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KohlyKohl
11-02-2006, 10:05 PM
http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/

re-Web cast of the announcement will be posted soon. What is your take on the implications of this deal? Why do you think They did it? Will the Linux community shun Novell?

1c3d0g
11-03-2006, 09:06 AM
It's M$'s first step towards acknowledging that after more than 30 years of trying, they've failed to make a competent O.S. :) GNU/Linux is apparently no longer a cancer, in M$'s view. They've also realized that after Vista is released, the ball stops there. Even M$ knows blackcomb is dead. There's so much broken stuff, things that will not be included before RTM in Vista already etc. etc. etc. that they're either:
1. need to start from scratch, undoing 30+ years of work in the process;

or,

2. take an existing secure O.S., like...uhm...SUSE Enterprise, polish it up further and release that as their flagship O.S. of choice.

Some food for thought.

Michael
11-03-2006, 09:13 AM
It's M$'s first step towards acknowledging that after more than 30 years of trying, they've failed to make a competent O.S. :) GNU/Linux is apparently no longer a cancer, in M$'s view. They've also realized that after Vista is released, the ball stops there. Even M$ knows blackcomb is dead. There's so much broken stuff, things that will not be included before RTM in Vista already etc. etc. etc. that they're either:
1. need to start from scratch, undoing 30+ years of work in the process;

or,

2. take an existing secure O.S., like...uhm...SUSE Enterprise, polish it up further and release that as their flagship O.S. of choice.

Some food for thought.

Nice thoughts.

The last time I think I bothered to look at information about Blackcomb must have been 2002 or 2003. Is Blackcomb still supposed to have its kernel stored on a server at Microsoft, to prevent pirating? Then again, if Microsoft continues in their current roadmap even that pirating measure would probably be pushed back to Blackcomb+1 due to delays.

I remember hearing years ago about WinFS, Aero, Avalon, and several other supposedly "big features". Anyone that has touched a Vista / Longhorn Beta or Release Candidate, how many of these features really ended up getting implemented?

Rob Williams
11-03-2006, 04:02 PM
This could be a huge mistake for Novell, or a good one. The majority of people who hate the thought of this are enthusiasts.

It will be interesting... to say the least.

Michael
11-03-2006, 09:16 PM
There's already people calling for a boycott of Novell/SUSE... http://www.openaddict.com/news.php?item.227.3

1c3d0g
11-03-2006, 10:55 PM
That guy is a f*cking idiot! :mad: Sorry but that just had to be said. Instead of embracing this as a unique opportunity to convince M$ of their wrong doings and bringing them "into the light", he's trying to add fuel to the fire. How pathetic can you be?

Some people in the Open Source community really are a PITA, I'll tell you that.

KohlyKohl
11-04-2006, 01:42 AM
I totally agree. In time we will see what comes of all this.

Michael
11-04-2006, 03:44 PM
I totally agree with your statement 1c3d0g

Michael
11-04-2006, 05:12 PM
Miguel de Icaza has done a Q&A type thing on his blog about the Microsoft + Novell deal, especially when it comes to the Mono project.

http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2006/Nov-04.html

KohlyKohl
11-04-2006, 07:52 PM
That was a very well put article.

gilboa
11-05-2006, 08:47 AM
Looking at Microsoft's ways of doing business, one can only come to the conclusion that Novel/SUSE is dead. Period.
Question is, if and when Microsoft goes for the kill, would OSDL and the members of the OIN will have sufficient patents in their collective portfolio to create a MAD like standoff with Microsoft.

- Gilboa

colo
11-05-2006, 08:50 AM
http://technocrat.net/d/2006/11/2/9945

Bruce Perens' stance towards the issue.

This indeed does not bode well.

1c3d0g
11-05-2006, 09:01 AM
I agree with Miguel. People need to give this time. I know there are still a lot of ill feelings towards M$ (believe me I'm one of them), but people need to try to look at this in a more constructive way.

Personally, I believe M$ is feeling the heat that F/OSS is unleashing on their products. With Oracle's recent surprise announcement about making a Red Hat clone (that's what it basically is) and with SUN's Solaris' sales soaring, maybe the time has come for M$ to seriously evaluate their position. Perhaps they've realized that they won't be able to hold onto their current market share for much longer, especially after the mega disaster called Vista.

I'll go as far as saying that, knowing M$, they're probably thinkering intensively with a customized *BSD/*nix distro in a dark lab somewhere in Redmond, which at some point in time, will be their "base" from which they'll build upon. Hey, Apple did it with with the switch from v.9 to Mac OS X, and then again with an architecture shift from PPC to x86. If they can do it, why not M$, which has a lot more cash? Never say never. "The Switch" will come some day, mark my words. :)

MU_Engineer
11-05-2006, 11:49 PM
Here's what I think:

1. This will certainly make the average zealot very ticked as Novell "sold out." This will probably lead to a little downturn in participation and use of OpenSUSE and a lot of ill will toward Novell.

2. Novell probably thinks it's a good thing as they can use Microsoft as an {ally|resource|weapon} with which to cut down Red Hat and secure the business Linux market.

3. Microsoft is the real question mark. They no doubt would love to sue or drive Linux out of existence, but they tried and failed miserably with SCO trying to do that. Maybe they are ceding the server market to Linux and "if you can't beat them, join them?" Maybe. MS did release a big-iron version of Windows Server, so this is not a super high reason in my mind. Besides, Microsoft does not like to partner all that much. They might have well *bought* Novell if they wanted to do that. Might Microsoft try to use Novell to disrupt the Linux market with patent issues through Novell? Very possibly. They tried to do it with SCO. Might MS try to pick things out of Linux to put in Windows? Possibly, but they needed not to partner with anybody to do that- the code is out there for the looking.

Probably the best reasons for MS to do this is that they:

A. Want to sell (or sell service for) Linux. It is popular and if MS sells it and puts any effort into it, then there's nobody that will beat them. NOBODY. They would literally own the market in a year as the IT guys sold on the advantages of Linux would likely have the PHBs want them to get it from Microsoft as to them, Microsoft == software.

B. Want to try to worm in proprietary code into a major Linux vendor's products and then shoot down anybody that uses it after the partnership is up.

C. Want to try to worm in proprietary code into hot Linux applications (say that Novell makes a killer app and MS helps them with it and it's not GPL.) This is possible but would be worked around.

D. Want to corrupt the GPL or open standards. For example, Novell does make its own branded version of OpenOffice- it's conceivable that MS might want Novell to make their version's ODFs slightly incompatible with others. "Oh, but MS Word will work the same on all computers" is what will come out of Redmond.

What do I hope happens? I personally would not mind if Microsoft became a GPL-following Linux distributor and sold (optional) support. Fact is that I like Linux and it does need a large, wealthy group to pour a lot of money into it to make it the OS to beat all others into a pulp beyond pulp. The only thing that I would have hesitation about with MS selling Linux is that they would revert to their old tricks and make it incompatible with any other Linux, DRM-laden, and not configurable. Windows XP on a Linux kernel is not really what I'd like to see.

BoomStYx
11-06-2006, 12:25 PM
Mmm... This is interesting, heres my take on it. I think if Microsoft tries to start taking swings at Linux, the only way Linux will survive is that the key people like Linus, and the people like i'm sure alot of us if not all of us here do something, at least one thing to help Open Source whether its reporting bugs, giving ideas or like what Michael does with this site, or Tuxgames by selling native Linux games, anything. Something to contribute.

I don't think Microsoft has a chance, we're too free to be able to be tamed, and I believe Microsoft has seen some of the awesome projects that have came out of Open Source, such as the Beryl project with their innovative ways of creating a 3d desktop, or even more famous ones like Open Office, or even as high up as Firefox.

The point is, they can try, but they won't succeed, so say SuSE goes bye bye, thats too bad, but, there are still alot of other great distros out there. But it could lead to a small chain reaction too like what someone else said, where SuSE is using Microsoft to go after Redhat, so basically, SuSE is now the bigger fish, swallows Redhat, Microsoft wants to now swallow SuSE, but whats left to swallow? Sun? I don't know about that hehe.

I don't think we'll have much to worry about however, i'm just letting out possibilities, but I don't think it will do that much to the Linux/Open Source community. We're free, they're not.

MU_Engineer
11-06-2006, 12:31 PM
Mmm... This is interesting, heres my take on it. I think if Microsoft tries to start taking swings at Linux, the only way Linux will survive is that the key people like Linus, and the people like i'm sure alot of us if not all of us here do something, at least one thing to help Open Source whether its reporting bugs, giving ideas or like what Michael does with this site, or Tuxgames by selling native Linux games, anything. Something to contribute.

I don't think Microsoft has a chance, we're too free to be able to be tamed, and I believe Microsoft has seen some of the awesome projects that have came out of Open Source, such as the Beryl project with their innovative ways of creating a 3d desktop, or even more famous ones like Open Office, or even as high up as Firefox.

The point is, they can try, but they won't succeed, so say SuSE goes bye bye, thats too bad, but, there are still alot of other great distros out there. But it could lead to a small chain reaction too like what someone else said, where SuSE is using Microsoft to go after Redhat, so basically, SuSE is now the bigger fish, swallows Redhat, Microsoft wants to now swallow SuSE, but whats left to swallow? Sun? I don't know about that hehe.

I don't think we'll have much to worry about however, i'm just letting out possibilities, but I don't think it will do that much to the Linux/Open Source community. We're free, they're not.


You do raise a valid point that as long as there is a copy of the source code somewhere, Linux will still be around. I am sure that it will be around forever just because of that reason.

But what the bigger deal is here is that if Linux somehow gets driven out of the current edge-of-mainstream back into the "hacker and CS-major OS" niche is that we'll see development for it slow greatly. We'll see no more new 3rd-party applications or the necessary-evil stuff like binary blob GPU drivers and Flash plugins. I don't know about you, but I am glad that Linux is gaining popularity because the 3rd-party development makes it much more usable and a real choice for general use.

BoomStYx
11-06-2006, 12:53 PM
You do raise a valid point that as long as there is a copy of the source code somewhere, Linux will still be around. I am sure that it will be around forever just because of that reason.

But what the bigger deal is here is that if Linux somehow gets driven out of the current edge-of-mainstream back into the "hacker and CS-major OS" niche is that we'll see development for it slow greatly. We'll see no more new 3rd-party applications or the necessary-evil stuff like binary blob GPU drivers and Flash plugins. I don't know about you, but I am glad that Linux is gaining popularity because the 3rd-party development makes it much more usable and a real choice for general use.

Yep absolutely, yeah i'm very glad that Linux is picking up, but at the same time, it makes me a little nervous. Mainly i'm worried about how alot of the big projects around will fare against like say Microsoft trying to do something about it. I don't know exactly what they can do at this moment but I do know that if something were to happen, it would be a chain reaction of some sort.

And yeah, Linux won't ever die, I mean lets say the worst happens, and it does become that "hacker" os it used to be, we'd basically have to start over. And that sucks. But I don't think that'll happen, I think if bad things were to happen, it may only strenghten Linux more, because it'll only make people try harder that care the most. And the big projects that care the most, obviously stand out above the rest, since its the ones we all care about the most, like Firefox.

I think the distro we really need to keep our eye on is Ubuntu because that distro is the most popular for home computers at the moment, alot of new users are starting there. But I think Microsoft's real intention is to take over the business world side of Linux. But who knows how far they'd really go if they did succeed.

Michael
11-07-2006, 08:07 PM
Miguel got Novell to answer some more questions -- http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2006/Nov-07-1.html

Rob Williams
11-07-2006, 09:29 PM
Miguel got Novell to answer some more questions -- http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2006/Nov-07-1.html

Good read.. for the most part. Doesn't instill additional confidence though. It's really hard at this point to see where this is going to go.

First ATI buys AMD, and then Novell partners with Microsoft. What a year this has been.

afterburntdw
11-07-2006, 11:29 PM
The theory that was discussed in our IT department is interesting, indeed. M$ has been taking alot of heat for the weak security in their OS's. It makes sense for them to now begin work on the next version of Windows...Why not go for a ground-up rewrite? They have already stated that they wish their kernel to be modular from here on out, as opposed to the monolithic kernel style that has been used for years. It wouldn't be far-fetched to bring Novell's SUSE developers into the mix. 2 situations could present themselves - 1) M$ somehow gets information from the specific Unix patents that Novell still holds (I don't know what they are.) or 2) M$ has SUSE kernel dev's come up with a new kernel design that doesn't outright use existing Linux code, but follows a similar structure for a more stable and secure design.

The other thought is pretty obvious by Steve Ballmer's comments - In their eyes, you aren't protected against patent violations, unless of course you use some form of SUSE.

Just a couple of thoughts - What do you guys think?

KohlyKohl
11-08-2006, 01:38 AM
Linux is open Source, the code is out there for anyone to see. There is no need for Microsoft to ally with someone in Linux to gain that information, nor do they need Novell's engineers to assist them in making a new kernel if thats what they choose. The NT Kernel was originally written by one man, coincidentally so was Linux's, and then heavily modified over the years to meet the needs of new technology. I guess what I'm saying is that with all the resources Microsoft has, they wouldn't need Novell. They also could not make a new Kernel based off of Linux kernel source without giving back all their changes, and I just don't see that happening.

One interesting thing I'd like to note is that there was a steady amount of updates for SLED 10 up until 2 weeks ago, now nothing. I wonder why that is?

afterburntdw
11-08-2006, 09:22 AM
I wasn't trying to imply that Microsoft CAN'T write a new kernel without outside help. What I meant is that they might want to bring someone end that has extensive experience with building modular style kernels. Just because someone can figure out how to build a hot rod doesn't mean they really want to do it all on their own.

There is something else going on here...Microsoft doesn't choose allies easily - They must have alot more to gain than they lead on.

Just an idea. Could be completely wrong and it's only about patent stuff.

Michael
11-12-2006, 03:28 PM
The Samba team is now asking Novell to reconsider this deal -- http://news.samba.org/announcements/team_to_novell/

joshuapurcell
11-15-2006, 01:03 AM
Novell will have to come up with something good for the Linux community as an outcome of this deal with Microsoft if they intend to stay on the good side of many within the community. The Novell and SuSE brands, in my opinion, are on the verge of becoming way too tied to Microsoft to be a viable member to the GNU/Linux and Open Source community if they don't show us that this partnership is in some way good for us.

And I am very sceptical that they can pull this off. Microsoft is not a friend of the Linux community. This has been proven by years of derogatory statements, underhanded deals, and their basic way of doing business... throwing money at this problem cannot help their company erase this image they've made for themselves. I don't understand why Novell would want to tie themselves to such a company.

Another thing I'm interested in is whether or not this deal will impact Novell-related projects other than their distribution, namely XGL. AIGLX is already a good alternative to XGL, and an added bonus is that it doesn't replace the already-installed X server (in fact it's included in X.org V7.1). I know which one I'll be using.

afterburntdw
11-15-2006, 03:54 PM
Here's an interview from Computerworld with Bill Hill, General Manager for Platform Strategy at Microsoft. An excerpt:

"Computerworld: What is Microsoft’s motivation for the deal with Novell? BH: This is an intellectual property deal. There will be an overlap at some point between our intellectual property and open source that we have to resolve."

The full article is here:

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=273006

Michael
11-15-2006, 04:19 PM
Just read this in Fortune Magazine -- says the Microsoft Novell deal will be dead by March.

The potentially historic Microsoft-Novell pact announced last week, whereby Microsoft would grant patent peace to users of Novell's Suse Linux software in exchange for royalty payments paid by Novell to Microsoft, will be dead by mid-March, promises Eben Moglen, the general counsel of the Free Software Foundation (FSF). The FSF controls the license that governs the distribution of Linux and many other key forms of free and open-source software.

http://money.cnn.com/rssclick/blogs/legalpad/index.html#116360365189479898?section=magazines_fo rtune

afterburntdw
11-15-2006, 05:03 PM
It's good to see that deals of this nature will be specifically banned in GPL3.

It's too bad - I liked SUSE alot. But I won't touch it now.

Michael
11-16-2006, 01:24 PM
Another set of those opposed to this deal:

Schwartz (Sun) - http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?newsID=7361

Red Hat - http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2059675,00.asp

Microsoft actually wants to deal with Red Hat like they are doing with Novell, but Red Hat is smart and says no.

Rob Williams
11-17-2006, 12:28 PM
Ballmer: Linux users owe Microsoft

In comments confirming the open-source community's suspicions, Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer Thursday declared his belief that the Linux operating system infringes on Microsoft's intellectual property.

In a question-and-answer session after his keynote speech at the Professional Association for SQL Server (PASS) conference in Seattle, Ballmer said Microsoft was motivated to sign a deal with SUSE Linux distributor Novell earlier this month because Linux "uses our intellectual property" and Microsoft wanted to "get the appropriate economic return for our shareholders from our innovation."

http://www.linuxworld.com.au/index.php/id;839593139;fp;2;fpid;1

afterburntdw
11-17-2006, 02:18 PM
Steve Ballmer really makes my blood boil. He's got to be one of the most unpolished and childish executives in the IT industry. He never says specifically what in the Linux kernel infringes on MS IP. He's got nothing.

In my opinion, he (and MS by extension) only see $$$ for their shareholders - He even says that himself. MS has been trying to get a slice of the *nix pie for a long time now.

KohlyKohl
11-17-2006, 09:51 PM
Its all lies until he shows the evidence. I can say Windows infringes on the GPL all I want, but until I say exactly what it is its all just a lie. I know nothing about the kernel, nor have I seen it or Windows source code so I cannot say whether or not that it does. I think Microsoft should be held accountable for saying statements like that with no evidence, that would be slander to any other business, so why not when its Microsoft?

1c3d0g
11-19-2006, 07:09 PM
Well f*cking said. :mad: And you know the reason why they can continue spouting bull from their mouth? It's because M$ has the money to buy off any judge that has a thing to say in such a lawsuit. There, I said it.

Michael
11-20-2006, 10:55 PM
Well, Novell has issued an open letter to the community...


http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/community_open_letter.html

Rob Williams
11-21-2006, 01:38 AM
"In closing, we wish to be extremely clear that Novell is committed to protecting, preserving and promoting freedom for free and open source software."

So you join up with Microsoft. I may not understand this, but that makes little sense. Can't beat them, so join em?

joshuapurcell
11-21-2006, 01:28 PM
I'm surprised to see that Novell thinks enough of the community to make this statement, and I think it shows that they are aware how much of a problem this partnership is to them now. I just can't understand how they could have ever thought this deal would be good for a company in their position... it makes me think that the people in charge of that company are only interested in profits, and Microsoft's money spends just like everyone else's. The problem is that Microsoft's money comes with lots of strings attached.

Michael
11-24-2006, 11:55 AM
Mark Shuttleworth posted on his blog a message about recruiting new Ubuntu developers, and seems to be targeted at OpenSuSE developers due to this Novell deal.

http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/81

Michael
11-28-2006, 08:53 AM
Some more Microsoft + Novell (OpenSuSE) information...

http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=06/11/27/2113210

Michael
12-04-2006, 08:33 PM
Groklaw is running an article now stating that Novell is forking OpenOffice.org to provide Microsoft OpenXML support: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?s...61204130954610 (http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20061204130954610)

Miguel de Icaza has also responded to these allegations: http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2006/Dec-04.html

joshuapurcell
12-05-2006, 12:48 AM
Mark Shuttleworth posted on his blog a message about recruiting new Ubuntu developers, and seems to be targeted at OpenSuSE developers due to this Novell deal.

http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/81
Some people (probably the more level-headed of the community I might add) say that Mark Shuttleworth's recent offer to SuSE developers is not good for the GNU/Linux community as a whole. While there is some bit of "truth" there, I can't say that I agree.

The problem isn't Mark Shuttleworth (or anyone else in the Linux community) trying to create a benefit for their project out of the Microsoft/Novell deal... the problem is THE DEAL ITSELF. It was obvious that this deal would create fighting within the community, and this is exactly what Microsoft wants. And now today I read that Novell will fork OpenOffice... so they can add support for Microsoft's replacement for the Open Document Format! I can't believe that Novell thinks this will go over well with the Open Source community. Shuttleworth was right to make the offer... everyone knows there has to be numerous SuSE developers steaming over what their corporate executives have done over the last week or two. After all, they are part of Open Source community themselves. If those developers are serious about supporting open standards (like ODF), then why would they possibly feel the need to include Microsoft's replacement for ODF (OpenXML) in one of the most popular open-source applications available? I'm sure SuSE will see a rather large decrease in developers within the next couple of months, and they may as well go to a distribution that could never be put in the same situation as SuSE is currently.

Microsoft wouldn't have ever been able to make such a deal with a community-driven distribution like Debian and its derivatives. Yes, Ubuntu has a company behind it that pays developers and makes money from supporting the distribution, but that company and it's leader are completely commited to Open-Source ideals (not making their shareholders happy... there are none), and money is not an issue (it has been stated numerous times by Shuttleworth that even if Canonical doesnt' make any money from Ubuntu, the distribution will continue), and at Ubuntu's core is Debian... arguably the most community-driven non-proprietary open-source distribution out there (ok, this one is my thoughts.. not necessary fact :D).

Microsoft is at it again. They've caused more problems for open-source recently by very successfully playing off the biggest problem that the Open-Source community as a whole has... fractioning into smaller groups. The more fractioned the community is, the easier it is for a corporate monopoly to push their agenda and cause problems for those who would like to see more choices. Maybe this whole situation will cause the Open-Source community as a whole to rethink how this thing works. I don't know if this means cutting down on the number of distributions (instead possibly making LSB encompass more about the OS), desktop environments (thank god for the Portland project), or choices in every possible aspect of today's Linux distribution (package management and binary compatibility needs to be standard in my opinion), but I for one am ready for such a discussion as well as an associated change that makes GNU/Linux a stronger competitor and better replacement to proprietary offerings than it is now.

Michael
12-21-2006, 11:02 AM
There is yet another repercussion from the MS-Novell patent deal...

The legendary Jeremy Allison (of Samba fame) has resigned from Novell in protest over the Microsoft-Novell patent agreement, which he calls "a mistake" which will be "damaging to Novell's success in the future."

His main issue with the deal, though, is "that even if it does not violate the letter of the licence, it violates the intent of the GPL licence the Samba code is released under, which is to treat all recipients of the code equally." He leaves the company at the end of this month. He explained why in a message sent to several Novell email lists, and the message included his letter to management:

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20061221081000710

afterburntdw
12-21-2006, 12:53 PM
I am glad to see that even some Novell employees don't find the deal palatable. I'm sure that we will see more resignations in the near future. He's absolutely right on the money by suggesting that there is no course of action to redeem themselves in the eyes of the community while the deal is in effect....Perhaps, even if and when it gets canceled, they might never be able to redeem their tarnished image.

It's only my personal opinion, but I think of N + MS as trying everything to skirt the legalities of the GPL2....I have never heard the license issue put as simply as his argument about the MS EULA. Kudos to Jeremy for standing up and doing what he believes is right!

some-guy
06-19-2008, 10:25 PM
Few things:
* FAQ on this is available here (http://en.opensuse.org/FAQ:Novell-MS)
* Novell/Suse has contributed to many projects, including Gnome and kde, they have the copyright to compiz, and xgl(I think)

So unless your pretty much not using network manager, nothing mono related, no samba, not the kde4 live cd, not X(yes they did contribute, even if it was a little), xen, probably as far as the kernel, you're not free of Novell's reach ;)

Sorry to bring back an old thread, there were just too many negative/maybes

gilboa
06-20-2008, 11:09 AM
Few things:
* FAQ on this is available here (http://en.opensuse.org/FAQ:Novell-MS)
* Novell/Suse has contributed to many projects, including Gnome and kde, they have the copyright to compiz, and xgl(I think)

So unless your pretty much not using network manager, nothing mono related, no samba, not the kde4 live cd, not X(yes they did contribute, even if it was a little), xen, probably as far as the kernel, you're not free of Novell's reach ;)

Sorry to bring back an old thread, there were just too many negative/maybes

Sigh...
A. Having contributed to a GPL project (Say, RedHat's NM) doesn't change the term under-which the project is released. If anything bad happens due to the MS-Novel cross-patent agreement it will have zero effect on such projects.
B. It will have huge effect on MS-technology-based projects (Such as mono) that Novel is shoving down deep our throat.
C. By entering such an agreement Novel has helped MS in it's on-going attempts to stifle the OSS eco-system by using the aging-yet-useless patent system. Neither the FAQ nor your argument can change that.

Yes, Novel is a big OSS contributer - no doubt about it.
I just doubt that these contributions are enough to put a positive spin on Novel's cowardly capitulation in-front of MS' FUD machine.

- Gilboa

deanjo
06-20-2008, 05:43 PM
Sigh...
B. It will have huge effect on MS-technology-based projects (Such as mono) that Novel is shoving down deep our throat.


How is it shoving it down anybodies thoat? You have the freedom to choose if you wish to use it or not.


C. By entering such an agreement Novel has helped MS in it's on-going attempts to stifle the OSS eco-system by using the aging-yet-useless patent system. Neither the FAQ nor your argument can change that.
The patent system is the gov't fault. Novell is simply addressing the issue and not ignoring it. Blame the gov't not the company that is following the laws of the land.


I just doubt that these contributions are enough to put a positive spin on Novel's cowardly capitulation in-front of MS' FUD machine.
Novells capitalization on the situation results in more investment into the various projects it sponsors as well. FOSS does see increased funding directly from the deal.


There are multiple views on how it can be perceived. Unfortunately, people tend to limit what they want to see instead of seeing the entire picture.

gilboa
06-21-2008, 09:23 AM
There are multiple views on how it can be perceived. Unfortunately, people tend to limit what they want to see instead of seeing the entire picture.

"Seeing the big picture" has nothing to do with it.
It's all a matter of risk assessment.
I asses (with good reason) that a end-of-all-things patent war is bound to happen once Microsoft feels threatened (E.g. if Microsoft's mind-share continues to drop, followed by the market share drop [Like the one Microsoft is experiencing in the private sector]).
I further asses that project such as moonlight and mono will be the first targets in this future Microsoft-led patent war.

Now, if you agree with these two basic assessments than:
A. Novel's cross patent deal can, and will be used by Microsoft to attack the OSS ecosystem.
B. Novel's push to integrate (into GNOME) Microsoft developed technologies such as .NET and Silverlight at the expense (?) of competing OSS technologies can, and will be used by Microsoft to attack other Linux distributions.
C. Novel should have been aware of these predicaments and chose to ignore them - one can only wonder why and to what end.

- Gilboa