gotta be kidding me....

BlueJayofEvil

06-02-2009, 07:05 PM

Old games now owned by EA might be a no-go, but maybe that's not true:

Dungeon Keeper series (Bullfrog, now EA)
Dune series (Westwood, now EA)

I'd also like to see some older EA games (Command & Conquer Gold, Red Alert 1, Dune 2000) ported. Not sure if EA would allow it, but I know C&C Gold was released as freeware for the 12th anniversary awhile back. Maybe they'd allow that game then?

L33F3R

06-02-2009, 08:14 PM

I'd also like to see some older EA games (Command & Conquer Gold, Red Alert 1, Dune 2000) ported. Not sure if EA would allow it, but I know C&C Gold was released as freeware for the 12th anniversary awhile back. Maybe they'd allow that game then?

yea i'd like to see these but unfortunately its unlikely. C&C certainly revolutionized the genre.

BTW welcome to phoronix BlueJayofEvil :)

lots of new people on the porting thread :p Alot of people like me who stay in the shadows until they feel the need to register. :D

r1348

06-02-2009, 08:41 PM

yea i'd like to see these but unfortunately its unlikely. C&C certainly revolutionized the genre.

BTW welcome to phoronix BlueJayofEvil :)

lots of new people on the porting thread :p Alot of people like me who stay in the shadows until they feel the need to register. :D

So true, this also proves that Linux gaming do really gather popular attention, when given concrete perspectives.

L33F3R

06-02-2009, 08:53 PM

Svartalf I know you couldn't give me the figures for SG but is there any figures you can give us to indicate the scope of linux gaming?

MAXX

06-03-2009, 12:26 AM

X3: Terran Conflict, X - Beyond the Frontier and X-Tension

Stuff like the Anno series or
the latest Settler game, "Rise of an Empire"

Sims 3...

Silver

Sacred 2 would be sweet.

Natural Selection 2 (they said that they could port it after release, but if LGP approached them... well, I guess they wouldn't be unwilling to cooperate)

Baldurs Gate 2

Tropico (aye, el presidente)

Startopia (I love this game so mutch, it's my all time favorite and not running in wine)

Maybe getting the Devs of Mortal Online to port it would be nice too. It uses the Unreal 3 Engine after all. Although I think that porting a MMO is kinda unrealistic.

Also I love seing Sins of a Solar Empire on that list. It's a great game.

And don't tell me about supporting Linux Games, I own all the LGP titles except for NingPo MahJong, Candycrusher and Jets'n'Guns.
And I will buy Jets'n'Guns one day.
I even own X3 twice and might buy a collectors edition additionally.
Yes, I don't own any Windows version of X3, I own 2 Linux versions.

Seeing Drakensang in the list is also pretty great and I'd buy it for sure. But I'd buy almost any ported game anyways.

DMJC

06-03-2009, 01:06 AM

How about getting the publishing rights to descent 1/2/3? I know someone who has a copy of the Loki sourcecode of Descent 3. If you could get the rights to publish it again he'd probably be willing to give it to you. Obviously you'd need the legal right to sell the game. Still it's a pretty easy title to get done since the port is finished...

niniendowarrior

06-03-2009, 06:26 AM

It's awesome what's been done thus far. Let us keep our efforts and help out on this list. :)

filsd

06-03-2009, 08:47 AM

Hi all,

I read Phoronix for more than a year, but now I felt inclined to post something.. =)

One game I would like to see is Lumines. Lumines has a (freeware, I think) windows version that don't play nice on wine (tested some months ago).

I do not know if it was mentioned but Aquaria is a really nice indie game. It would be nice to have it too. (But aquaria runs on wine).

Thanks for the efforts! =)

PS: sorry for any English mistakes.

Pahanilmanlintu

06-03-2009, 09:34 AM

- snip -
Having said this, AC was ported by Loki (and well at that) to Linux
- snip -

Apparently really well indeed, if price is anything to go by: http://www.amazon.com/Meiers-Alpha-Centauri-Planetary-Linux-Pc/dp/B00004TBBX :D

SMAC is one of those games that i'd like to go back to, the definitive in civilization-like games imho. While FreeCiv is good too, it gets old kinda quickly. Still a modern SMAC remake with better AI and maybe balance tweaks would be better than the original. Might buy a new port nonetheless tho.

L33F3R

06-03-2009, 10:45 AM

Hi all,

I read Phoronix for more than a year, but now I felt inclined to post something.. =)

Well greetings :)

Your English is just fine :D

Svartalf

06-03-2009, 11:42 AM

Apparently really well indeed, if price is anything to go by: http://www.amazon.com/Meiers-Alpha-Centauri-Planetary-Linux-Pc/dp/B00004TBBX :D

THAT has GOT to be a typo- but boy, the royalties on it would be maahvelous... ;)

Apopas

06-03-2009, 12:35 PM

Hi all,

I read Phoronix for more than a year, but now I felt inclined to post something.. =)

Welcome! It seems gaming is an awakening thing... :D

L33F3R

06-03-2009, 03:53 PM

I think it might be alot deeper than porting games. Seems it might be linux gaming in general. Even the old classic games are getting people fired up. That said, we are a more enlightened group. :)

Apopas

06-03-2009, 06:26 PM

That said, we are a more enlightened group. :)
Well, that's for sure :cool:

jonwil

06-04-2009, 02:21 AM

Leisure Suit Larry is 100% out, as is Space Quest, Kings Quest and Police Quest. They were all published by Sierra On-Line. Which was swallowed up by Vivendi and are now part of the giant maw that is Activision Blizzard. However, for the early games, you can play them using SCUMMVM or a similar interpreter (assuming you have the data files that is)

C&C series (and Dune series) are likely to be a no-go. Owned by EA plus (at least for the older games) the source may no longer exist having been lost when Westwood disappeared.

Myst (at least the first one and the later Riven) are right out unless you can convince Apple to do a port of QuickTime to linux. Both games used QuickTime for a large chunk of game stuff (and its not a matter of "replace QuickTime with FFMPEG").

I also didn't see any mention of The Bards Tale (classic RPG). Who owns it these days? My old manual has an Interplay logo on the cover but that doesn't mean anything given how many people bought various bits of Interplay IP and given how many early Interplay games are owned by other publishers (back before Interplay became a publisher itself)

One game I mentioned a while back, Sentinel Worlds: Future Magic, thats owned by EA and is therefore unlikely to be a goer. Although being a older DOS Game, it probably runs just great in Dosbox :)

Rollercoaster Tycoon (also mentioned earlier) is owned by Atari so thats out. But for those who want a similar game, keep an eye on Theme Park Builder 3D which is a RCT clone only better. (100% free too)

Question: For a lot of "big" titles, people keep saying "before <big company> would let us port <popular game>, they would want money up front". Is it just a case of money (i.e. if someone went to EA or Ubisoft or SEGA or whoever and said "here is <briefcase full of money>, please let us port <cool and popular game> to Linux" would that be enough or is there more than just money involved?

hoorider

06-04-2009, 02:44 AM

I'd like to mention Baldur's Gate II because is one of my favourite PC games and it has 2 big problems:

It doesnt work well in modern versions of windows
I cant find a copy on stores

Other game that would be great to have a port is Final Fantasy VIII in my opinion.

AdrenalineJunky

06-04-2009, 03:51 AM

lol... who's Ventrillo? :cool:

http://www.ventrilo.com/

curaga

06-04-2009, 05:25 AM

Myst (at least the first one and the later Riven) are right out unless you can convince Apple to do a port of QuickTime to linux. Both games used QuickTime for a large chunk of game stuff (and its not a matter of "replace QuickTime with FFMPEG").I meant Myst Online, not the single player series. While it may use QT, it's also getting open-sourced soon; so there's almost guaranteed to be a linux port one day. It's the magic of dropping source out, seems like we linux guys like to have games on our systems :p

The issue would be the assets, and maybe running some servers. Also if a port, preferably an OSS one, was done by a professional, it would likely appear a lot sooner.

Apopas

06-04-2009, 05:50 AM

http://www.ventrilo.com/

Ah! This Ventrilo...

Wyatt

06-04-2009, 10:39 AM

Ah, dredged up some more! Leaned fairly hard on the Indies in this batch.

Knytt Stories - Might not have great sales (freeware, lol), but it's a good Indy game. Can't hurt to just have more titles under your belt, I guess.
Gish 2 is currently under development and they've stated they'll have a Linux port, but eh, maybe they need a hand.
Cortex Command - The devs at Data Realms have an OS X port already, and have entertained the idea of a Linux port. (http://www.datarealms.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13972&start=0)
Game Maker - There are a lot of games out there using this, including a lot of solid Indy titles. Not a game per se, but if GM users could output ELF binaries, that would be pretty sweet.
Dwarf Fortress, if only for the chance to work with Tarn and Zach. That must be a damn trip... ;)
Armadillo Run - 3D physics game with some design heritage from The Incredible Machine. His FAQ claims he plans on OS X/Linux builds, but it's been a while. Maybe he needs help.
Supreme Commander - Don't get me wrong, GPG didn't support SC nearly so well as Cavedog did with TA. In fact, I'm quite miffed about that. But to their credit, they did come decently close to an experience that was as fun as Total Annihilation. THQ is the publisher.
Blockland - Discovered this one the other day. The developer acknowledges that it runs serviceably in Wine, but I know I'm not interested in paying for the Windows version. On the other hand, I love Lego, so a port would be an almost instant buy.
Mount & Blade - Saw on Steam; looked pretty cool.
Crayon Physics Deluxe - Phun may be more thorough, but Crayon Physics definitely has appeal.
Darwinia/Multiwinia - I've been curious about these for a while. Looks interesting, reminds me of Giants for some reason.
Speaking of which, Giants: Citizen Kabuto! Interplay....hmm... Boy, it sure would be swell to have a build of Giants that actually runs reliably.... :(

Oh yeah, and Audiosurf would be sublimely magnificent. I think I recommended that Dylan actually seek you out at one point; from what he's said, he has a multiplatform clone engine already, so it might be really quick work.

djack

06-04-2009, 10:49 AM

Dwarf Fortress, if only for the chance to work with Tarn and Zach. That must be a damn trip... ;)

There is already a Linux version. It isn't exactly publicised on the main page, but if you do a search for linux on their forum i seems easy to find. I meant to have a look at this a few weeks back, thanks for reminding me about it.

Armadillo Run - 3D physics game with some design heritage from The Incredible Machine. His FAQ claims he plans on OS X/Linux builds, but it's been a while. Maybe he needs help.
Agreed, I would love to run this natively.

Darwinia/Multiwinia - I've been curious about these for a while. Looks interesting, reminds me of Giants for some reason.

Darwinia definately has a native version, available to buy from Introversion themselves. (As does their other great games - Uplink and Defcon). I'm not certain about Multiwinia though.

ausmusj

06-04-2009, 12:56 PM

Titan Quest, and Titan Quest Immortal Throne

Please!

The THQ lead engine programmer has already stated "Actually Titan Quest started its life as an OpenGL game and we later converted to Direct3D. I don't think it would be too hard to port back to OpenGL (and the game doesn't utilize .NET, only the Quest Editor), but the reality is that THQ probably doesn't have a whole lot of financial incentive to release the Linux version." (http://www.titanquest.net/forums/questions-developers/8817-will-there-linux-version.html), so maybe this would be a great low-hanging fruit?

I would actually buy at least 3 copies of the Linux version (1 for my system, 1 for wifes, 1 for oldest sons), so that's something at least. :)

-James

Olly

06-04-2009, 04:13 PM

Wyatt

06-04-2009, 07:18 PM

Darwinia definately has a native version, available to buy from Introversion themselves. (As does their other great games - Uplink and Defcon). I'm not certain about Multiwinia though.

Woah, totally missed that. I knew about Uplink and Defcon, but I'm subject to fits of selective blindness. :( Thanks!

Nexus6

06-04-2009, 08:21 PM

It has already been explained that what those guys are doing is not totally legal. You have to either already own the game or pirate it.

Okay - just found that in the mound of replies. That said, I do own both Freespace and Freespace 2 - bought especially when the Freespace port became viable on Linux. Given the newer space games available for Linux (X2, X3, Vendetta) and the Freespace 1/2 ports, I don't see the financial success of a commercially bundled Freespace release. The best I could see in this area is to compile up the FS2 port, stick it on a CD with an installer and allow a purchase of the Windows original for the data files.

By the way, does anyone have any ideas on recovering data from unreadable CDs. My original Descent/Descent2 CDs no longer mount... :(

Wyatt

06-04-2009, 08:45 PM

The best I could see in this area is to compile up the FS2 port, stick it on a CD with an installer and allow a purchase of the Windows original for the data files.

I think that's sort of the idea. Make it legal to distribute the assets by selling them. At least that's what I thought....

AdrenalineJunky

06-04-2009, 09:59 PM

what about sacred 2, the first one was ported so the company might be open to allowing a port of the second one.

Also what about guild wars and perhaps guild wars 2 when its nearer the time by ncsoft if i remember.

sacred 2 would be a conflict of interest, svartalf works for LGP (who ported sacred gold) but is doing this effort independently - so if that one is going to be done, it'll more then likely have to be LGP that does it.

and that will probably depend on how sacred gold sells for linux.

Svartalf

06-04-2009, 11:23 PM

what about sacred 2, the first one was ported so the company might be open to allowing a port of the second one.

The deal with Ascaron would have to be with my OTHER gig, LGP (Note the tag on my handle...while I'm involved with some of their workings, I'm not the guy making the porting deals... ;) )- as such, in order for me to be in a position to arrange a port of Sacred 2, I would have to go behind Michael Simms' back on that one. Not gonna happen. :D

Now...having said this, if you want an even chance at Sacred 2, I would suggest that you buy the current Sacred Gold, if you've not already done so and get any of your Linux using friends that might be interested in that genre to do the same. I can state up-front, without getting in trouble, that any prospects of a deal on the sequel will be provisional upon the first one doing decently enough in sales.

No, I don't see a dime from the sales on that title. But, like most people that ask for Sacred 2, I want the sequel to be something I can play on my Linux box, not my PS3... :D

Also what about guild wars and perhaps guild wars 2 when its nearer the time by ncsoft if i remember.

It's a subject of possible discussion... Unfortunately, it'll be added to the "maybe" list- AAA MMO's are going to be a tough sell unless the publisher's already friendly with us (and we'd have something resembling support like we do with the ones we do have... ;) )

Maybe if we get a few more projects under my and other people's belts with this little endeavor we can make those less long-shots and more possibles...

Svartalf

06-04-2009, 11:26 PM

I meant Myst Online, not the single player series. While it may use QT, it's also getting open-sourced soon; so there's almost guaranteed to be a linux port one day. It's the magic of dropping source out, seems like we linux guys like to have games on our systems :p

The issue would be the assets, and maybe running some servers. Also if a port, preferably an OSS one, was done by a professional, it would likely appear a lot sooner.

I want to see the source show up before adding it to the list proper. If so, it'd be one of the items up towards the top- for the reasons you state. Assets are as important as the game code. Without rights to them, you don't have anything.

Olly

06-05-2009, 04:31 AM

The deal with Ascaron would have to be with my OTHER gig, LGP (Note the tag on my handle...while I'm involved with some of their workings, I'm not the guy making the porting deals... ;) )- as such, in order for me to be in a position to arrange a port of Sacred 2, I would have to go behind Michael Simms' back on that one. Not gonna happen. :D

Now...having said this, if you want an even chance at Sacred 2, I would suggest that you buy the current Sacred Gold, if you've not already done so and get any of your Linux using friends that might be interested in that genre to do the same. I can state up-front, without getting in trouble, that any prospects of a deal on the sequel will be provisional upon the first one doing decently enough in sales.

No, I don't see a dime from the sales on that title. But, like most people that ask for Sacred 2, I want the sequel to be something I can play on my Linux box, not my PS3... :D

I actually bought to copies one for my girlfriend and one for me, its a great game but a bit dated so sacred 2 which is brand new would be great, and surely sell better, i tend to be put of buy a lot of linux games mainly because of there age, but still buy a few.

It's a subject of possible discussion... Unfortunately, it'll be added to the "maybe" list- AAA MMO's are going to be a tough sell unless the publisher's already friendly with us (and we'd have something resembling support like we do with the ones we do have... ;) )

Maybe if we get a few more projects under my and other people's belts with this little endeavour we can make those less long-shots and more possibles...

I can understand this although i think there are already quite a lot of linux player / users only because i come across them quite often in game, and i know there are some linux specific guild, the game work really well with wine however its a shame because to ncsoft we would all show up as windows users.

shame there not a way of reporting back to the games company that your using wine to play there game that way they would get some stats on how many player are not using windows, they would also be able to say if we get 10,000 people using wine we will make a native port or somethng along those lines.

djack

06-05-2009, 06:50 AM

shame there not a way of reporting back to the games company that your using wine to play there game that way they would get some stats on how many player are not using windows, they would also be able to say if we get 10,000 people using wine we will make a native port or somethng along those lines.

Not really. 10,000 using Wine is 10,000 customers that they don't have to do anything else for. The people willing to use Wine to play the game are not going to go out and buy another copy just for a Linux port, and the poeple who won't/can't use Wine are an unknown minority (as far as their sales figures are concerned).

L33F3R

06-05-2009, 07:26 AM

Not really. 10,000 using Wine is 10,000 customers that they don't have to do anything else for. The people willing to use Wine to play the game are not going to go out and buy another copy just for a Linux port, and the poeple who won't/can't use Wine are an unknown minority (as far as their sales figures are concerned).

if u cant use wine you obviously dont know how to install software.

But honestly you make a valid point. Older games both are a major putoff due to age and typically run well in wine. Because they run well in wine there is little incentive to purchase the same damn thing again.

Fixxer_Linux

06-05-2009, 07:43 AM

What about "Pariah" ?
This game old of 2 years was made using the UT2004 engine. This could be relatively easy to port.
However, Pariah hasn't been the game of the year and has been rapidely forgotten. I took me at least 2 two and some googling to remember the name of that damn game.
There was a petition for porting Pariah to linux, but there was no answer from the editor of Pariah.

Probably better to forget, but it's at least worth a post...

Olly

06-05-2009, 08:04 AM

Not really. 10,000 using Wine is 10,000 customers that they don't have to do anything else for. The people willing to use Wine to play the game are not going to go out and buy another copy just for a Linux port, and the poeple who won't/can't use Wine are an unknown minority (as far as their sales figures are concerned).

Yeah i guess thats true, i some times wonder how many sales the linux games companies makes, would be interested if they posted them at some point.

Also thought of another game what about independance war 2 edge of chaos might be another possibility.

Svartalf

06-05-2009, 08:12 AM

I actually bought to copies one for my girlfriend and one for me, its a great game but a bit dated so sacred 2 which is brand new would be great, and surely sell better, i tend to be put of buy a lot of linux games mainly because of there age, but still buy a few.

Unfortunately, the people doing the porting, LGP, myself (through LGP and independently...), and others, oftentimes don't have a big say in what does/doesn't get ported. The studios and publishers do. The older games are what are often accessable in the first place. While you might be "put off", any time you are, you're not helping your position ANY. They have seen some of the results of that thinking you're espousing there and it's costing us down the line.

If you like the game, at this stage, you need to divorce the concept of "age", "cost", etc. because they're not going to listen to anything but sales figures. We've got very, very poor sales figures in our past on things that should have been blow-out sellers. Because we couldn't wait for the Linux version. Because it was "old". Because it was "expensive". As a result, what you see available is sort of the wages of that thinking. :D

Heh... If Caster keeps going as well as it's currently doing, coupled with a few of the other indie titles I'm about to start propositioning, I'll have better ammo for LGP and myself to see quite a bit better deals in the medium term future.

I can understand this although i think there are already quite a lot of linux player / users only because i come across them quite often in game, and i know there are some linux specific guild, the game work really well with wine however its a shame because to ncsoft we would all show up as windows users.

WINE's not our friend in that regard. It's part of WHY I say what I've always said about it. It's roughly analogous to the Win3.11 compatibility mode on OS/2- and that was part of what doomed THAT OS to obscurity. (There's definitely other factors there, but that was one of the biggies that didn't help...)

shame there not a way of reporting back to the games company that your using wine to play there game that way they would get some stats on how many player are not using windows, they would also be able to say if we get 10,000 people using wine we will make a native port or somethng along those lines.

Unfortunately, that wouldn't help things. As others have pointed out- if they have that figure, it's 10k people that were' just happy fine with using what they were already producing. That's 10k people that're willing to settle for something that could get broken on a moment's notice or a change in the game (Witness what happened to all those World of Warcraft Linux users- and they were just going to screw all those subscribers until a big enough stink was brought about over it... With WINE, you could be one game update away from that sort of thing with no recourse. The box typically says WINDOWS, not WINE- if it doesn't work, you won't get a refund on it. ;) ).

Why settle on that score? If you're going to settle, why not do things that might help lessen having to settle in the medium to long term?

Apopas

06-05-2009, 08:15 AM

Not really. 10,000 using Wine is 10,000 customers that they don't have to do anything else for. The people willing to use Wine to play the game are not going to go out and buy another copy just for a Linux port, and the poeple who won't/can't use Wine are an unknown minority (as far as their sales figures are concerned).

What do you mean they don't have to do anything else for?
Probably they won't buy a new copy just for Linux but most of these guys would buy the Linux version at first place if they had the chance. Also, as far as I have seen and believe, a lot of guys are eager to pirate the game they can play only under wine, while they prefer to buy the games which have native ports since there is always the manner "You don't support me, so I don't support you".

Svartalf

06-05-2009, 08:22 AM

Yeah i guess thats true, i some times wonder how many sales the linux games companies makes, would be interested if they posted them at some point.

I can't reveal any current sales figures that I know about, but...

Q3:Arena sold only approximately 200 copies in the past. Unfortunately, with the other figures we've seen on that game, the number SHOULD have been something on the order of about 20k or so. Why? Because people couldn't wait three or so weeks on the Linux version, bought the Windows version, and "patched" it with the conversion binaries. This was one of the things that sealed Loki Games' fate, by the way. It's also why we don't have official Linux versions of anything from iD- it's all the same, buy the Windows version and "patch" it.

And, I can't reveal too much about LGP info, but...

My titles that I've worked on haven't done as well as they ought to. We're seeing more bittorrent flow of them than sales- to the point that we've got people that have infringed copies trying to get technical support on the stuff.

X3 or Sacred- I do know that they're doing "okay" right at the moment, but could be doing better on their sales at this point.

Caster...heh...much, much better, but not QUITE good enough yet.

Also thought of another game what about independance war 2 edge of chaos might be another possibility.

I'll go back through the thread and add it, probably this weekend. It's in the "maybe" pile for now.

Svartalf

06-05-2009, 08:26 AM

What do you mean they don't have to do anything else for?

I believe they were referring to situations with World of Warcraft, City of Heroes, etc.

You don't have a choice in the matter with those games. You either run it under WINE or VirtualBox with it's new 3D support if the game uses OpenGL or enough of the D3D shim to work right...

Svartalf

06-05-2009, 08:28 AM

But honestly you make a valid point. Older games both are a major putoff due to age and typically run well in wine. Because they run well in wine there is little incentive to purchase the same damn thing again.

Depends on the game.

Tropico doesn't work well.
Diablo doesn't really work well. (But Diablo II does... My only WINE game right at the moment...)
There's others.

WINE doesn't do QUITE as well at this stuff as everyone thinks it does. It's getting better all the time, but it's NOT the answer for things people make it out to be.

djack

06-05-2009, 08:34 AM

What do you mean they don't have to do anything else for?

If your customers are already running the game under Wine, what commercial reason is there to put in the time and expense of a Linux port?

Probably they won't buy a new copy just for Linux but most of these guys would buy the Linux version at first place if they had the chance.

Yes, but why bother with a port if those same people would just buy the Windows version instead?

Also, as far as I have seen and believe, a lot of guys are eager to pirate the game they can play only under wine, while they prefer to buy the games which have native ports since there is always the manner "You don't support me, so I don't support you".

Pirates aren't customers.

Apopas

06-05-2009, 08:38 AM

Q3:Arena sold only approximately 200 copies in the past. Unfortunately, with the other figures we've seen on that game, the number SHOULD have been something on the order of about 20k or so. Why? Because people couldn't wait three or so weeks on the Linux version, bought the Windows version, and "patched" it with the conversion binaries. This was one of the things that sealed Loki Games' fate, by the way. It's also why we don't have official Linux versions of anything from iD- it's all the same, buy the Windows version and "patch" it.
That's so distressing :( and I suppose the same happened with Unreal Tournament as well, right?

X3 or Sacred- I do know that they're doing "okay" right at the moment, but could be doing better on their sales at this point.

Caster...heh...much, much better, but not QUITE good enough yet.
Do you have any idea what was the most succesful port so far?

djack

06-05-2009, 08:45 AM

That's so distressing :( and I suppose the same happened with Unreal Tournament as well, right?

Nope.

The Linux clients for UT were all paid for by Epic. Orignal UT client came out quite a while after the game. Clients for 2003/2004 were on the same disk as the Windows client.

UT3 has been either been work in porgress or stuck in a legal limbo for quite a while.

Apopas

06-05-2009, 08:49 AM

So what Loki had to do with UT? They made just the update?

djack

06-05-2009, 08:58 AM

So what Loki had to do with UT? They made just the update?

Loki AFAIK had nothing to do with UT. Epic have contracted Icculus to do the UT3 port, I can't remember who did the other two (may have been internal to Epic). ALl the financial risk and investment of the port is with Epic.

Loki had a contract with Id to produce a Linux version of Q3A with Loki bearing an amount of the risk. I'm not too sure of the exact relationship between Loki and Id but it seems to have been somewhere between the Icculus/Epic and LGP/whoever relationships. Contractual stuff like that just makes my eyes glaze over so I can't be precise. It has been discussed several times before on here though.

Apopas

06-05-2009, 09:09 AM

I'm asking coz Loki has UT in its products.

Anyway, a game that is in the list and I believe would be very succesful is Drakensang, because:
i) It's new with great graphics.
ii) Doesn't play well under Wine.
iii) RPGs aren't common in Linux but they have a very viable market.
iv) It's unique in its kind because it uses a great system we haven't seen in computer RPGs for over 12 years.
v) This system is Germany's child and very succesful there and Germany is a big Linux market.
vi) The company behind it isn't big.

Olly

06-05-2009, 09:15 AM

I can't reveal any current sales figures that I know about, but...

Q3:Arena sold only approximately 200 copies in the past. Unfortunately, with the other figures we've seen on that game, the number SHOULD have been something on the order of about 20k or so. Why? Because people couldn't wait three or so weeks on the Linux version, bought the Windows version, and "patched" it with the conversion binaries. This was one of the things that sealed Loki Games' fate, by the way. It's also why we don't have official Linux versions of anything from iD- it's all the same, buy the Windows version and "patch" it.

And, I can't reveal too much about LGP info, but...

My titles that I've worked on haven't done as well as they ought to. We're seeing more bittorrent flow of them than sales- to the point that we've got people that have infringed copies trying to get technical support on the stuff.

X3 or Sacred- I do know that they're doing "okay" right at the moment, but could be doing better on their sales at this point.

Caster...heh...much, much better, but not QUITE good enough yet.

I'll go back through the thread and add it, probably this weekend. It's in the "maybe" pile for now.

I am really suprised caster is doing well i saw the video and was not overly impressed, perhaps i should re-evaluate that one glad to hear you will be doing more indie games i really like world of goo and rain slick precipes of darkness which are both great indie games in fact world of goo is my favourite bought linux game, i also purchased x3 but not really played it yet to busy working through sacred.

I am suprised people dont get the native versions if i have bought a game and like it i will get the native version for better performance when available and because games can break with different versions of games.

been avoiding windows games as much as possible probably make an exception for guild wars 2 though only because i got so into the game.

djack

06-05-2009, 09:18 AM

I'm asking coz Loki has UT in its products.

So it is .. I had no recollection that it was them. Such a long time ago, and I have difficulty remembering last week.

L33F3R

06-05-2009, 02:58 PM

Diablo doesn't really work well. (But Diablo II does... My only WINE game right at the moment...)

doesn't that make you a hypocrite? The guy who advocates against the use of wine is the same guy using it. Thats like telling ur children not to do drugs and then you go in the garage and cut lines.

thats cold man :mad:

rah_

06-05-2009, 03:22 PM

If your customers are already running the game under Wine, what commercial reason is there to put in the time and expense of a Linux port?

...

why bother with a port if those same people would just buy the Windows version instead?

There seems to be very little incentive to port existing games. However, one of these days an industry player is going to release a AAA title with Ubuntu support on the same level as Windows support, from day one. And they're going to clean up.

If you're a Linux games player and you've got a choice between buying a AAA title that'll only play in WINE and a AAA title that plays natively, which are you going to buy? If you're the managing director of an industry player, would you want the company selling the multi-platform game to be you, or your competitor? There will come a point in the future when the big houses find they have a choice to make: support Linux or lose out.

This goes back to collecting WINE stats, which would be a great idea. I wonder if Valve haven't already been doing this what with the native-Linux reverberations around Steam recently. It might well be that Valve are the company to clean up.

Svartalf

06-05-2009, 03:45 PM

doesn't that make you a hypocrite? The guy who advocates against the use of wine is the same guy using it. Thats like telling ur children not to do drugs and then you go in the garage and cut lines.

thats cold man :mad:

Excuse me...

1) If you can't compare what you're doing with your "competition"...
2) I didn't BUY the game with the intent of playing it on WINE. It was a damned gift from my brother back when the game came out (Do the math on the release dates, L33F3R...)
3) It's been quite a while since I've played it at all. It's sitting on my HD, unused. I've been playing things like Sacred, Uplink, Prey, Caster... You get the idea.
4) In comparison, it doesn't work as desired- it's a make-do that I admit to so that there's little question that I've tried it.

The only thing cold here is the person making drug analogies and calling the other person "cold" without knowing the whole story. By the by, I don't tell them not to- I tell them that it's not the answer, which it isn't.

It doesn't help you get Linux gaming if you're playing something like WoW on it. It doesn't help you if you're playing Crysis on it. If you've got an old game like Diablo II that isn't at all likely to be ported, ever, it's an "okay" thing. (If it gets people onto Linux by providing a way to play select things, it's serving it's real purpose. If you're using it to play new stuff, you have to ask yourself which is more important... Something I've already done. I don't DO WINE for that stuff. If it's not being evaled for porting, it's not on a machine at all, WINE or VirtualBox XP. If it's not Linux and it's not on Wii or PS3, it doesn't get bought by myself or others on my behalf- period.)

That's ALL I've EVER said. If you want to read more into it, that's fine- just please don't be putting words into my mouth.