Preferred embedded video for Phoronix

[bugmenot]

What format would you prefer Phoronix use to embed videos in articles?
The most popular Linux browsers (I think), are Firefox and Opera, both of which now support OGG Theora with <video>.

[benmoran]

Open standards are always good for things like this. Hopefully widespread adoption leads to more/faster Theora development. I can always hope.

[grantek]

Flash is fine for the embed (there's no real need to alienate people who visit the site on closed-source systems with flash as the only video option), but it'd be awesome to have an open standard as a downloadable option for videos. I might watch one or two then :p

[Apopas]

Flash is fine for the embed (there's no real need to alienate people who visit the site on closed-source systems with flash as the only video option), but it'd be awesome to have an open standard as a downloadable option for videos. I might watch one or two then :p
If a site with the title Linux reviews doesn't support the open standard videos then what site would do? Also, HTML5 <video> is supported by firefox in windows/MacosX as well, so everone will be able to watch them.
Also, with a trick like the one in http://el.www.mozilla.com/el/firefox/3.5.2/whatsnew/ the video doesn't catch a lot of room in the page and looks neat as well :D

[deanjo]

If a site with the title Linux reviews doesn't support the open standard videos then what site would do? Also, HTML5 <video> is supported by firefox in windows/MacosX as well, so everone will be able to watch them.
Also, with a trick like the one in http://el.www.mozilla.com/el/firefox/3.5.2/whatsnew/ the video doesn't catch a lot of room in the page and looks neat as well :D

Well potential linux switchers from windows may not be able to watch them if they are IE users. Just food for thought. We actually were just discussing this issue in the openSUSE project mailing lists. When the whole make "KDE as default" hit the fan, a suggestion was made to have the video showing the features of both desktops. Seeing that we want to show the features of both desktops to a person who is not familiar with them there is a good chance that they are using IE which of course does not support HTML 5 tags, thus it was decided that flash would be the best alternative to serve what a majority of people would already have installed on their system.

[Apopas]

Well potential linux switchers from windows may not be able to watch them if they are IE users. Just food for thought. We actually were just discussing this issue in the openSUSE project mailing lists. When the whole make "KDE as default" hit the fan, a suggestion was made to have the video showing the features of both desktops. Seeing that we want to show the features of both desktops to a person who is not familiar with them there is a good chance that they are using IE which of course does not support HTML 5 tags, thus it was decided that flash would be the best alternative to serve what a majority of people would already have installed on their system.
That's acceptable since over 40% of the users use IE-6.x. In a portal I'm making as well with news as embedded videos, we decided with my associates that flash/mp4 is the only choice till ogg/theora is officially supported in flash. But here in Phoronix, videos are just a small part of few articles. Someone who reads the articles/benchmarks is not the casual user who just reads news. So if he uses IE he could just get a phrase <<plz use Firefox/Opera>> on the videos' window that he can not play, or he can just get a link to download it. If we can not persuade give to switch form IE to Firefox then he wouldn't find Linux benchmarks interesting at all.
My two cents.

[deanjo]

That's acceptable since over 40% of the users use IE-6.x. In a portal I'm making as well with news as embedded videos, we decided with my associates that flash/mp4 is the only choice till ogg/theora is officially supported in flash. But here in Phoronix, videos are just a small part of few articles. Someone who reads the articles/benchmarks is not the casual user who just reads news. So if he uses IE he could just get a phrase <<plz use Firefox/Opera>> on the videos' window that he can not play, or he can just get a link to download it. If we can not persuade give to switch form IE to Firefox then he wouldn't find Linux benchmarks interesting at all.
My two cents.


Oh I agree, it's all about the target audience. It still however wouldn't hurt to have both options.

[Apopas]

Oh I agree, it's all about the target audience. It still however wouldn't hurt to have both options.
Yeah, dailymotion uses both options as well.

[cician]

I recommend html5 theora with java applet fallback. I think a silverlight fallback is possible too, but that would probably be too much hassle.

http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/2009/02/fallback-options-for-html5-video.html

I hope that flash adds support for theora+vorbis in a future version or just get doomed.
May be someone will write a reasonably fast theora player in flash vm, so a smooth transition would be possible.

[Apopas]

I recommend html5 theora with java applet fallback. I think a silverlight fallback is possible too, but that would probably be too much hassle.

http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/2009/02/fallback-options-for-html5-video.html

I hope that flash adds support for theora+vorbis in a future version or just get doomed.
May be someone will write a reasonably fast theora player in flash vm, so a smooth transition would be possible.
http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/Alchemy:Libraries
Since there is support for ogg, maybe we'll see and theora in the near future.

[KDesk]

I agree with cician idea.
Or Phoronix could simply put both videos. The people that don't have flash player won't see that version, and the people's browsers that doesn't support the html 5 <video> tag, they won't see it.
Or simple put the video with html 5 <video> and a link to youtube or dailymotion (which supports both) for the flash video.

[deanjo]

I agree with cician idea.
Or Phoronix could simply put both videos. The people that don't have flash player won't see that version, and the people's browsers that doesn't support the html 5 <video> tag, they won't see it.
Or simple put the video with html 5 <video> and a link to youtube or dailymotion (which supports both) for the flash video.

Realplayer FTW!!!:p

[RealNC]

I vote Flash. Because it just works.

[Ant P.]

<video src="whatever"><object data="old crappy flash video"></video>

This is a no-brainer, honestly.

[Apopas]

I vote Flash. Because it just works.
As ogg/theora does.

[KDesk]

Realplayer FTW!!!:p

Ah! Yes, with Real our lives would be easer, it should replace flash and vorbis/theora in Phoronix, no, wait, in all the web! :D

[RealNC]

As ogg/theora does.

It doesn't here.

[Apopas]

It doesn't here.
As far as I see it, IE doesn't work with ogg/theora.

[RealNC]

Who gives a shit about IE? This is a Linux forum.

[KDesk]

Who gives a shit about IE? This is a Linux forum.

I give a shit! :D
Really, they should fix that, or all the people should move to another browser.

[energyman]

html would be great, but flash is not wrong either. Real on the other hand is a pretty sick idea.

[benmoran]

I don't think anyone is saying ONLY one format. However, OGG/Theora as the preferred format makes the most sense. It's the only one that has the potential to work on all platforms. I'm thinking specifically of the new ARM netbooks, as well as thing such as the PS3 (while a dead subject now) that never had a working flash solution.

Plus who can honestly say the flash player on Linux is good? It works ok, but its shit.

[Apopas]

Who gives a shit about IE? This is a Linux forum.
Thats exactly my point. So what's the problem with ogg/theora? It works out of the box in Firefox and other browsers without the need of plugins and bullshits.

[RealNC]

Thats exactly my point. So what's the problem with ogg/theora? It works out of the box in Firefox and other browsers without the need of plugins and bullshits.

As I mentioned, it doesn't work "everywhere". Firefox needs ALSA for HTML5 video. I don't have ALSA. Therefore, it doesn't work. Flash does though.

[bugmenot]

...and here *flash* does not work, because <another special configuration>. Or I don't want to use flash, because it is not free. Or I don't want to use it, because it's illigal here. Or because I don't want to sign the license. This should be my decision! It's not fair to force users of a linux site to use flash.

So at least provide both possibilities. Automatically HTML5 if supported, if not youtube if you like. And for those like RealNC who would see the ogg theora video, but cannot hear anything (did you already file a bug report?) a link to the youtube page.
Problem solved and everyone is happy.

I think michael only want the videos to get high "views" rate on youtube. Instead of happy users. :(

[Apopas]

As I mentioned, it doesn't work "everywhere". Firefox needs ALSA for HTML5 video. I don't have ALSA. Therefore, it doesn't work. Flash does though.
And I don't have flash.

[curaga]

I'd prefer no embedding, and a download link.

However, if there must be some, Theora all the way. Just don't forget the link :)

[Xavier]

HTML5 <video> tag, of course. We're on an "enlightened" website here :)