Which brand for Linux:ATI or Nvidia

[sonnet]

I'm going to buy a new vga for my new pc.
I'm inclined to buy the upcoming radeon 5770 for all the features wll come with, the low power usage and the fact that I'm currently using an integrated vga by ati and that will ease up the installation,and I may end up using userful desktop multiplier to setup 2 user with the same pc.
The only cons is that reading on the forum it seems that some people ishaving problemi with ati+wine.
What do you suggest?
The alternative is a nvidia gtx 260.

[rohcQaH]

If you were happy with ATI until now, why don't you stick with it?

I'd actually recommend the 4770. It's a bit older, but the drivers are more mature and you can basically stick it in and it works. The 5770 isn't even out yet and will probably take a few weeks until fglrx officially supports it, maybe months until the OS-drivers do 3D.



oh yeah, prepare for some contradicting recommendations. Whenever ati vs. nvidia is the question, fanboys of both sides offer "advice". [1] :)

Both can work, nvidia's closed drivers are a bit better than ATIs (depending on your usage), but ATI has the better hardware and their OS efforts look very promising.


[1] Disclaimer: I'm an ex-nvidia-fanboy who ultimately converted to ati after the bumpgate scandal.

[Kano]

vdpau on nvidia works really well, so watching videos is much more fun with it. ati has vaapi in the works, but the current vaapi players do not support all features compared to vdpau. also wine support with nvidia drivers is much better. the new ati card is much faster for win games however and supports dx11.

[Ant P.]

If you're intending to do multiseat, better to go with something that behaves with the rest of the X stack (ATI).

[sonnet]

If you were happy with ATI until now, why don't you stick with it?

I'd actually recommend the 4770. It's a bit older, but the drivers are more mature and you can basically stick it in and it works. The 5770 isn't even out yet and will probably take a few weeks until fglrx officially supports it, maybe months until the OS-drivers do 3D.



oh yeah, prepare for some contradicting recommendations. Whenever ati vs. nvidia is the question, fanboys of both sides offer "advice". [1] :)

Both can work, nvidia's closed drivers are a bit better than ATIs (depending on your usage), but ATI has the better hardware and their OS efforts look very promising.


[1] Disclaimer: I'm an ex-nvidia-fanboy who ultimately converted to ati after the bumpgate scandal.
The radeon 5770 ati card will be officially introduced tomorrow. I thought about buying the 4770, but as the new card will feature 1GB of memory more horsepower and better filters I was thinking it would be a smarter choice. Usually ATI provide since 1 year linux driver form the first day-launch and moreover the new architecture was introduced with the 58xx series,so I didn't think there will be much problem with support for the upcoming cards.
The only problemis that I never tested the ATI with wine, but now I want try to eliminate the Windows partition I kept for games..

[Kano]

I highly doubt that you can get rid of win when you intend to use wine. The speed penalty is pretty huge, even if it runs and lots of (new) games have got issues. Nv performs a bit better but of course not as fast as native with D3D apps. OpenGL based apps are more or less the same speed using wine.

[rohcQaH]

You've read this (http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19250)? Seems like first-day linux support didn't work out this time. If you can wait a little for the cards to actually be available and the drivers to work, go for the 5770. If you want to buy right now, it's the 4770.

The only problemis that I never tested the ATI with wine, but now I want try to eliminate the Windows partition I kept for games..
Now that depends on the games you're playing. DX10/11-games don't work, copy-protection mechanisms are huge trouble and there are still quite a few windows subsystems that aren't emulated properly.

now, there's http://appdb.winehq.org/ - click "Browse Apps" and search for the games you like to see if they even work. Then check the comments to see if there is reported breakage with ATI.

My experience is that newer games (games that'd benefit from a 57xx) don't work yet, with older games there's 90% chance of failing the copy protection, and if that's been.. evaded.. there's still a good chance it has bugs.

I'm successfully running diablo 2, guild wars, GTA: VC and GTA: SA on wine - I think all of them will run on ATI, too. For everything else, I still need to dual-boot. I'm afraid you'll keep your windows-partition, too.

[Chad Page]

A few years ago, I would have said nVidia, but AMD's support is improving on both free and non-free sides and in the long run a 5xxx is the best current card to have. If you're happy with the driver features of your current IGP, definitely stay with Radeon.

If you want good video acceleration today, get an nVidia, though. Although in six months AMD might very well catch up.

[Panix]

It doesn't matter about the brand name so much? In the case of ATI, it can be Sapphire or?

One other question: I always get mixed up and forget the differences in performance issues regarding the open source driver and the fglrx driver. So, applicable to 2D and 3D, you get?

For e.g., open source - 2D - ? 3D - ?
fglrx - 2D - ? 3D - ?

I watch movies on my computer and need good video from all types of video files. I also watch streaming video from time to time (YouTube etc.). That needs to be smooth too. Can one get that with an ATI Radeon 4850?

I think that would be sufficient for me as I doubt I'd be heavy into gaming but I am interested in purchasing/acquiring the odd game perhaps. I just want the option. However, the video playing capabilities need to be issue-free or close as possible.

I like that a lot of the ATI cards are shorter, fit in almost all cases even mid-tower and are generally cheaper. But, the number of issues reported scare me away for now. I think these threads are great since the experiences of others helps a lot. Right now, I still have a Nvidia 7950 GT in my current computer but I am building a budget system for someone so I might buy a video card for it or upgrade mine (and pass the old one on). :)

[bugmenot]

If you are an opensource enthusiast take an ati, they support officially free drivers. KMS for example is only possible on the free drivers. And open drivers become better and better every day.

If you *really* need 100% the best 3d performance you have to take the closed drivers. In that case take ati or nvidia, the latter have still better drivers. And they have already a well working video decode extension vdpau. But with ati you support also free drivers and probably they will also have a video decode extension soon (but noone knows the date really).

It's up to you. :)

I will buy an ati card in the next weeks.

Just tell us exactly what your card needs to do for you with which priorities.

[tmpdir]

prepare for some contradicting recommendations. Whenever ati vs. nvidia is the question, fanboys of both sides offer "advice". [1] :)

Both can work, nvidia's closed drivers are a bit better than ATIs (depending on your usage), but ATI has the better hardware and their OS efforts look very promising.

nvidia's drivers are indeed a 'whole' lot better than ati's closed and opensource drivers. I'm a nvidia fan but at this moment I'm seriously considering buying a ati card for my next htpc. For me it depends on their next driver if it does support some kind of video acceleration it wil be ati -including the extra config work it takes and the time for my favorite software to adapt the new api- else it will be nvidia and with its very stable drivers which are almost on par with the windows drivers.

When wine gaming is your thing I would recommend staying with nvidia (you where warned about contradicting advice :D)

by the way... this is one of the nicest thread i've read in some time about nvidia versus ati :confused:

[rohcQaH]

It doesn't matter about the brand name so much? In the case of ATI, it can be Sapphire or?
Most of the time, they follow the reference design. Often the difference between different brands is just a sticker.
Sometimes some vendors change the cooling solution though. Google for some reviews before buying. "Silent" (fanless) cards are always great, but check a review to see if it really stays cool enough.

So, applicable to 2D and 3D, you get?
ATI OS: fast 2d, slow 3d (but getting faster)
ATI fglrx: slow 2d, fast 3d
nvidia: average 2d, fast 3d
(where "slow" refers to the slowest of the three. Doesn't have to be unusable slow, just slower by comparison)

I watch movies on my computer and need good video from all types of video files.
MP4 HD content (1080p@60) needs GPU acceleration. If you're watching a lot of that, I think nvidia is the better choice for now simply because of VDPAU. Although a fast CPU and multithreading-patches for mplayer are supposed to work, too.
If you're only watching 720p/DVD/xvid, your GPU hardly matters.

I also watch streaming video from time to time (YouTube etc.). That needs to be smooth too.
flash sucks and does most of it's work on your CPU anyway. It works for me until I try to use fullscreen mode, then it gets slow. I use youtube-dl to download the video, then watch it with mplayer. Works well, but isn't really "streamed" any more.

I am building a budget system for someone so I might buy a video card for it or upgrade mine (and pass the old one on). :)
you could buy the 4850, test it, then pass on the gfx card you like less :p

[sonnet]

If you're intending to do multiseat, better to go with something that behaves with the rest of the X stack (ATI).

Could you be more specific with your comment? I had the possibility to get a 9800 1gb at a very attractive price, but your comment is keeping me from buying it.
Does Nvidia drivers have problems with the x stack compared to the frglx?

[curaga]

No, but compared to radeon :P

IIRC trying to use either frglx or nvidia with any other driver causes crashes.

[benmoran]

It's my understanding that Nvidia drivers replace a lot of files with their own versions.

[rohcQaH]

the nvidia drivers simply replace whole parts of the X stack with their own implementations. In some ways, nvidia's implementations are superior, in others, they aren't. And of course they don't benefit from improvements in the replaced open source parts.

fglrx replaces some parts, too, but IIRC they are less intrusive than nvidia.

so no, they don't have a problem with the "X stack" in general. But as proper multiseat will rely on pretty new techniques, nvidia may not support it. fglrx may not, either.


I think multiseat will require KMS, which cannot be supported in any closed source driver. Other multiseat implementations (i.e. based on MPX) may work.

[Ant P.]

Does Nvidia drivers have problems with the x stack compared to the frglx?

nVidia is preoccupied with a driver that does 3D to the point where they've ignored pretty much everything else; for example when KDE 4.0 came out it was unusable on nv cards because they had no 2D accel whatsoever.

You'd be lucky if they support multiseat at all, and even then the ability to use your setup as intended is entirely at their whim - they drop support for older cards just like ATI, but they won't lift a single finger to help FOSS developers make a replacement driver. Using nVidia is an upgrade treadmill, much like using Windows.

[sonnet]

To be honest the only free multiseat solution I'm aware of (free for 2 user only ) is this one:
http://www2.userful.com/products/userful-multiplier
and on the specification requirement pdf (which is a bit outdated ) for the nvidia cards support propietary driver is required (is not required for ati card) so I guess the application should work with Nvidia driver.
Then if you know a better free multiseat application which doesn't have problems with ati and nvidia card feel free to suggest.

[tmpdir]

nVidia is * snip * they drop support for older cards just like ATI, but they won't lift a single finger to help FOSS developers make a replacement driver. Using nVidia is an upgrade treadmill, much like using Windows.

Any examples Ant P? in my experience nvidia keeps supporting old cards. For example i'm still using a 4200 and i've seen on their site legacy drivers for much older cards.

[Ant P.]

Did they change their policies at some point without telling anyone? ISTR an announcement where they would no longer support most of their pre-PCIE cards in their next release, shortly after introducing the black window bug in compiz.

[vesa]

* OT warning *


flash sucks and does most of it's work on your CPU anyway. It works for me until I try to use fullscreen mode, then it gets slow. I use youtube-dl to download the video, then watch it with mplayer. Works well, but isn't really "streamed" any more.


I can very much recommend this Greasemonkey script:
http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/41722

Happy watching!