The future without HAL, regarding multiseat

[jamey0824]

Hal being deprecated starting with ubuntu 9.10 bring to mind a question. The way people use multiseat right now, we have this line in xorg.conf
Option "AutoAddDevices" "off"

Is this line still going to work the same way without HAL? I understand that consolekit and udev will probably fulfill the needs of multiseat but that seems 2010 ish. Wondering my options short term.

[nanonyme]

What? XD You're not serious, right? HAL deprecated? o.O
Weren't they marketing PulseAudio as that "it's like HAL so it's gotta be good"? >.<

[some-guy]

DeviceKit is replacing HAL

[deanjo]

What? XD You're not serious, right? HAL deprecated? o.O
Weren't they marketing PulseAudio as that "it's like HAL so it's gotta be good"? >.<

Ya HAL support is being depricated and being replaced by DeviceKit. It's the new "we are going to replace some older working stuff with something still in it's infancy and largely unproven, please bear with us for the next year and a half to get it semi working correctly" project.

[squirrl]

Ya HAL support is being depricated and being replaced by DeviceKit. It's the new "we are going to replace some older working stuff with something still in it's infancy and largely unproven, please bear with us for the next year and a half to get it semi working correctly" project.

Yay, 2.6.31rcxxx runs like molasses on my old pentium 3.

Here is the premiss:

Windows 2000, released around 1999 had a sufficient hardware detection system. Usb 2.0 sticks today will mount on yesterdays hardware.
My wacom tablet will begin functioning enough to doodle.
My trackball will work fine.
My laser mouse bought a few months back works fine.

It's 2009. 12 years ago to this date Microsoft had a solution that worked. In the free software community the problems usually pan out:
1. There is no problem; a manual way is fine. zealot (1999)
2. We got some money to add this feature. profiteer (2001)
3. Ok it was a problem we needed the automation. sympathizer (2003)
4. Here is a half-assed solution I'm over worked and underpaid. contrib (2004)
5. I got some more money so I'll fix another half assed solution. "" (2005)
6. Oh no Linus said my code sucked he wrote a new version, dam I have to get on the ball. Here are some patches. drunk (2006)
7. Big argument on LKM and various other forums. Slashdotted, dug, dranking heavily. (2007)
8. Intel hacks up various parts of the kernel and provides a solution. (2008)
9. Redhat backports the solution. enterpise demise (2009)
10. CentOS and Scientific provide the solution 2 years later (2010)
11. who cares. (2012) the moon crashed into the earth.


A long time ago you could run linux on your toaster. Sure you had to mount the toast yourself. Now if your toaster isn't a quad-core xenon you may as well buy netbsd, which you may still need to mount the bread. May have to manually turn it off too.:eek:

You notice window maker still runs great but KDE/GNOME slosh around like frothy beer.

I can't believe some of the forums I read where people sanction the use of Damn Small Linux.
I was using something similar to it back in 97. FVWM on Slackware.


My point is you can put an old copy of Windows 2000 on the so called box deemed only worthy of DSL (DAmn small linux) and play games and such (directx7 quake 3,2,1). Where you are barely able to check your mail and read the net with DSL.

Now I'm not trying to knock DSL here, be derogatory in other words. Same goes for any distribution.

I'm not promoting Microsoft either.

I'm just saying, the feature fairy keeps poping out new innovations for new hardware.
But old hardware just sits and rusts.


Am I'm no troll. Not trolling.

Just trying to laugh at myself and the rest of the world.

[energyman]

good riddance! hal is a POS, breaking all the time. Its config files are worse than the stuff they replace. Just compare a nice Xorg.conf with Hal's *fdi files. Unreadable xml - and convoluted crap.

So - devicekit. It can not be much worse, since I haven't heard of computers committing suicide....


oh - and windows?

why is it, that windows has still problems detecting the correct cache size on CPUs?

A friend of mine had to maually (!) correct the cache size of his cpu. Twice. With Windows and Vista.

[jamey0824]

Actually, my understanding is that HAL is being kind of split into 3 or 4 things functionality wise into udev, consolekit, devicekit, thinking policy kit gets some updates too. I guess i'm finally going to be forced into learning how to compile linux source code. Well not forced, cuz I want to but never have the time to tinker these days. I have no doubt that this is the right direction. But man I smell problems coming. Well at least audio will finally work really nicely soon. Nicely as in PulseAudio which is exciting for smart home type stuff. EOL.

[energyman]

pulseaudio? nice?

[nanonyme]

Let alone that it will probably still take a *long* time until program developers figure out how to use PulseAudio right... Like, say, tagging audio streams with proper media roles and learning where before you opened connections to multiple sound cards, you now just open two audio streams with different media roles. ;)

[deanjo]

pulseaudio? nice?

It "just works" right? :p

[L33F3R]

Ya HAL support is being depricated and being replaced by DeviceKit. It's the new "we are going to replace some older working stuff with something still in it's infancy and largely unproven, please bear with us for the next year and a half to get it semi working correctly" project.

sounds about right :rolleyes:

[Ant P.]

good riddance! hal is a POS, breaking all the time. Its config files are worse than the stuff they replace. Just compare a nice Xorg.conf with Hal's *fdi files. Unreadable xml - and convoluted crap.

The worst part of hal is this:

~ $ apropos xorg | grep '(5)' || echo 'quack!'
xorg.conf [xorg] (5) - configuration File for Xorg X server
~ $ apropos fdi | grep '(5)' || echo 'quack!'
quack!
~ $ apropos hal | grep '(5)' || echo 'quack!'
quack!

No. Documentation. Whatsoever.

I tried to get a tablet working once with a HAL-using Xserver. Wow, that was weeks of fun.

[deanjo]

The worst part of hal is this:

~ $ apropos xorg | grep '(5)' || echo 'quack!'
xorg.conf [xorg] (5) - configuration File for Xorg X server
~ $ apropos fdi | grep '(5)' || echo 'quack!'
quack!
~ $ apropos hal | grep '(5)' || echo 'quack!'
quack!No. Documentation. Whatsoever.

I tried to get a tablet working once with a HAL-using Xserver. Wow, that was weeks of fun.

Documentation is always a problem. Even if it does exist all to often it's outdated in many projects.

[V!NCENT]

Documentation is always a problem. Even if it does exist all to often it's outdated in many projects.
Linux From Scratch... Reading through that PDF yesterday, while, yes, outdated, taught me more about Linux than using it and learning it on the web ever since the year 2001 (yes; 8 years >.<) and I am just starting to understand it... GOD!

[deanjo]

and I am just starting to understand it... GOD!


And now you must be disposed of. Thou shalt not try to understand. :p

[V!NCENT]

And now you must be disposed of. Thou shalt not try to understand. :p
What was this round earth and Big Bang you were talking about? xD;):p

[energyman]

Documentation is always a problem. Even if it does exist all to often it's outdated in many projects.

except that X documentation is pretty good.

[deanjo]

except that X documentation is pretty good.

Did I say it wasn't?

[energyman]

>Documentation is always a problem. Even if it does exist all to often it's outdated in many projects.

while talking about X and hal documentation. So pretty much - yes.

[deanjo]

>Documentation is always a problem. Even if it does exist all to often it's outdated in many projects.

while talking about X and hal documentation. So pretty much - yes.

Heh well given the example posted it seems the opposite now doesn't it? Come on keep up with the topic.

[energyman]

topic is hal - and a future without it. I support that. Hal is the biggest piece of crap that ever infested the linux landscape. Even worse than gnome 2.X.
But it does not matter what replaces hal, if its replacement does the same mistakes:
idiotic xml
no documentation
breaking compatibility every other release


Is that ontopic enough?