Epic Games Does Suppress Linux Talk

[phoronix]

Phoronix: Epic Games Does Suppress Linux Talk

Last week we shared the sad reality about Unreal Tournament 3 that it's been 5 months and there's still no Linux client. There's not even any sign that the game client will still be made available for Linux once their "legal" problems are resolved...

http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=NjQ0Mg

[NilsHG]

I have been waiting for UT3 a long time and even though i am dual booting Ubuntu and Windows, i will not buy UT3 until they release a native linux client. If they fail to do so then i continue to be happy with ETQW :D

[Fixxer_Linux]

I have been waiting for UT3 a long time and even though i am dual booting Ubuntu and Windows, i will not buy UT3 until they release a native linux client. If they fail to do so then i continue to be happy with ETQW :D

Exactly the same here : I didn't bought UT3 and wont buy it until there is a native linux client.
ETQW is a nice game, even though I should prefer UT serie. Warsow and Nexuiz are worth a try.

However, even if I don't think linux customer have yet enough weight to counter-balance any profit and loss in Epic accounts, we have just to wait in the hope of something. I personally think they'll finally release it (I would also believe that the linux client is already finished), but they simply are very bad when it comes to communicate.

[Svartalf]

Story Dugg (http://digg.com/pc_games/Epic_Games_Seems_To_Be_Suppressing_Linux_Inquiries )

[Svartalf]

In all honesty, this one's gone just a bit far.

We need to handle this well- no badgering them. Just shine the light of the facts (including the details that they're deleting posts...) on them from off of the Internet. We need to make sure that the whole story shows in Slashdot, Digg (done...make it soar up, gang...), Boing-Boing (if possible...), Linux Games, and Linux Today.

You don't play these games. If you can't ship it, SAY SO. If you can, don't be doing this sort of crap.

[Malikith]

I just submitted news on this to http://www.linux-gamers.net . I see this is going to get very interesting. I normally wouldn't agitate Epic or any other game development company about this sort of thing but its just the way they've done it thats wrong.

[deanjo]

Perhaps sending the story to a few more mainstream tech sites will also get some needed exposure as well. Places like tomshardware, anandtech, the register, and maybe just maybe the inquirer could do something useful since this the kind of stories it likes to focus on.

[SlickMcRunfast]

NilsHG & Fixxer_Linux I'm in the same boat as you both with not buying the game until it makes its way to Linux.

At least Epic isn't like Valve.

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6510144#post6510144

[etymxris]

I see wine threads pop up every now and then on the Valve TF2 forum. They've never been locked. If you call out moderators or start whining about no native linux client, it's easy to see why they would lock the thread. Not saying I'd run a forum that way, but it should shock no one that those threads are locked.

The unreal tournament issue is different. Valve has already stated that they have no plans to port any client games to linux. But epic has promised a linux client, which has been in limbo for five months. At this point, I'm not holding out hope for a linux client ever being released. However, epic at least owes us a statement to that effect.

[Svartalf]

Perhaps sending the story to a few more mainstream tech sites will also get some needed exposure as well. Places like tomshardware, anandtech, the register, and maybe just maybe the inquirer could do something useful since this the kind of stories it likes to focus on.

Go for it. This needs to be made a bit more public than they really wanted it to be after these two cute stunts of theirs.

[SarahKH]

Registered to make this post....

I'm not surprised Epic are suppressing such talk, Atari did/do similar things with the epic failure that is/was Test Drive Unlimited... a highly unstable game which neither Atari, their internal dev team, or anyone else could explain why multiple people across different platforms were getting the same issue.

Forums, more specifically game producer forums, are very tightly regulated and controlled these days; you can't bad mouth or show a product to be defective.

[Jimmy]

... However, epic at least owes us a statement to that effect.

You know what? Screw it, Epic Fail. I won't buy the game (even if it actually does come out). Take that to the PR department... there is one right?

[Thetargos]

In all honesty, this one's gone just a bit far.

We need to handle this well- no badgering them. Just shine the light of the facts (including the details that they're deleting posts...) on them from off of the Internet. We need to make sure that the whole story shows in Slashdot, Digg (done...make it soar up, gang...), Boing-Boing (if possible...), Linux Games, and Linux Today.

You don't play these games. If you can't ship it, SAY SO. If you can, don't be doing this sort of crap.

Don't know if it will have any effect, but I have contacted Adrian Kingsley-Hughes, responsible for the Hardware 2.0 (http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/) blog at ZDNet.com, about this and asked him to see if he would give this issue some coverage (hence exposure) or try and see if he could get some sort of statement off Epic, I mean, he's IT press after all. We'll see what comes out of this, I hope we can get as much exposure as possible.

[niniendowarrior]

how on earth do I digg this Epic Games Linux snafu article? It's time Linux folks fight back!:D

[mirv]

While it's entirely up to epic to release a linux client (or not), I have to agree with everyone that what they're doing here is going a bit far. The UT franchise requires community support to keep it going (e.g mods) which in turn keep their game, and hence engine, known and appealing to companies wanting to license their tech. To me, what they're doing here is a classic sign of the collective game company growing too large an ego and thinking they can do whatever they want, and people will like it. Time will tell how all this affects Epic as a whole I guess.

[Michael]

In my RSS feed I seen Icculus updated his blog. I had hoped for a half-second that it was about UT3, but then when I clicked the link, absolutely no mention of UT3: http://icculus.org/cgi-bin/finger/finger.pl?user=icculus&date=2008-04-22&time=23-32-23

[deanjo]

Go for it. This needs to be made a bit more public than they really wanted it to be after these two cute stunts of theirs.

News has been submitted to the Inquirer, The Register, and Arstechnica. Can't find any contact info on Toms. If somebody has the contact info for some other sites I will gladly fire off a news submission if they PM me the email addies to do so for other sites.

[Svartalf]

In my RSS feed I seen Icculus updated his blog. I had hoped for a half-second that it was about UT3, but then when I clicked the link, absolutely no mention of UT3: http://icculus.org/cgi-bin/finger/finger.pl?user=icculus&date=2008-04-22&time=23-32-23

Heh... You're being too hopeful Michael.

The behaviors are consistent with a company operating under an NDA precluding them discussing anything on the given subject, in this case, the Client for Linux. As to what precipitated the NDA, your guess is as good as mine- the rumor of a piece of middleware may be true as all get out. It may not even be the middleware that went into the Linux client that's the problem; it could be a certain console one...

We may never hear anything out of them.

[Thetargos]

I guess we'll never know for sure what is the hold up and why have they decided to forsake Linux talk from the forums. Maybe they were asked by Microsoft to do so in order to have the game in the 360 (a long shot and it'd be stretching it) or they simply lost interest... Whatever the reason, as I've said before, it's their prerogative.

I hope Ryan keeps on working in interesting projects for Linux.

[immudium]

I do see a silver lining in the fact that they have not simply flat out canned the Linux client altogether. No news is still good news in this case. I believe Epic still wants to release it, especially if they've already paid one or more developers like Ryan Gordon to port it. I also believe that Microsoft has had a heavy hand in preventing it from being released. Gears of War was a huge success on the 360 and it would not surprise me if Microsoft and Epic made an exclusivity agreement for Gears of War 2 and as part of that agreement prevented the Unreal Engine from being ported to other platforms such as the PS3 and/or Linux for a certain amount of time as is typically done for most exclusive console titles.

My only hope at this point is that the 5+ wait is not an indication that Epic will abandon all future Linux endeavors. The fact that they've publicly announced their love for consoles to the detriment of even the Windows platform has me even more concerned for the future of Epic games on Linux.

[deanjo]

I do see a silver lining in the fact that they have not simply flat out canned the Linux client altogether. No news is still good news in this case. I believe Epic still wants to release it, especially if they've already paid one or more developers like Ryan Gordon to port it. I also believe that Microsoft has had a heavy hand in preventing it from being released. Gears of War was a huge success on the 360 and it would not surprise me if Microsoft and Epic made an exclusivity agreement for Gears of War 2 and as part of that agreement prevented the Unreal Engine from being ported to other platforms such as the PS3 and/or Linux for a certain amount of time as is typically done for most exclusive console titles.

My only hope at this point is that the 5+ wait is not an indication that Epic will abandon all future Linux endeavors. The fact that they've publicly announced their love for consoles to the detriment of even the Windows platform has me even more concerned for the future of Epic games on Linux.


Huh? The PS3 version has been out since early December. There have been many games in the past with "Linux version to be available" that never see the light of day. They next to never put out a release what will say "We said we would put a client out, but we changed our minds." Almost in every single case where a linux client was pulled or killed there hasn't been a press release saying so. They just let people yell until they go away.

[NeoBrain]

Huh? The PS3 version has been out since early December. There have been many games in the past with "Linux version to be available" that never see the light of day. They next to never put out a release what will say "We said we would put a client out, but we changed our minds." Almost in every single case where a linux client was pulled or killed there hasn't been a press release saying so. They just let people yell until they go away.
The difference, however, is that Epic Games has already released many linux clients for the Unreal series.

[Svartalf]

The difference, however, is that Epic Games has already released many linux clients for the Unreal series.

Past performance does not indicate current performance with business. I will give them a small benefit of the doubt here because of their past performance- but only a small one. In the past they've never handled a delay like this in the manner that they're doing things; this is different from the prior Linux supporting products from them- almost like one of their publishers put the kibosh on things.

[deanjo]

Past performance does not indicate current performance with business. I will give them a small benefit of the doubt here because of their past performance- but only a small one. In the past they've never handled a delay like this in the manner that they're doing things; this is different from the prior Linux supporting products from them- almost like one of their publishers put the kibosh on things.

Exactly, you can't base ANY companies current strategies by their past record. IT have to companies evolve, adapt, and adjust going with the current and future trends that can give them the greatest return on investment during the present and future. Those companies that don't die a quick death.

[Thetargos]

Past performance does not indicate current performance with business. I will give them a small benefit of the doubt here because of their past performance- but only a small one. In the past they've never handled a delay like this in the manner that they're doing things; this is different from the prior Linux supporting products from them- almost like one of their publishers put the kibosh on things.

I'd say that it is JUST because of their past performance that users are most upset with them this time around.

[hmmm]

no one picked up on the weighted companion cube in ryan's latest post... orange box :)

Or he is just enjoying his cake :D

What annoy most linux fans is that they have no idea of the status of the port. Epic should just say "Port has been killed" or "port in 2 mnths..".

[Svartalf]

I caught that... There's two meanings there... He's a Half-Life fan, or he's intimating that Orange Box is coming to Linux and, as a result, Steam (which is where Epic's going for PC distribution...), which was the real hold-up for UT3...

The toppings on the cake, by the by, were chocolate orange wedges as best as I could tell...

[edit]
Heh... Don't tell anyone, but I think Ryan might have been trying to tell us something there:

title="(Apparently it's not a lie.)"
alt="(Apparently it's not a lie.)"

[deanjo]

I caught that... There's two meanings there... He's a Half-Life fan, or he's intimating that Orange Box is coming to Linux and this and as a result, Steam (which is where Epic's going for PC distribution...), was the hold-up for UT3...

The toppings on the cake, by the by, were chocolate orange wedges as best as I could tell...

Or he's saying that he is a very lonely person and must rely on himself to give him a birthday party and pretends the cube is a real friend.

[Moustacha]

I caught that... There's two meanings there... He's a Half-Life fan, or he's intimating that Orange Box is coming to Linux and, as a result, Steam (which is where Epic's going for PC distribution...), which was the real hold-up for UT3...

Dude, I hope you're so right!

[Svartalf]

Dude, I hope you're so right!

I'm not holding my breath. I like wearing blue...as clothing, not as my skin color...

But, it's a possibility all the same. ;)

[Svartalf]

Or he's saying that he is a very lonely person and must rely on himself to give him a birthday party and pretends the cube is a real friend.

Riiight... Ryan's definitely not without friends. :D

[deanjo]

Riiight... Ryan's definitely not without friends. :D

He could be hiding right now with all the headhunters looking for the UT3 client.:p

[Thetargos]

Wild thought: Could Steam the middleware Ryan was talking about, and Epic is waiting for the client of that to be released so they can release their game? Dumb idea, I know, is just taht we've pretty much covered it all... what's more what if he is doing the Steam port? There goes the dreamer again... Somebody stop me.

[MasterGH]

Well, all I can add to this is something I found on the mailing list quite some time ago (which I kept forgetting to post) which suggests Ryan knew there were going to be issues:


Subject: Re: [ut3] 64 Bit Linux Version?
From: "Ryan C. Gordon" <icculus@icculus.org>
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 04:12:12 -0400
Thomas Kowaliczek wrote:
> Will it give an 64 Bit Linux version? like ut2004 ?

No plans to do this at this time (but if I ever get a free moment, I'll
look into it...I have a feeling that a lot of middleware is going to be
problematic this time around, though).

--ryan.


edit:

On a side note, UT3 was what I was hoping to have fun with on Linux after I get my next PC...appears like I'll just have to keep with UT99/04 :(

[Svartalf]

He could be hiding right now with all the headhunters looking for the UT3 client.:p

Heh... Ever the pessimist, eh, deanjo? Keep doing that- at the least it'll keep Thetargos and myself honest... >:-) :D

[deanjo]

Wild thought: Could Steam the middleware Ryan was talking about, and Epic is waiting for the client of that to be released so they can release their game? Dumb idea, I know, is just taht we've pretty much covered it all... what's more what if he is doing the Steam port? There goes the dreamer again... Somebody stop me.

I suggested that over a month ago. :p

http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showpost.php?p=27433&postcount=167

[Svartalf]

I suggested that over a month ago. :p

http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showpost.php?p=27433&postcount=167

Hey now, you're supposed to be pessimistic here... :P

[Thetargos]

I suggested that over a month ago. :p

http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showpost.php?p=27433&postcount=167

Yeah, you did mention it may be Steam, I mentioned (based on Valve's job announcement on their site) that maybe they're actually working on a port.

[Shakey_Jake33]

I'm surprised the idea of a Linux port of a piece of DRM-infected software like Steam gets such an enthusiastic reaction, though I appreciate that it could encourage more developers to add Linux functionality. It's be a royal shame if it was something like that holding up UT3. I'd prefer to think they were holding it up to release it in time with the 360 or Mac port- it still not a good thing, but at least we're not bound by Steam that way.

[Redeeman]

I guess we'll never know for sure what is the hold up and why have they decided to forsake Linux talk from the forums. Maybe they were asked by Microsoft to do so in order to have the game in the 360 (a long shot and it'd be stretching it) or they simply lost interest... Whatever the reason, as I've said before, it's their prerogative.

I hope Ryan keeps on working in interesting projects for Linux.

and how exactly do you figure its "their prerogative" ? they announced that the shit was coming, and as a result people have gone out and bought their software, since they were promised that they were gonna be able to play it on linux, with a native client. Its been half a year, and nothing has been released, hell, they havent even said why, said when they expect it to be released, or even said if its still going to be released.. You know, there is a little thing called a lie, and epic's marketing might need to look that up.

[Ze..]

Past performance does not indicate current performance with business.
Exactly, you can't base ANY companies current strategies by their past record
It's not perfect information but it's generally better than none :) If I was a gambling on this I'd be a fool to ignore past performance.

[deanjo]

It's not perfect information but it's generally better than none :) If I was a gambling on this I'd be a fool to ignore past performance.


Only if your comparing company A to company B and betting on which will follow though given a choice. When gambling on the certainty of just one company, especially in the IT industry, marketing strategies changes with the tides based on current and future needs and wants.

[Svartalf]

I'm surprised the idea of a Linux port of a piece of DRM-infected software like Steam gets such an enthusiastic reaction, though I appreciate that it could encourage more developers to add Linux functionality. It's be a royal shame if it was something like that holding up UT3. I'd prefer to think they were holding it up to release it in time with the 360 or Mac port- it still not a good thing, but at least we're not bound by Steam that way.

You know, I'm not so thrilled as having Steam, as having an answer to it all. No answers and the conduct they've had recently is troubling.

[xav1r]

Steam is crap. Maybe for buying old games you can't find anywhere else, but for new releases having to authenticate and connect to the web each time, besides the connection you already have to the internet with your broadband connection just for playing single or multiplayer is crap. Newell can take his steam and shove it up his big a**.

[Thetargos]

and how exactly do you figure its "their prerogative" ? they announced that the shit was coming, and as a result people have gone out and bought their software, since they were promised that they were gonna be able to play it on linux, with a native client. Its been half a year, and nothing has been released, hell, they havent even said why, said when they expect it to be released, or even said if its still going to be released.. You know, there is a little thing called a lie, and epic's marketing might need to look that up.

It is still entirely up to them. They said it was coming, never said when or that they would actually commit... Just like politicians, they say a lot of stuff during campaign, and are actually seldom able to deliver all of their promises. And even if they did, it is still their right (prerogative) to cancel the project if they so choose to. It is wrong, it means they lied, but it is still their option to release it or not... And there's nothing you can do, except maybe get your money back, which I'd doubt because, you bought the Windows version anyway, and nowhere in the box is stated Linux support, despite anything they might have said.

[Thetargos]

Steam is crap. Maybe for buying old games you can't find anywhere else, but for new releases having to authenticate and connect to the web each time, besides the connection you already have to the internet with your broadband connection just for playing single or multiplayer is crap. Newell can take his steam and shove it up his big a**.

Yes, Steam as a service is crap, as a delivery mechanism could be useful, but still leaves you wondering what kind of information such a service is "phoning home", not to mention the potential resource hogging it may be in Linux, and what it is on Windows.

[Svartalf]

And there's nothing you can do, except maybe get your money back, which I'd doubt because, you bought the Windows version anyway, and nowhere in the box is stated Linux support, despite anything they might have said.

Indeed... I've always wondered why people bought things like they do on this stuff in the first place.

If it doesn't have a Linux version, official or unofficial, why, for Pete's Sake, would you buy the title in the first place if you're not planning on using Windows to run the software in the first place?

I do it only in instances where I'm scouting out a title for LGP. I've only done it once and the title I was going to ask Michael about trying to get the porting rights to, he'd already beat me to the punch. I've pretty much not bought much of anything else- and all other games are Linux titles or Wii titles at this point.

I don't care if they say they're going to, until they DO it, there's no Linux version, now is there? You don't reward someone on just promises- you reward their deeds. Even if Epic has done versions, even ones on the install CD, in the past- they've not done it yet for UT3, now have they? May never do so. Unless you have "Linux Version" on the box, you just bought a Windows SKU and you'll play hell getting your money back on what is a working version of what you bought in the first place...

If you bought UT3, expecting to get a Linux client, I feel for you- but only to a point. You knew you weren't really buying a Linux copy- until that client ships, you can't buy a Linux copy. And running a title under WINE/Cedega/Crossover Games is, while running under Linux, adding a vote for the WRONG PLATFORM with your dollars. Why artificially prolong that Windows monopoly?

[Fixxer_Linux]

Yes, Steam as a service is crap, as a delivery mechanism could be useful, but still leaves you wondering what kind of information such a service is "phoning home", not to mention the potential resource hogging it may be in Linux, and what it is on Windows.

I don't mind using steam with Linux as long as it's made open-source and therefore I'm sure that :
no information is send over the net against my will, no adverts are made for games that I don't care (pop-ups are as annoying as they are frequent in steam and in Windows in general).

Steam made open-source. This could be a april's fool post title ! :D

[Shakey_Jake33]

I'm not even naive enough to expect it to be open source (though that would be ideal!), but the entire concept of having to register as part of a service, and use a client that has to call home every time we dare to use our own legally purchased software, it represents everything that I left Windows for in the first place. It's a shame because I'm all for digital distribution, removing the increasingly redundant processes that make up the traditional physical content distribution systems, essentially being propped up by the existing industry to save having to invest money into moving with the market changes and consumer desires.

[xav1r]

Steam is DRM, which is about limiting your choice. Linux is free software/open source, which is everything about choice. So both won't go together.

[Thetargos]

Steam is DRM, which is about limiting your choice. Linux is free software/open source, which is everything about choice. So both won't go together.

Free software is about Freedom, even if you choose to renounce to those freedoms under certain circumstances, it remains your freedom to do so. I don't like Steam one bit, but as a delivery system it has proven to be reliable, nothing more.

[deanjo]

Free software is about Freedom, even if you choose to renounce to those freedoms under certain circumstances, it remains your freedom to do so. I don't like Steam one bit, but as a delivery system it has proven to be reliable, nothing more.

Well said, simply put, you don't like it, then don't support it.

I personally see nothing wrong with steam even with DRM intact. Ideally I wish the world would wake up and software engines and executables would be all be opensource with only the creative content having restrictions placed on it if wished like what id does with it's older engines but we are a long ways from that being accepted as a standard. I can't help but wonder how many less buggy games there would be if that business model was adapted.

[Thetargos]

Well said, simply put, you don't like it, then don't support it.

I personally see nothing wrong with steam even with DRM intact. Ideally I wish the world would wake up and software engines and executables would be all be opensource with only the creative content having restrictions placed on it if wished like what id does with it's older engines but we are a long ways from that being accepted as a standard. I can't help but wonder how many less buggy games there would be if that business model was adapted.

It would actually be cool if Steam could be "broken down" to its delivery mechanism and its authentication system to be less intrusive. For example, it would be awesome if the web site could be use to authenticate an installation and not require the service to authenticate the copy prior running the program, but use a client as a sorts of e-store client to buy and download games, having the client be open source (to reassure customers about no extra info being sent). I don't think it'll ever happen, but "I'm a dreamer".

[Shakey_Jake33]

Look at it this way - would you want your movies or music to have to authenticate online before you can use them? The only difference with games is that the PC medium makes it easier to do so, it doesn't make it any more right or consumer friendly. And ultimately, they're not doing it for our sake, and it sure as hell won't curb piracy (Steam games will be, and will continue to be cracked - and these illegit copies will be easier to use because the lack the need to authenticate, ironically). I think the content delivery itself is brilliant, but the authentication serves no purpose.

[deanjo]

Look at it this way - would you want your movies or music to have to authenticate online before you can use them? The only difference with games is that the PC medium makes it easier to do so, it doesn't make it any more right or consumer friendly. And ultimately, they're not doing it for our sake, and it sure as hell won't curb piracy (Steam games will be, and will continue to be cracked - and these illegit copies will be easier to use because the lack the need to authenticate, ironically). I think the content delivery itself is brilliant, but the authentication serves no purpose.


Why not? It's more incentive to give people net access where ever they are :D. In this day and age, a non connected computer is a extremely limited device.

[deanjo]

May 19th, 6 months and still no joy.