Mobility Radeon HD 3870 / M88 drivers... :(

[Poop Loops]

Been trying to get this damn thing to work for days now. I bought this Alienware laptop thinking it will last me a while and I'll orgasm every time I boot it up.

Long story short, I know not to use the proprietary drivers. I installed Jaunty 64bit first, struggled, switched to Intrepid, struggled even more, and now I'm back to Jaunty 64bit. At least the failsafe settings actually are fail safe...

I tried Intrepid to see if 9.3 drivers + older Xserver would work, but I couldn't get it to work. Thought about going way back to Hardy, but I figured at least I'm seeing the login screen with Jaunty (and correct monitor resolution), so whatever...

In any case, I am trying to use the radeonhd drivers since I saw that support for M88 cards has been added. I couldn't find anything about regular radeon drivers working with the card, so I went with the hd "version". Can't get it to work, tried the regular radeon, can't get it to work either.

For the record, this is what I have done to install the radeonhd drivers:

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RadeonHD

I've messed with all kinds of settings in my xorg.conf file, but it seems that only vesa will actually do anything. At this point all I want is 2D support, so that I can at least keep making my crappy little 2D gravity simulator and not have it run choppy on a $1700 machine... I was hoping to upgrade it to 3D over the summer by using OpenGL via SDL, but I guess I'll either have to wait for Karmic or use Vista.

Oh, I'm not dead set on Ubuntu, either. I'm willing to try another distro if for some reason it has some sort of magic code in there or something. I tried Archlinux once, didn't go so hot, but I'd be willing to try a different distro again no problems. Unless, of course, going back to Intrepid or Hardy is the better choice. I'd do that too, no problems.

[Poop Loops]

Well, I have an update. I installed the new 2.6.30 kernel, and using the radeon drivers works now. glxgears gives ~400fps, which is over twice as good as vesa's ~165fps.

So it's not perfect yet, but beggers can't be choosers. I'm still really grateful that there are people who work on open source stuff on their own time.

I guess I'll have to stick with this for now, unless anybody knows of anything better I could try.

[bridgman]

Poop Loops, you should have the open source drivers configured automatically (using radeon plus 6xx/7xx drm support backported to the Jaunty 2.6.28 kernel) as part of the Jaunty installation. If that doesn't work for you, please let us know what happened and consider filing a bug against Jaunty.

What happened with the Catalyst driver ? Did you install by building packages and run aticonfig --initial before starting X ?

[Kano]

@bridgman

It is impossible to compile fglrx against a pure 2.6.30 kernel without this KERNEL patch:

diff --git a/arch/x86/mm/tlb.c b/arch/x86/mm/tlb.c
index 61ddfa0..3d26c0b 100644
--- a/arch/x86/mm/tlb.c
+++ b/arch/x86/mm/tlb.c
@@ -279,6 +279,7 @@ void flush_tlb_page(struct vm_area_struct *vma, unsigned long va)

preempt_enable();
}
+EXPORT_SYMBOL(flush_tlb_page);

static void do_flush_tlb_all(void *info)
{


I definitely mentioned that long before 2.6.30 final release. It is up to a ATI developer to submit that patch (because the binary part is compiled against it). Even with all known tricks used fglrx does not really work good with 2.6.29+ - dmesg is flooded with lots of messages every time you run a 3d app. So do what Nvidia does and provide at least OFFICAL patches if you don't manage to fix it in time for a full driver release. Also due to your stupid decision to drop fglrx support for older devices you have to provide a workaround for 9-3 or create a new driver for all those devices.

[bridgman]

Understood... but Jaunty uses 2.6.28, doesn't it ?

[Kano]

It does, but read correctly that HE did install 2.6.30.

[bridgman]

Agreed. I guess we're talking about different points in the story - I was trying to find out what happened on the original install of Jaunty, since nothing else should have been required to use the open source drivers.

EDIT - I have updated the radeonhd 6xx/7xx instructions to mention that Jaunty includes suitable drm code out-of-the-box.

I'm guessing that following the installation instructions for radeonhd ended up over-writing the original drm and that the upgrade to 2.6.30 was to get a 6xx/7xx-friendly drm back. Reverting the libgl1-mesa-dri package should have done the same thing - I think - and also allowed unmodified fglrx to work. Just guessing though...

[Melcar]

@ Kano
Here we go again. What part of "we do not support pre-release kernels" don't you get? Support for 2.6.29 is down the line, so don't even start. This being the case, why should ATI provide patches? If users want to use the driver with other kernels, they can do the patches on their own.

@ Poop Loops
If you want to use fglrx (which is advisable, given all the money you spent on that lappy) you need to go back to Jaunty's stock kernel.
The easiest way to get the driver working is with Ubuntu's own installation tool; go to System>Administration and click on "Hardware Drivers". This will install the 9.4 drivers.
If you want the latest 9.6 you have a couple of options. Either should work, but this is what works best for me (it's a copy/paste from a guide I have on another forum, so mind the editing):

1.- Got to ATI's website and donwload the driver. The same installer works for both 32bit and 64bit systems.

2.- Open a terminal and move into the directory where you saved the driver in:

cd /<location of driver>
3.- Install needed dependancies:

sudo apt-get install build-essential cdbs fakeroot dh-make debhelper debconf libstdc++5 dkms

#install ia32-libs if on a 64bit system
4.- Run the installer:

sudo sh <name of .run file>.run

#alternatively, you can simply run ati*.run
5.- A graphical interface should pop up. Just accept the defaults and let it finish. Once dropped back into the terminal (make sure no errors where given during the process):

cd
sudo aticonfig --initial
6.- Reboot

[Poop Loops]

When I first installed Jaunty on this thing, I went to System > Hardware Drives and installed what it recommended. I rebooted to a black screen.

I did find instructions later that just told me to

sudo apt-get --reinstall xorg-drivers-fglrx
sudo aticonfig --initial
sudo aticonfig --Overlay-type=Xv (or something like that)

And that worked, but even browsing the web with Firefox gave choppy scrolling.

I did try to install the drivers manually via

http://wiki.cchtml.com/index.php/Ubuntu_Jaunty_Installation_Guide#Installing_the_dr ivers_manually

But that didn't work, either. I think I used 9.5 that time, and when I installed Intrepid I tried the 9.3 drivers, because I figured my card was on the list of "legacy" cards now. I'm guessing you're all saying it isn't?

Should I still try the 9.6 drives? If so, should I use the stock kernel? If so, then is it enough to boot to the stock kernel, install there, and just use that one and ignore the newer kernel boot?

[nanonyme]

I think I used 9.5 that time, and when I installed Intrepid I tried the 9.3 drivers, because I figured my card was on the list of "legacy" cards now. I'm guessing you're all saying it isn't?If the card indeed has a RadeonHD 3870 chip, it definitely isn't considered legacy by anyone. :)

[Poop Loops]

It's an M88 chip. It's just called a Mobility RadeonHD 3870, but I am pretty sure the chipsets aren't the same, because loading the proprietary drivers from a fresh install of Jaunty gave me a black screen on reboot.

This is why I am looking into the radeonhd drivers, because it explicitly lists the M88 chip as being supported, and even lists my video card model.

[Melcar]

According to fglrx's release notes, it does support the mobility hd3870.

[nanonyme]

I definitely mentioned that long before 2.6.30 final release. It is up to a ATI developer to submit that patch (because the binary part is compiled against it).False. Linux kernel developers deliberately put in that change, patches submitted by ATi developers for that would probably just be rejected... The only way is to change the closed driver so that it works with the API changes. It's not like kernel developers wanted you using the closed driver in the first place. As they say in Finnish military "shit flows downwards" regarding the hierarchy. It just happens to flow from kernel developers to ATi developers in this case and there's not much you can do.

[bridgman]

There are two different things that can be patched here. One is the actual kernel source code, which implements specific APIs.

The other is the "Kernel Compatibility Layer" source code we include with each driver release, which translates from a generic API (which the binary driver uses) into calls on a specific kernel.

As part of the installation process, the KCL source code is built against the kernel headers of whatever kernel is installed on the user system. It is possible to intercept the installation process and patch the KCL code before building it and linking it with the rest of the binary objects.

[bridgman]

Poop Loops, would it be possible to go back to a fresh install of Jaunty ?

If so, first step would be to try out the open source drivers that are automatically configured during Ubuntu install. If there are problems between those drivers and your hardware, both we and Ubuntu would like to know.

Separately, you could then try installing the Cat 9.6 driver, preferably by building packages and installing those packages with the distro's package manager.

[nanonyme]

The other is the "Kernel Compatibility Layer" source code we include with each driver release, which translates from a generic API (which the binary driver uses) into calls on a specific kernel.Hmm, my mistake then. Misread the path as belonging to the actual kernel sources.

[Poop Loops]

Poop Loops, would it be possible to go back to a fresh install of Jaunty ?

Not at this point, no. This is the 3rd time I've set up Ubuntu just the way I like it and transfered all my files from my desktop, so I really don't want to go through all of that again.

If so, first step would be to try out the open source drivers that are automatically configured during Ubuntu install. If there are problems between those drivers and your hardware, both we and Ubuntu would like to know.

No problems when I installed Jaunty this last time (and the first time). Whatever was installed by default worked, in that it let me see my desktop. Acceleration-wise, it was doing squat, but I know that that part is coming along and will take a while.

Separately, you could then try installing the Cat 9.6 driver, preferably by building packages and installing those packages with the distro's package manager.

I'll try the Cat 9.6 drivers, then. But two questions, do I need to boot to the stock kernel, or can I use the 2.6.30 kernel? And secondly, what do I do if the shit hits the fan? Last time I frantically installed and uninstalled drivers and that of course was a confusing mess by the end. Or, can I simply go back to using my old xorg.conf file and simply put "radeon" as the Driver?

[Poop Loops]

According to fglrx's release notes, it does support the mobility hd3870.

I'm at the driver download page on the ATI website, and when I want drivers for 64-bit Linux => Mobility Radeon, I don't see my card on the list...

[Melcar]

Check the release notes for the 9.6 release. Your card is listed there.


...

I'll try the Cat 9.6 drivers, then. But two questions, do I need to boot to the stock kernel, or can I use the 2.6.30 kernel? And secondly, what do I do if the shit hits the fan? Last time I frantically installed and uninstalled drivers and that of course was a confusing mess by the end. Or, can I simply go back to using my old xorg.conf file and simply put "radeon" as the Driver?


Boot with the original Jaunty kernel. If the driver installation goes bad and you can't log into a normal session anymore, simply drop into command prompt mode, generate a new xorg.conf:

sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg

... and edit it to load up the radeon driver

sudo nano /etc/X11/xorg.conf

[Poop Loops]

I installed the 9.6 drivers manually, and rebooted to a black screen. I installed them to the 2.6.30 kernel, though. I'll try to reconfigure the xserver. I only edited my xorg.conf just now and that didn't work.

[Melcar]

You need to use Jaunty's 2.6.28 kernel.

[bridgman]

No problems when I installed Jaunty this last time (and the first time). Whatever was installed by default worked, in that it let me see my desktop. Acceleration-wise, it was doing squat, but I know that that part is coming along and will take a while.

The default drivers in Jaunty should give you EXA (2d) and Xv (video) acceleration, but not 3D acceleration (so no desktop effects with Compiz).

I'll try the Cat 9.6 drivers, then. But two questions, do I need to boot to the stock kernel, or can I use the 2.6.30 kernel? And secondly, what do I do if the shit hits the fan? Last time I frantically installed and uninstalled drivers and that of course was a confusing mess by the end. Or, can I simply go back to using my old xorg.conf file and simply put "radeon" as the Driver?

You should use the 2.6.28 kernel. There are some patches around to make 2.6.30 work with the current fglrx but I don't know how well they work.

[Poop Loops]

I booted to the stock kernel and I still had a black screen. Tried to reconfigure my xserver and then edit my xorg.conf, but that didn't help either. What do I do now? :(

[Kano]

You sell your laptop ;)

[bridgman]

Let's see... you still have fglrx installed, right ? Let's get you back to the original drivers as a starting point.

Did you install fglrx by building packages or via the native installer ? I'm guessing "installer", so you should be able to remove it by running uninstall. I don't have the install instructions in front of me so not sure about exact syntax etc..

Next, use the package manager to remove and reinstall a few packages :

xserver-xorg-video-radeon (this is probably OK)
libgl1-mesa-glx
libgl1-mesa-dri

I don't know an easy way to get back to the stock xorg.conf, so maybe just edit it and make sure the driver is set to "radeon" ("ati" would be fine too, but "ati" just loads "radeon"). Maybe pastebin your xorg conf so we can see if there's anything bad in there.

Reboot, and you should be running with the open source drivers. Run the xvinfo command and make sure you get Xv adapters - this is probably the easiest way to confirm that all the acceleration is working.

Next, read through the installation instructions for "building packages" - I think that's the approach we recommend when packages are supported for your distro.

[Poop Loops]

No, I manually installed the drivers. That's why I don't really know how to uninstall them... dpkg -i blah.deb worked fine. Is there a dpkg-uninstall blah.deb command or something? I'm guessing not...

Err... yes, a quick Google told me that I have to use dpkg -p to completely purge the system of the following packages. I'll try that really quick.

[Melcar]

You can also just remove the packages with apt-get remove just like any normal .deb package. Once you uninstall the packages you need to restore xorg.conf:

sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorgAnswer the questions and edit the new file so the system loads the radeon driver:

sudo nano /etc/X11/xorg.conf

#find the Device section and add the line:

Driver "radeon"Reboot and now you should have a working desktop (Xv, exa accel., no 3D). Now you can try to install fglrx again.
Check it:

1.- Got to ATI's website and donwload the driver. The same installer works for both 32bit and 64bit systems.

2.- Open a terminal and move into the directory where you saved the driver in:

cd /<location of driver>
3.- Install needed dependancies:

sudo apt-get install build-essential cdbs fakeroot dh-make debhelper debconf libstdc++5 dkms

#install ia32-libs if on a 64bit system
4.- Build packages:

sudo sh <name of .run file> --buildpkg

#this will generate several packages inside the source directory5.- Install packages:

sudo dpkg -i *.deb

#this will install ALL .deb files inside the directory, so make sure you don't have anything else aside from the driver
#if you are then asked about overwriting files, just tell it to go ahead (type "Y" when prompted)
6.- Initialize the driver:

cd
sudo aticonfig --initial
7.- Reboot

[Poop Loops]

That is almost exactly what I did, except that I downloaded the ati*.run driver file, made 3 .deb files out of it, and then followed your instructions step by step.

Basically, what I did was this:

http://wiki.cchtml.com/index.php/Ubuntu_Jaunty_Installation_Guide#This_module.2Fver sion_combo_is_already_installed

So unless your method is significantly different, then I already know the result. The problem has to be somewhere else, and I don't know where to even start looking. :(

But, at least I'm back to the open-source drivers now, which is good.

[Melcar]

It should create more than three packages (5 I think). Also, when you install them, check the terminal and make sure no errors are being spit out.

[Poop Loops]

Okay, I reinstalled the drivers, this time I booted to the stock kernel, though. Still the same story, just booting to a black page. Is there anything else I can try or do I just accept that my system is borked?

One thing, though, is that lspci gives me this:

06:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Device 9509
06:00.1 Audio device: ATI Technologies Inc Radeon HD 3870 Audio device

And when running aticonfig -- initial, BusID is always PCI:6:0:0. Should I try PCI:6:0:1?

[Melcar]

Well, you need to install the drivers while you are using the stock kernel. Does the installation go through without errors?

[Poop Loops]

I installed the drivers while using the stock kernel this last time, and I did not see any sort of errors pop up in the terminal. There was little output in general, so an error message would have been easy to spot.

[Poop Loops]

So a quick recap:

vesa drivers gave me ~165fps in glxgears
radeon drivers gave me ~400fps
radeon drivers + DRI gave me ~600fps
radeonhd gave a black screen
fglrx gave a black screen

radeon drivers with either XAA or EXA also give a black screen.

[Melcar]

Radeon loads up exa by default. Xaa should not give you any issues either.
Remember that the radeonhd driver is not installed by default. Jaunty's version is rather old (it's in the repositories), but there is a documented way on how to get the latest code:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RadeonHD

As for fglrx, have you tried using the installer itself? Don't generate packages, but instead just run the script.

[Poop Loops]

When I explicitly turn on EXA in xorg.conf, I get a black screen. Same with XAA.

Scratch my previous post, too. DRI gives ~400fps glxgears, without DRI I get ~600fps.

I've basically been playing around with various Device options for the radeon driver, and pretty much all of them give a black screen when enabled... :(

What do you mean by just running the script? sudo sh ati-whatever-driver.run?

[Melcar]

Yeah

sudo sh ati*.run


This will run a graphical installer. Just accept the default options and let it do its thing. After you are back in the terminal, just run aticonfig --initial.
Also, this time just to make sure, after you run the --initial parameter, load up xorg.conf and check if it was correctly edited for fglrx. You should have flgrx entries on your Device, Monitor, and Screen sections. The --initialize parameter creates these sections *on top* of the sections that were already present inside your xorg.conf (you will basically have duplicate sections). If you want, and to make sure fglrx is being used, you can delete all the sections that don't contain fglrx (3 of them).

[Poop Loops]

One thing I just read about the radeonhd drivers is that apparently the mobility cards have some weird quirk wherein having over 2GB of RAM causes them to spaz out due to something with the BIOS. Would fglrx have similar issues?

I'm too tired to check this out right now, but tomorrow I'll take out a stick of RAM and try that out, and also try the fglrx drivers again.

If either work only with 2GB RAM, then nuts to that. I guess I'll have to use cygwin until the drivers get up to speed. Or maybe (more likely) go with a rolling-release distro so that I don't have to wait until October or something in order to use the newer Linux kernels.

[Melcar]

Haven't heard anything on that. If you still want to try the radeonhd driver but don't want to bother with the make instructions given on my previous link, they also got pre-built packages you can try. Linked are the 1.2.5 revisions that provide Xv and exa for your card:
http://ppa.launchpad.net/tormodvolden/ppa/ubuntu/pool/main/x/xserver-xorg-video-radeonhd/

I'm using it right now with my hd4850 and it works fine.

[bridgman]

Poop Loops, one thing to try would be running "aticonfig --acpi-services=off" after installing fglrx but before starting X. That seems to help with a number of mobile systems.

[Poop Loops]

I tried the "aticonfig --acpi-services=off" thing, and unfortunately that didn't help. I then tried installing the pre-built package for the 1.2.5 radeonhd drivers, and that still didn't work. So I'm really stumped now. What could possibly be conflicting with the drivers?

[bridgman]

You don't need to take memory out AFAIK, just boot with a mem= parameter for testing (say mem=2048M).

http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/10-boot-time-parameters-you-should-know-about-the-linux-kernel.html

If you have the default kernel with a working drm (or 2.6.30 with a working drm) then the radeon drivers should enable EXA and Xv automatically. If they don't, can you pastebin the dmesg output ?

I read through the thread again and didn't find any details on your laptop, eg model number, etc.., would that be easy to post ?

The aticonfig command is for fglrx, it will be ignored by radeonhd and radeon. Probably best to pick one driver and stick with it until we get it working; if you're running Jaunty I really suggest running out-of-box stuff and then pasting xorg log and dmesg output so we can start troubleshooting. If you flip back and forth between fglrx and the open source drivers then the old rule is going to apply... "if you mess with souething enough it's gonna break" ;)

[Poop Loops]

I used the aticonfig thing with the fglrx drivers. Good point on the back and forth, though. I don't really care which drivers I get working, either. I'd just like some 3D accel if it's possible. I guess I'll try the fglrx drivers again, since they theoretically offer the most benefit if I get them working fully. I'll have to do that tomorrow, though. One thing I've seen in my Xorg logs is that a screen error appears often, i.e. "no screen found" and junk like that.

My laptop is an Alienware M17, with a 2.66GHz Intel processor, 4GB DDR3 RAM, and the Mobility Radeon HD3870 card,

[sab1dura]

My laptop is an Alienware M17, with a 2.66GHz Intel processor, 4GB DDR3 RAM, and the Mobility Radeon HD3870 card,

I have essentially the same laptop and am experiencing the same problem as you PL, have you made any headway yet or are you still having issues?

[Poop Loops]

I have essentially the same laptop and am experiencing the same problem as you PL, have you made any headway yet or are you still having issues?

No. I tried to go back to Hardy, hoping those drivers would work better, but no dice. So I decided to wait for Karmic to come out, and surprise surprise, people are still having the same issues from what I can tell.

I also tried Arch Linux, hoping that if I got to set up my own crap, I could make it work. Or something. I was thwarted by being on a campus network and having to log into it before I can use the web. Well, it's hard to log in from a terminal when they want you to log in through a website. Yeah, I could have downloaded the files I needed from another boot and just used them that way, but I got tired of it so I called it quits.

For now I've been using Vista 64 and... I'm ashamed to say... enjoying it. :(

I've also bought a student version of Windows 7 that I can pick up Oct. 22nd, so we'll see about that.

I'm starting to work a lot more on my computer again since classes started back up, though, so I really would like to go back to Linux, since I just had an easier time for things like that.

[bridgman]

Poop Loops, did using the mem= boot parameter to simulate <4GB of RAM make any difference ?

[Poop Loops]

Poop Loops, did using the mem= boot parameter to simulate <4GB of RAM make any difference ?

I don't know if I tried that. But while we're on that topic, does that mean the OS will use <4GB or is this just fooling it into thinking I have <4GB but it will still use it? I might try this either way, but I'd have to reinstall some Ubuntu version. Is Karmic good enough to use now, or should I still stick with Jaunty?

[agd5f]

IIRC, this is a bios MTRR problem:
http://lists.opensuse.org/radeonhd/2009-05/msg00070.html

[sab1dura]

so you saying that'll fix our problem agd5f?

also, PL, have you tried actually removing the 2gb of ram and just booting with 2gb? i havent, just wondering if that was in your list of things you checked as 'didn't work'...

[Poop Loops]

so you saying that'll fix our problem agd5f?

also, PL, have you tried actually removing the 2gb of ram and just booting with 2gb? i havent, just wondering if that was in your list of things you checked as 'didn't work'...

I have not tried physically removing 2GB. Even if it did work, I still wouldn't keep it that way, so it's a moot point.

[sab1dura]

I have not tried physically removing 2GB. Even if it did work, I still wouldn't keep it that way, so it's a moot point.

Yeah, same reason I haven't tried it :D I want it to work with my system, not have to make my system work with it. It is just so hard for me to believe that such a mainstream card has went this long without a fix...

[bridgman]

Just to be clear, I'm not saying "you have to run with 2GB for the rest of your life", but some BIOSes do muck up the memory mapping (MTRRs) with >=4GB. Reducing the memory to 3GB or less, either using the mem= boot parm or popping some memory, is an easy way to find if that is your problem.

[Poop Loops]

Just to be clear, I'm not saying "you have to run with 2GB for the rest of your life", but some BIOSes do muck up the memory mapping (MTRRs) with >=4GB. Reducing the memory to 3GB or less, either using the mem= boot parm or popping some memory, is an easy way to find if that is your problem.

I see. If it turns out to be the BIOS, can I just flash it with a version that isn't retarded?

[agd5f]

I see. If it turns out to be the BIOS, can I just flash it with a version that isn't retarded?

The thread I linked to describes how to have the kernel fix up the mtrrs if the bios fails to set them up properly. Whether or not a new bios will fix the issue probably depends on the vendor and how windows behaves with regard to the mtrr setup.

[Poop Loops]

Cool, I'll take a look at it. Thanks.