LGP To Start Work On Another Game

[phoronix]

Phoronix: LGP To Start Work On Another Game

Linux Game Publishing is still in the middle of porting X3: Reunion and Bandits: Phoenix Rising to Linux, but they soon will be starting work on another title. This game coming to Linux, however, still isn't known...

http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=NjQ1OA

[RussDill]

I was all set to use some poisson interpolating algorithms, but they are too smart. They filled the missing pixels with noise instead of black.

[NeoBrain]

lol this picture makes me mad. You can see everything and you can see nothing, but every hour or so you're able to recognize one more shape.
There's a white ball on the lower right corner and a black on on the top right corner.
In the bottom left corner there's this something that reminds me of a street and I just saw that there could be some text to the left of the white ball.
Also, in the white ball there are written three letters (LGY?) and a fourth one, an S, is right next to the right of it.
That was everything I see so far without doing any speculations, I have no clue :D

EDIT: Oh yeah, I forgot that there's an arrow which points to the "street"

[[Knuckles]]

The white ball is the LGP logo, and is probably covering up the game's name.

I was able to distinguish some things, but I've been a bit out of the loop of new games, so It didn't remind me of any I know.

(Also it seems to me that there's a kind of dinosaur/godzilla-like creature in the middle, but it could be just my imagination =D).

[NeoBrain]

Oh well, if I had spent more that 2 seconds on LGP itself I'd have recognized that xD
Don't know where you see a godzilla, however on the top left I think I see a smile, i.e. the top left "ball" is a head :D
Still doesn't make any sense to me yet though.

[d2kx]

I think you have to turn it by 180°. It looks like it starts with "S" and looks like a strategy game with fire in the top-left and water in the top-right. On the bottom-right there's a minimap or something like that. I have some ideas but will wait a bit... oh and you have to download the image so you get the full 1280x1024 image, then you see things much better, and go as far away from the monitor as possible.

[yoshi314]

i was thinking along nwn2 , but it's hard to tell exactly for now :]

[deanjo]

i was thinking along nwn2 , but it's hard to tell exactly for now :]

One could only wish. It would be nice if LGP could match at least Aspyr with their game offerings on the Mac.

[MasterGH]

Hmm, to me it does look like some sort of screeny from an RTS. Anyone else see some sort of boat in the bottom left corner next to some water?

EDIT:

Kinda a wild guess, but does anyone think it may be one of the Battle for Middle-earth games?

[ZedDB]

By looking on the parts of the logo that we see, I think it might be an RPG comming this year Q3/Q4.

[hmmm]

competition has ended http://competition.linuxgamepublishing.com/

[ZedDB]

Meh, I thought it was Sacred 2 :(

[Kevin]

Why even bother porting such old and unpopular games to Linux? Will skip!

[deanjo]

Why even bother porting such old and unpopular games to Linux? Will skip!

Ditto, another 4 year old game isn't worth the money especially when it has a platinum rating on wine. Why would I spend $60 for a game that I can pick up in a bargin bin for $5 and just run it in wine?

[niniendowarrior]

This is not a fair way to treat LGP. They've worked to get this and Sacred isn't really such a bad deal. While the truth is that the game is now probably in the bargain bins on Windows, they are continuing to work on getting games to the Linux end. You people need to show some appreciation over the kind of work they are doing. I hope LGP takes into account the pricings because there is a price point to contest with, but at the same time, more power to them. Sacred isn't a very old game, but it's not new either (Sacred 2 is about to come out, I reckon).

I am just tired over the Linux folks bickering about why are they bothering to port bla bla bla. If you don't want it, don't buy it. There are people who are happy over the news. Stop whining. Stop bickering. You probably don't know the entire industry picture and how much into hell these guys went into to get this game.

Just my two cents.:mad:

[deanjo]

If one never voices why they would not buy a product the situation will never improve. Let's be realistic, gamers want games that are going to exploit their systems. They spend money on the latest videocards, motherboards and processors and would like to see them used. Take a look at the phoronix results site and you'll see that pretty much any machine there is overkill for an aging game.

Wow and flash is what gets attention, there is no better example of that then compiz fusion. The eyecandy is what has drawn the largest segment of new users to linux since it's debut. Go into any linux forum or chat room and you will see that the eyecandy is what the n00bs all want to know how to get going.

Start getting games released in linux that push the machines to their capability to draw attention that linux is a viable gaming OS and the "prejudice's and misconceptions" that it's not good at gaming would start melting away. Tell any Windows users (hell even a Mac user) that a game that was released four years ago is finally available for linux at a premium price and ,if they are at least polite, will simply smirk and turn away.

[hmmm]

if the linux version of ancient game was to introduce more capabilities/possibilities to the platform (as opposed to a more recent game pushing your comp to the limits) I would be stoked to buy the game (for the artwork, characters etc). For example, the open sourcing of q3 code produced many benefits for the codebase (see ioquake3).

Perhaps if LGP was to convince that the sacred engine would BENEFIT as a result of open sourcing... perhaps then the engine might intrigue coders into making it "wow and flash" others. Silver tree comes 2 my mind....

LGP deserve the credit for getting the deal to publish the game (my lil bro loves this game) BUT they should try and make more of an impact on the Linux/GPL ecosystem so then all their effort is not wasted on a solitary game which possibly goes unpurchased.

Icculus mentions this in that UCLUG talk as well - his focus has shifted from porting games to porting engines....

an old linux.com article dated from 2004 http://www.linux.com/feature/37857 states the possibilities (while referring to the doom 3 engine)...

[deanjo]

if the linux version of ancient game was to introduce more capabilities/possibilities to the platform (as opposed to a more recent game pushing your comp to the limits) I would be stoked to buy the game (for the artwork, characters etc). For example, the open sourcing of q3 code produced many benefits for the codebase (see ioquake3).

Perhaps if LGP was to convince that the sacred engine would BENEFIT as a result of open sourcing... perhaps then the engine might intrigue coders into making it "wow and flash" others. Silver tree comes 2 my mind....

LGP deserve the credit for getting the deal to publish the game (my lil bro loves this game) BUT they should try and make more of an impact on the Linux/GPL ecosystem so then all their effort is not wasted on a solitary game which possibly goes unpurchased.

Icculus mentions this in that UCLUG talk as well - his focus has shifted from porting games to porting engines....

an old linux.com article dated from 2004 http://www.linux.com/feature/37857 states the possibilities (while referring to the doom 3 engine)...

Opensourcing the engines would be absolutely lovely but unfortunatly the engines are where the money is at in game development. I could only imagine the possibilities of what the infinity engine could be made to do. The falcon 4 mod teams when they were presented with the source under NDA completely modernized the capabilities of an old sim. Until this day because of this agreement, Falcon 4.0 still remains the undisputed flight combat sim that utilizes and still can push modern systems to their limits. There aren't too many games out there that after decade can still say they are actively being officially patched (Last official patch was 2008-1-27)

(PS A Falcon 4 port to linux, despite being a 10 year old sim, would be far more profitable for LPG and it's a game that really has no substitute in windows let alone linux)

[Svartalf]

Meh, I thought it was Sacred 2 :(

If this does decent, it WILL be that next. :D

[Svartalf]

Ditto, another 4 year old game isn't worth the money especially when it has a platinum rating on wine. Why would I spend $60 for a game that I can pick up in a bargin bin for $5 and just run it in wine?

Heh... So you can run it in Wine... With what class of machine, pray tell, Deanjo?

It's worth noting that your remarks with regards to stretching machines is valid- for the power gamer crowd. You. Me. What about the rest of the Linux community? They're not you or I.

Furthermore, you want Sacred 2 and things like it?

You're NOT going to get them with the attitude you're espousing here. PERIOD. Each purchase of even a "bargain bin" version of the Windows title is a vote for THAT platform. Each vote counts against you even though you're using Linux. They don't give a damn about how many people are using Linux (even though it's a hell of a lot more than the 10 million that keeps getting bandied around by IDC...)- all they care about is how many units of an SKU sells.

When you buy a Windows version and run it under WINE, you inflate the numbers for the Windows version.

All of you keep WHINING about not having software around to play- well, you guys are part of the damn problem, not the solution when you claim "why would I buy that when I can run it in WINE" or similar. When you DON'T buy some of those "old" titles, the studios and publishers don't have any metrics whatsoever on the prospects of selling things.

[Svartalf]

(PS A Falcon 4 port to linux, despite being a 10 year old sim, would be far more profitable for LPG and it's a game that really has no substitute in windows let alone linux)

I wish that would be doable, deanjo- really, I would. I'd do my best to jam a remix of that one specifically for Linux out the door. The problem would be that if we COULD find the rights holder, I doubt they'd be reasonable on royalties to make it happen. If you can find me the rights holder and I can make him allow it to happen, I'd knock it out for you just because of what I said- because it'd be a Linux SKU to point people to to help fix the problem.

Wanna step up to the plate? I can't do it on my own because MY plate's a bit full with things including a full-time job above and beyond the LGP stuff.

[deanjo]

I wish that would be doable, deanjo- really, I would. I'd do my best to jam a remix of that one specifically for Linux out the door. The problem would be that if we COULD find the rights holder, I doubt they'd be reasonable on royalties to make it happen. If you can find me the rights holder and I can make him allow it to happen, I'd knock it out for you just because of what I said- because it'd be a Linux SKU to point people to to help fix the problem.

Wanna step up to the plate? I can't do it on my own because MY plate's a bit full with things including a full-time job above and beyond the LGP stuff.

Lead Pursuit, Inc.
1739 S.W. Loop 410
Suite # 804-117
San Antonio, TX 78227
USA
Tel / Fax: + 1 512 275 3808

[Svartalf]

Lead Pursuit, Inc.
1739 S.W. Loop 410
Suite # 804-117
San Antonio, TX 78227
USA
Tel / Fax: + 1 512 275 3808




My, oh my... I'm impressed. And they're relatively local to me. I'll check into it then. Thanks for the lead, deanjo. Honest.

[edit]

This is even more funny... Their publisher is in town. No promises...but I'll check into this shortly and get word back on the forums about what their take is on at least a Linux version out of them.

[deanjo]

My, oh my... I'm impressed. And they're relatively local to me. I'll check into it then. Thanks for the lead, deanjo. Honest.

[edit]

This is even more funny... Their publisher is in town. No promises...but I'll check into this shortly and get word back on the forums about what their take is on at least a Linux version out of them.

Not expecting a promise, just thought they would be a good candidate since they allowed the modding community to update the game under NDA.

[Svartalf]

Not expecting a promise, just thought they would be a good candidate since they allowed the modding community to update the game under NDA.

I caught that. :D I'm a bit busy today (and their comment code's busted...) so I'll have to bang out a formal letter to them from Earl Consulting Services (I'm not about to commit Michael Simms to things without his say-so... ;)) and see what they have to say.

[Aradreth]

Any game being made for linux is a win in my eyes, more so if it's an RPG 'cause RPG > *

[deanjo]

Any game being made for linux is a win in my eyes, more so if it's an RPG 'cause RPG > *

I still shed a tear everytime I think of the Ultima series being dead.......

[Aradreth]

I still shed a tear everytime I think of the Ultima series being dead.......
Considering who owns the brand for it now I think it's better of dead sadly. Personally it was Baldurs Gate and Planescape that got me in to RPG's, I've most have waste hundreds of hours on each.

[deanjo]

Considering who owns the brand for it now I think it's better of dead sadly. Personally it was Baldurs Gate and Planescape that got me in to RPG's, I've most have waste hundreds of hours on each.

Heh, I know EA has butchered alot of games in the past but they also have had some successes. EA Sports games for example hold up well, the C&C series is alive and well, not to mention the Sims.

My first RPG was akalabeth (precursor to Ultima 1) and played all though out the entire series. Lands of Lore was another and then Planescape and onto NWN. (Dungeon Siege wasn't bad also, A LOT better then the movie:D).

[hmmm]

I could only imagine the possibilities of what the infinity engine could be made to do.

http://linux.prinas.si/gemrb/doku.php#screenshots_and_videos



(PS A Falcon 4 port to linux, despite being a 10 year old sim, would be far more profitable for LPG and it's a game that really has no substitute in windows let alone linux)

thats an awesome idea - I would definitely consider picking up a copy if the port was done :D

[deanjo]

http://linux.prinas.si/gemrb/doku.php#screenshots_and_videos


I actually meant the Aurora Engine (too many engines to keep track of :p). What the creators of The Witcher did with that engine was awesome. (Hint hint another game I would love to see ported :p)

[hmmm]

(Hint hint another game I would love to see ported :p)

take it easy :D let svartalf get back to us about falcon 4.0: AA first :P

svartalf: let us know how it pans out....

[Aradreth]

I actually meant the Aurora Engine (too many engines to keep track of :p). What the creators of The Witcher did with that engine was awesome. (Hint hint another game I would love to see ported :p)

The sad thing about The Witcher is that it was going to be released for linux as well as Windows but then got canceled. A real shame as it looks like an awesome game.

[Svartalf]

The sad thing about The Witcher is that it was going to be released for linux as well as Windows but then got canceled. A real shame as it looks like an awesome game.

Now... Take a wild guess WHO cancelled it, hm?

[Aradreth]

Now... Take a wild guess WHO cancelled it, hm?
Atari of course seeing as it happened about the same time they became the publisher I believe. A stupid move on their part in my eyes seeing as it was being made to be cross platform, so all the work done to allow it to run on Linux (and mac? not sure if a mac version was planned) prior to it being cancelled was lost with no monetary benefits.

[Svartalf]

Atari of course seeing as it happened about the same time they became the publisher I believe. A stupid move on their part in my eyes seeing as it was being made to be cross platform, so all the work done to allow it to run on Linux (and mac? not sure if a mac version was planned) prior to it being cancelled was lost with no monetary benefits.

Probably not so stupid a move...they were courting MS at the time; don't forget that NWN2 was changed to DirectX only, partly due to their desire for an X-Box 360 version that would compete with Oblivion which ended up going nowhere because they were largely barking up the wrong tree with NWN2.

[Aradreth]

Probably not so stupid a move...they were courting MS at the time; don't forget that NWN2 was changed to DirectX only, partly due to their desire for an X-Box 360 version that would compete with Oblivion which ended up going nowhere because they were largely barking up the wrong tree with NWN2.
I hadn't released that they wanted to make a X-Box version of NWN2 but it does go some way to explain why the linux version was cancelled.

[Licaon]

Sacred tanked on Windows, who would want this on Linux since we have The Witcher and the rest running fine with WINE?

too bad that the good intentions of linuxgamepublishing meet these bad game choices

and another thing "plans to ship the title in August of this year" lulz... the X3 port should have been out in Aug 2007, now it's just at Closed Beta 9...wtf?!!?!

[deanjo]

Atari of course seeing as it happened about the same time they became the publisher I believe. A stupid move on their part in my eyes seeing as it was being made to be cross platform, so all the work done to allow it to run on Linux (and mac? not sure if a mac version was planned) prior to it being cancelled was lost with no monetary benefits.

NWN2 for mac exists and the renderer is openGL. It does not use the Cider engine and is fully native.

http://www.aspyr.com/product/info/84

[Aradreth]

NWN2 for mac exists and the renderer is openGL. It does not use the Cider engine and is fully native.

http://www.aspyr.com/product/info/84
I know there is a mac version of NWN2, I was talking about The Witcher which was planned to have a linux release but then it was cancelled.

[Aradreth]

Sacred tanked on Windows, who would want this on Linux since we have The Witcher and the rest running fine with WINE?

too bad that the good intentions of linuxgamepublishing meet these bad game choices

and another thing "plans to ship the title in August of this year" lulz... the X3 port should have been out in Aug 2007, now it's just at Closed Beta 9...wtf?!!?!
Firstly if I remember correctly they were having issues with certain sound setups with X3 and I believe I read somewhere they would only be announcing games when they where close to completion because of what happened with Disciples 2 and X3 (delays and such) but my memory isn't the best so that maybe wrong. As for the choice of games, they go for what they can afford they can't just pull money out of thin air to pay to port a AAA title.

[deanjo]

As for the choice of games, they go for what they can afford they can't just pull money out of thin air to pay to port a AAA title.

One could only dream of LPG, Ryan and Aspyre teaming up. They seem to have the cash needed.

[Aradreth]

One could only dream of LPG, Ryan and Aspyre teaming up. They seem to have the cash needed.
That would indeed make me very happy. :P

[Svartalf]

Sacred tanked on Windows, who would want this on Linux since we have The Witcher and the rest running fine with WINE?

too bad that the good intentions of linuxgamepublishing meet these bad game choices

and another thing "plans to ship the title in August of this year" lulz... the X3 port should have been out in Aug 2007, now it's just at Closed Beta 9...wtf?!!?!

They're not bad game choices- they're only bad in YOUR opinion. Moreover, you're lucky that WINE even runs it. They busted the hell out of Diablo and Diablo II with the Platinum beta run of WINE. WINE's a band-aid, not an answer, no matter what you say.

I'm going to venture forth my personal opinion here.

It does not reflect any official position of ANY company whatsoever. It's not wholly directed at you, though
you're the recipient because you're the mouther off du jour on the subject I'm about to comment upon.


who would want this on Linux since we have The Witcher and the rest running fine with WINE?


You.
Are.
Part.
Of.
The.
Problem.

Each title you buy under WINDOWS, I don't care what you run it under, is a vote to continue to have vendors make only titles for Windows. If you don't want to play Sacred, fine, voice your opinion as such and go on (which I'm supposing you're doing...)- but do NOT keep whining about there NOT being any Linux titles. The studios and publishers do NOT care how many users there are out there for a given OS- they only care about what is currently selling. When you buy a Windows title, that's what got sold- no more, no less.

When you buy the Witcher, you're sending Atari the message that it's "okay" to keep making Windows versions and that it was "okay" for them to pull the plug (Which is what happened there...) on the planned Linux version of the same. Personally, I don't care how GOOD the title is- if they're going to do things like that I don't want to play it at all. You shouldn't either because you're encouraging them to snub you in this manner. Honest.

Without numbers, they'll just keep doing this stuff. It continues to amaze me that people will just keep doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result each and every time they do it- and I'm NOT referring to the studios here.

And if you think these are bad decisions, it's not because they're bad, it's because these are the only titles where the studios will give LGP, Runesoft, etc. the time of day and ask for doable royalty structures.

There's one of three ways to fix this.

1) Cough up about 10 million per year for about the next 3-4 years (I am dead serious about this...) to subsidize about 5-10 titles per year in the genres that you all keep complaining about so they can be made and someone can take a small to medium loss on the whole deal; just so we can have sales figures to start shifting the situation more in the Linux community's favor.

2) Buy up titles that look good to you (And NOT basing it on tanking in the Windows space as being a "bad title". Poor marketing, I think you will find, was one of the main causes of Sacred tanking...and it did well enough that they're making a sequel...think about that one...) and seem like they may be fun- even if they're "old" or "tanked", that the current publishing crowd can actually get deals on, and help them break even or better so we can have decent sales figures to improve the situation in our favor.

3) Change the rules with something Open Sourced like Nexuiz so that the issue is a moot point.

Bitching about this in the forums like you have doing and in the faces of the people trying to make a difference and in the faces of the studios you're needing to convince WILL NOT FIX THE PROBLEM. It will only make it worse.

You want games, gang? You're going to have to do something other than this crap you are all doing right now. Honest.

[content edited to blunt the remarks a bit... It came over upon a second reading a being too harsh even for what I'm trying to convey here...]

[deanjo]

1) Cough up about 10 million per year for about the next 3-4 years (I am dead serious about this...) to subsidize about 5-10 titles per year in the genres that you all keep basically whining about so they can be made and someone can take a small to medium loss on the whole deal; just so we can have sales figures to start shifting the situation more in the Linux community's favor.

I buy a lottery ticket every week with this in mind. :D

[Svartalf]

I buy a lottery ticket every week with this in mind. :D

Same here, actually. I'd consider it an investment in the future- because I DO agree with you that this isn't working as well as anyone had hoped and that the way you're talking to is going to have better results in the long-term, even if they're somewhat pricey in the short term.

Unless Steam/Source pans out well (I think it will for everyone...but you just don't know...) or the Pandora does as well or better than the community over at OpenPandora is hoping for, we're stuck with the other way- the way things currently are.

Griping about it and not coming up with either option 1 or 3 that I mention isn't going to be helpful in the slightest and is contributing to the problem in the whole.

[deanjo]

Same here, actually. I'd consider it an investment in the future- because I DO agree with you that this isn't working as well as anyone had hoped and that the way you're talking to is going to have better results in the long-term, even if they're somewhat pricey in the short term.

Unless Steam/Source pans out well (I think it will for everyone...but you just don't know...) or the Pandora does as well or better than the community over at OpenPandora is hoping for, we're stuck with the other way- the way things currently are.

Griping about it and not coming up with either option 1 or 3 that I mention isn't going to be helpful in the slightest and is contributing to the problem in the whole.

Meh, maybe just get LPG on Nasdaq :D

[Svartalf]

Meh, maybe just get LPG on Nasdaq :D

Riight... You want us to be effed up like the rest of the publicly traded companies out there. Niice... ;) :D

[Licaon]

They're not bad game choices- they're only bad in YOUR opinion.that's what i said :)


Moreover, you're lucky that WINE even runs it.

WINE's a band-aid, not an answer, no matter what you say. i did not say it's an answer, but until ( if ever ) the Linux binary appears it the only way ( no matter what i or you think it's better )


You.
Are.
Part.
Of.
The.
Problem.

Each title you buy under WINDOWS, I don't care what you run it under, is a vote to continue to have vendors make only titles for Windows. so i should only play NWN/Nethack/ADOM/and other that have Linux binaries, forever?? ( imho those are fine games, but one wants more/diferent after a while )


If you don't want to play Sacred, fine, voice your opinion as such and go on (which I'm supposing you're doing...)- but do NOT keep whining about there NOT being any Linux titles. where did i whine? please quote the part of me whining


The studios and publishers do NOT care how many users there are out there for a given OS- they only care about what is currently selling. When you buy a Windows title, that's what got sold- no more, no less. but by not buying the game what guarantees do game devs/publishers have that a Linux port is even viable??? ( viable means that enough copies are sold so that the porting costs are atleast covered )


When you buy the Witcher, you're sending Atari the message that it's "okay" to keep making Windows versions and that it was "okay" for them to pull the plug (Which is what happened there...) on the planned Linux version of the same. Personally, I don't care how GOOD the title is- if they're going to do things like that I don't want to play it at all. You shouldn't either because you're encouraging them to snub you in this manner. Honest.i agree
look what i did:
-i signed the petition back when the Linux port ( that wasn't even officialy announced anyway, it was only presumed because of the Aurora engine used ) was "dropped";
-i bought the game,
-i played the game in Linux+WINE,
-i did what i could using the official forum to, atleast, get the attention of users/mods/devs about the Linux issue [ The Witcher on Linux: info (http://www.thewitcher.com/forum/index.php?topic=3420.msg232975#msg232975), more info (http://www.thewitcher.com/forum/index.php?topic=3420.msg241464#msg241464), city vid (http://www.thewitcher.com/forum/index.php?topic=3420.msg235357#msg235357), combat vid (http://www.thewitcher.com/forum/index.php?topic=3420.msg235446#msg235446) ] ( Licaon_Kter is my nick there BTW)
what did you do about this or any other game that you wanted to play under your OS of choice?


Without numbers, they'll just keep doing this stuff. It continues to amaze me that people will just keep doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result each and every time they do it- and I'm NOT referring to the studios here.talking about numbers, in what statistic does the "voting with your wallet" ( by not buying the game until it has a Linux version) appears? who counts the lost sales here? who roams the Linux forums to read about sad linux users that would buy the game if a linux binary is available?


And if you think these are bad decisions, it's not because they're bad, it's because these are the only titles where the studios will give LGP, Runesoft, etc. the time of day and ask for doable royalty structures. i respect what LGP does, and i wish to repay their work with $/euros; but i'll do that when a game that i like will be ported, sorry :(


Bitching about this in the forums like you have doing and in the faces of the people trying to make a difference and in the faces of the studios you're needing to convince WILL NOT FIX THE PROBLEM. It will only make it worse.this also aplies to you too, remember :)

anyway do remember that we are both on the same side of the fence by posting here, try to redirect your argument against those how have the power to do something and do not know all these, i know about all these issues, i've posted all these issues on several gaming forums hoping that someone somewhere hears/reads my concerns and acts upon them

mmmkay? :)

[niniendowarrior]

I think Svartalf is responding in a general direction, not to a single response and I have the same sentiments. People whine here about it and in my opinion, that does no good at all. I also think that we do not know the big picture of what goes on behind the scenes. Sacred could be the first of many more titles being ported into Linux from that development studio. Instead of seeing it as an opportunity, people berate LGP for even bothering to get it. Let's not be so harsh on them.

I see Svartalf's point on not being interested in Windows games as similar as if I own a PS3 and a Xbox 360 exclusive comes along the way, I don't care what it is. I'm not buying an Xbox 360 for it. You have the money to burn, go ahead.

I do suppose, at the end of the day, it's your money and your say. Do what you will with it, but the industry numbers going back to the big publishers do not change as long as everyone attempts to buy a Windows copy and tries to run it on Linux. It runs on Wine, enjoy it on Wine if you want. But when all is said and done, it's still a Windows tally going back. I was *this* close to succumbing to Witcher for Windows because I like what I see thus far. Knowing they shafted the Linux version leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[Aradreth]

what did you do about this or any other game that you wanted to play under your OS of choice?
He has helped port titles to linux? >.>

I think Svartalf is responding in a general direction, not to a single response and I have the same sentiments. People whine here about it and in my opinion, that does no good at all. I also think that we do not know the big picture of what goes on behind the scenes. Sacred could be the first of many more titles being ported into Linux from that development studio. Instead of seeing it as an opportunity, people berate LGP for even bothering to get it. Let's not be so harsh on them.
I assumed that LGP were porting Sacred to build up Ascaron's confidences to let them touch more popular titles because from what I've seen porting companies tend to start small with each developer then work their way up to better titles as they prove that it's profitable.

[Licaon]

Sacred could be the first of many more titles being ported into Linux from that development studio. Instead of seeing it as an opportunity, people berate LGP for even bothering to get it. Let's not be so harsh on them.that's a fair view, but that won't make Sacred or Sacred 2/3/4/etc a good/better game at least not in my view :(

Do what you will with it, but the industry numbers going back to the big publishers do not change as long as everyone attempts to buy a Windows copy and tries to run it on Linux. so what can we do? how can we make them "feel" that they lost a sale? (cause whining here posting more of these won't change nothing :D)

It runs on Wine, enjoy it on Wine if you want. But when all is said and done, it's still a Windows tally going back. I was *this* close to succumbing to Witcher for Windows because I like what I see thus far. Knowing they shafted the Linux version leaves a bad taste in my mouth.yes, and is this better that playing it bad in WINE? How else if not buying the game can we make the publishers/devs understand that THERE IS a market in Linux gaming?

this was what i did, i bought the game, registered to their forum (where you can register your game and have a GAME OWNER tag, like on the BioWare forum AFAIK), and started posting about running it on Linux and stuff; it's not much but i feel it's better than some petition on some site, IMHO

having 10-20 users, registered on their forum, barring GAME OWNER tags, saying that it runs bad in WINE and a native version would be needed, would make a bigger impact, IMHO, than 1000 users that just signed that petition; 1000 promised sales equal 0$ for any dev

He has helped port titles to Linux? >.>Great then!!! :) hooray for him... which titles?

I assumed that LGP were porting Sacred to build up Ascaron's confidences to let them touch more popular titles because from what I've seen porting companies tend to start small with each developer then work their way up to better titles as they prove that it's profitable.ok i do understand, but game that won't sell that good because of their gameplay will not help get better titles, but create more problems regarding profitability

this is the chicken and egg issue: devs will port better titles if these not-so-better titles sell; users won't buy not-so-better titles; devs can't port better games so they go and port more not-so-better titles and hope that will port better titles if these not-so-better titles sell...and so on and so forth...

this makes me truly sad

the thing that leaves a bad taste in _my_ mouth is summarized in the second line af my first post: too bad that the good intentions of linuxgamepublishing meet these bad game choices

[Aradreth]

Great then!!! :) hooray for him... which titles?
I believe Svartalf helps out at LGP once in a while (or full time? I'm not quite sure) and sometimes gets in contact with developers to see if they will let there title be ported for a reasonable sum.

Edit: it's not full time, look at post 21 in this very thread. (knew I had seen it somewhere)

[niniendowarrior]

that's a fair view, but that won't make Sacred or Sacred 2/3/4/etc a good/better game at least not in my view :(

Nobody is saying you should say it's a great game. You views on it, is yours.


so what can we do? how can we make them "feel" that they lost a sale? (cause whining here posting more of these won't change nothing :D)

In my opinion, this isn't very straightforward to answer, otherwise it would have been solved already. Svartalf's policy is that if there's no Linux version, he doesn't buy it, and I can see how that helps. I just think the after-effects are not felt.


yes, and is this better that playing it bad in WINE? How else if not buying the game can we make the publishers/devs understand that THERE IS a market in Linux gaming?

this was what i did, i bought the game, registered to their forum (where you can register your game and have a GAME OWNER tag, like on the BioWare forum AFAIK), and started posting about running it on Linux and stuff; it's not much but i feel it's better than some petition on some site, IMHO

having 10-20 users, registered on their forum, barring GAME OWNER tags, saying that it runs bad in WINE and a native version would be needed, would make a bigger impact, IMHO, than 1000 users that just signed that petition; 1000 promised sales equal 0$ for any dev

The huuuuge thread in the Bioware forum on Dragon Age for Linux is a good read. Developers can port on Linux. They can if they wanted to. They cannot because the publishers don't want them to. I saw a lot of your Linux-related posts on the Witcher forum and I admire the effort you put into it. But, as far as letting them know there's a Linux market to cater, you are barking up on the wrong tree. It again, boils down to the publisher seeing it. The long petition thread on Atari on NWN 2 only got a Mac port, but it took them that long to even think about a Mac port.


Great then!!! :) hooray for him... which titles?

You'd have to ask him, but I know his latest one on the plate is Bandits Phoronix Rising (Sorry, Michael, I just had to pull that one out again. :D)


ok i do understand, but game that won't sell that good because of their gameplay will not help get better titles, but create more problems regarding profitability

this is the chicken and egg issue: devs will port better titles if these not-so-better titles sell; users won't buy not-so-better titles; devs can't port better games so they go and port more not-so-better titles and hope that will port better titles if these not-so-better titles sell...and so on and so forth...

this makes me truly sad

the thing that leaves a bad taste in _my_ mouth is summarized in the second line af my first post:

Welcome to the club. If the problem was easy to solve, it would have been done already.

[deanjo]

The huuuuge thread in the Bioware forum on Dragon Age for Linux is a good read. Developers can port on Linux. They can if they wanted to. They cannot because the publishers don't want them to.

Gotta link? The only thing I found there was Scott Meadows reply "We have not announced anything about system requirements yet. Stay Tuned." on the 27th of last month, when asked about a linux client. Of course, as usual, I'm not holding my breath.

[niniendowarrior]

Gotta link? The only thing I found there was Scott Meadows reply "We have not announced anything about system requirements yet. Stay Tuned." on the 27th of last month, when asked about a linux client. Of course, as usual, I'm not holding my breath.

Not readily. There's been like a good number of closed threads on that one on the Bioware forum due to excessive length. :D

Officially, that's Bioware's response. I think inside those Linux threads on Dragon Age, they say they aren't Anti-Linux. It's just not their call. Svartalf knows about it, I'd think... he was also there in the battles.

I don't have time to go grave digging on the Bioware forums though, my apologies. So I don't have a link to show you.

[Aradreth]

Not readily. There's been like a good number of closed threads on that one on the Bioware forum due to excessive length. :D

Officially, that's Bioware's response. I think inside those Linux threads on Dragon Age, they say they aren't Anti-Linux. It's just not their call. Svartalf knows about it, I'd think... he was also there in the battles.

I don't have time to go grave digging on the Bioware forums though, my apologies. So I don't have a link to show you.
I think these (http://forums.bioware.com/viewtopic.html?topic=351500&forum=84)are (http://forums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=494004&forum=84&sp=0)the (http://forums.bioware.com/viewtopic.html?topic=527573&forum=84)threads (http://forums.bioware.com/viewtopic.html?topic=567180&forum=84) you mean.

[niniendowarrior]

Yup. That looks to be the threads. I'll try to find the posts that talk about that.

*Side comment*
Pardon me Aradeth, but everytime I see your name, I always see it as Aribeth. *still recovering from Aribeth's betrayal*

EDIT:
After plowing through 20+ pages of Svartalf vs Stanley Woo, I am starting to think, what I read was a NWN2 Linux request topic by a mod. After all, they did say not to post on their forums about it and to do it at Atari. :D Sorry for the misinformation, but it's still quite a good read. ;)

[Licaon]

@Michael: since Phoronix and LGP are so close, wouldn't a poll be useful to them? like the one Novell did a few years ago about "the most wanted Windows application missing in Linux" about AutoCAD/PhoteShop and etc BUT the poll will be about games, about what games do we (linux game buyers and players) want to be ported

[Aradreth]

@Michael: since Phoronix and LGP are so close, wouldn't a poll be useful to them? like the one Novell did a few years ago about "the most wanted Windows application missing in Linux" about AutoCAD/PhoteShop and etc BUT the poll will be about games, about what games do we (linux game buyers and players) want to be ported
That would be pretty pointless seeing as LGP can only port a game if the windows publisher/the developers don't want an idiotic sum of money up front or are even willing to talk. The games I guess you want on that list are probably AAA titles which at this point in time have no hope in hell of being ported by LGP.

Pardon me Aradeth, but everytime I see your name, I always see it as Aribeth. *still recovering from Aribeth's betrayal* Pfff worth it just to make her a blackguard when you run into her in hell later :D

[Svartalf]

@Michael: since Phoronix and LGP are so close, wouldn't a poll be useful to them? like the one Novell did a few years ago about "the most wanted Windows application missing in Linux" about AutoCAD/PhoteShop and etc BUT the poll will be about games, about what games do we (linux game buyers and players) want to be ported

You're still thinking that they're going to listen to those numbers.

Polls mean NOTHING.
Petitions mean NOTHING.

You can do them to make you feel better that you tried to make your desires clearer to them. But, in the end, you are NOT a customer to them right at the moment unless you're buying a Windows title- unless of course they make a title for whatever non-Windows platform that you can buy from them. Unless they see that there really IS a buyer's market for Linux, they're just not going to go and make things as long as Windows is so damn profitable- even if it's dead nasty to code for and support overall.

As for what I've done... I've helped kick-start 3D support (along with the likes of Gareth Hughes and John Carmack...) on Linux. I've done PPC code for Soul Ride, x86 code for Ballistics, and trying to put the wraps on the last couple of bugs in Bandits but real life keeps intruding. Also worth noting, I'm trying to actually do MORE for Linux in the form of trying to lever the Pandora handheld up with some firmware for it and some initial titles.

You see, I take this VERY seriously. I have for years now.

And I DO happen to have an insider's view of things to at least some extent. I'm not kidding- if you're buying a Windows title, that's what you're buying. If that's what you want to do, more power to you- but in the same vein, you're not helping things any on the Linux games front when you do this.



Let me share with you all a moment in Linux history...

December 1999. It was going to be Linux' shining moment. The coming of age party for all of the efforts up to this point. Part of WHAT I'd signed up for working with the Utah-GLX stuff.

Quake III: Arena was about to come out. Simultaneously. For ALL platforms. Including Linux. To be sold STOREFRONT for Linux in many locations, much like Civilization:Call To Power had been.

Because of the business screwups of one Scott Draeker, though, that was BOTCHED.

Two stupid things the man did.

He placed a 50k unit order for replication. This means he owed Id over a quarter of a million out of the gate past what he'd wrangled to get the Linux publishing deal. In and of itself, had he NOT fubared the deal with the second stupid thing, he'd have at least broke even on it and we'd not be in the mess we're in right now.

The second stupid thing he did... He placed a 50k unit order for the same custom tins that pre-orders for the Windows version were getting for the game. That got held up in Customs for about 6-8 weeks, delaying the availability of the Linux version for about the same amount of time.

The delivery date came: NO Linux SKUs in the stores.

What did Linux users worldwide do? Rather than wait for the damn thing, they went and bought the Windows version and "patched" it with the conversion binaries Id thoughtfully provided for the people that wanted to switch OSes for their purchase. The official Linux SKU sold some 200-400 units worldwide, officially. I happen to have one of those boxes, FYI.

Because people couldn't wait, they all sent a damn message that we won't buy games. There's no market for Linux titles. Something we've been fighting ever since.


When I tell you that the mentality you espouse is the problem, I'm not kidding. It's what caused the mess we're now in. Blaming the publishers that're fighting this uphill battle isn't going to help. Telling me that I'm part of the problem is not really the case.

[edit]

As for getting them to figure this out... Heh... Dwindling sales figures for Windows will be enough for them to look at the actual stats for Linux usage and give it a go again. Either that or if you've got 25-50 Million in your pocket burning a hole in it to be an investment in the long-term big picture... Now, that's the current picture. Valve coming to the party MIGHT just shift things more in our favor. Greenhouse and Hothead (if you like Penny Arcade- BUY the silly thing, it's cool...) coming to the party will help as well.

But you've got to BUY a Linux SKU in some way to make those count.

[Kano]

Usually you buy the game, not game for Win or a game for Linux. I think it is a very good idea when the data files are shared between those - also a former Linux user could play the game then with the other OS. I would not buy a Linux only game, I prefer plattform neutral games. Mainly for OS X you have to buy the game again because you can not get a binary alone - please don't use that as example for Linux games. Online games can report the OS to the server to show the real usage number. As games with unique serial number (with whitelist only on the server) are quite common there is no need for media protection - which is hard to do with Linux and often useless/problematic on Win too. So if possible I would give Linux patches away for free and do not try to sell the same game again.

[Svartalf]

I believe Svartalf helps out at LGP once in a while (or full time? I'm not quite sure) and sometimes gets in contact with developers to see if they will let there title be ported for a reasonable sum.


You'd be right in regards to my role in things Linux Gaming. :D

While I would LIKE to be in Ryan's position, that's not practical right at the moment. ;) So I do embedded systems software for Tektronix right at the moment, using Linux as the base OS for my day job.

[Svartalf]

Usually you buy the game, not game for Win or a game for Linux. I think it is a very good idea when the data files are shared between those - also a former Linux user could play the game then with the other OS. I would not buy a Linux only game, I prefer plattform neutral games. Mainly for OS X you have to buy the game again because you can not get a binary alone - please don't use that as example for Linux games. Online games can report the OS to the server to show the real usage number. As games with unique serial number (with whitelist only on the server) are quite common there is no need for media protection - which is hard to do with Linux and often useless/problematic on Win too. So if possible I would give Linux patches away for free and do not try to sell the same game again.

The only problem with that thinking, Kano, is that the business people don't see it the same way. When you buy a title for a given platform, you're buying it for that platform. You don't get a Windows version and then expect to get the MacOS version- or a PS3 version. Each one is a differing SKU and you don't typically get to move data across- unless you're someone like Id. :D


[edit]

If you could help me make 'em SEE it the way you see it (I would love to have it that way- it's the way it SHOULD be...) this would be awesome.

[Licaon]

@Svartalf: i do agree on your points, 10x for sharing that info with us

unfortunately the not buying the games strategy still has no real results as far as i can see, buying the Windows version counts as a Windows title, not buying the game doesn't count as anything :(

(if you form some Linux gaming front, do PM me to join it, BTW :D)

the poll seams to be misunderstood, the poll should only be a reference for LGP, to show them what users want ( they do have such data anyway i bet, since they're doing a RPG now ); and based on Phoronix's popularity the poll should touch some sites beyond LGP and Phoronix itself

i wish i had better ideas, but boy I'm having less and less time to play, and such non-multi-platform nonsense makes me even sadder :(

[Svartalf]

@Svartalf: i do agree on your points, 10x for sharing that info with us


You're welcome. I just wish I had better things to tell people


unfortunately the not buying the games strategy still has no real results as far as i can see, buying the Windows version counts as a Windows title, not buying the game doesn't count as anything :(


Actually it does count as something. One less Windows sale. If you think the Penny Arcade Adventures title is cool- BUY IT. If Valve DOES get Orange Box out for Linux, I will be one of the ones at the head of the line to get it. One less Windows sale and one more Linux sale for things ends up, at the end of the day, giving them numbers. But you HAVE to buy some Linux titles for it to work.


i wish i had better ideas, but boy I'm having less and less time to play, and such non-multi-platform nonsense makes me even sadder :(

Just think what it makes me... sigh...

[Svartalf]

I assumed that LGP were porting Sacred to build up Ascaron's confidences to let them touch more popular titles because from what I've seen porting companies tend to start small with each developer then work their way up to better titles as they prove that it's profitable.

Oh, by the by... You're assuming correct. Keep this solidly in mind, folks, when you make your decisions here...

[niniendowarrior]

the poll seams to be misunderstood, the poll should only be a reference for LGP, to show them what users want ( they do have such data anyway i bet, since they're doing a RPG now ); and based on Phoronix's popularity the poll should touch some sites beyond LGP and Phoronix itself


I don't see much of a poll doing any impact. LGP cannot simply walk up to a publisher and strike a deal. It's something they work to build up. Ascaron's Sacred, I think, is potentially the first of many more titles to come. The more Linux titles, the better. I may not be crazy about some of the titles LGP puts out, but I'm happy they ported them. More titles for Linux gamers mean more purchasing options and if the title is really good, all the better.

Somehow, I have built up the image that Linux gamers are fickle-minded, and Linux porting houses have a real thankless job of digging very hard to get a title only to have themselves stabbed at the back by the very people they are trying to cater to.

[Svartalf]

LGP cannot simply walk up to a publisher and strike a deal. It's something they work to build up.

Keep repeating that, folks. LGP, Runesoft, etc. can't just get just any old title. You're at the mercy of the studio and in most cases their primary publisher for getting a port. There's a reason why we don't have an official NWN (Yes, NWN...we won't even get into the sequel here...). There's a reason why we don't have the Witcher in any form whatsoever. It's the same thing I keep stating over and over; and a portion of why this is was described earlier in the thread.


Ascaron's Sacred, I think, is potentially the first of many more titles to come.


There IS a reason I keep on like this in the forums...


Somehow, I have built up the image that Linux gamers are fickle-minded, and Linux porting houses have a real thankless job of digging very hard to get a title only to have themselves stabbed at the back by the very people they are trying to cater to.

Sadly, your image may be closer to the truth than you think. I know I feel that way from time to time. I'm pretty sure Ryan does as well. And I know that the GP2X crowd IS that way- and the devs there feel that way from time to time.

[niniendowarrior]

Yeah. It's something that I learn from flocking forums. I don't like the attitude people exhibit, but it seems it cannot be helped, really.

I hope people can have a more open mind about this. Maybe things will change, but haven't we kept harping about change year after year?

[Aradreth]

Yeah. It's something that I learn from flocking forums. I don't like the attitude people exhibit, but it seems it cannot be helped, really.

I hope people can have a more open mind about this. Maybe things will change, but haven't we kept harping about change year after year?
I'm sure plenty of people appreciate the job LGP and Runesoft are doing (I know I do) but the thing is the people enjoying the games don't see a reason to post on forums so you end up with just people whining.

GP2X Didn't know about this one looks quite nice... I might have to see if it's worth getting this or the Pandora...

[Licaon]

I'm sure plenty of people appreciate the job LGP and Runesoft are doing (I know I do) but the thing is the people enjoying the games don't see a reason to post on forums so you end up with just people whining.the thing is that nothing is absolute

you can't discuss things only in black and white, saying "you either like the game ported or f*ck off you whiny(sp?) unappreciative bia*ch" will not help anyone :(

I am posting here because I CARE about Linux games, I want them plenty and varied

but, what should one do if one wants to help and thank LGP for their efforts, but doesn't enjoy those games that have been ported?

should i email them with "pls port DaWitcher, k? 10x!" ? :D

i, for one, hoped that given, afaik, the close relation between Phoronix and LGP, this forum could act as a feedback system for LGP, and thats exactly what i've given

as any other game on any platform, the games ported by LGP will go through the same logic: info, review, demo tested, decision of buying or not

unfortunately the Sacred demo tested by me in 2005 did not attract me beyond a Diablo(2) clone + horses + big/open map :(

[Svartalf]

Didn't know about this one looks quite nice... I might have to see if it's worth getting this or the Pandora...

Hang loose. The Pandora's a quantum leap in gaming handhelds. The current crop of them don't do things like shader programmable 3D- the Pandora DOES. :D

[Svartalf]

unfortunately the Sacred demo tested by me in 2005 did not attract me beyond a Diablo(2) clone + horses + big/open map :(

Then that should have been ALL you said, my friend.

The rest of your commentary was gratuitous past that statement right there and contributes nothing to the conversation.

This isn't a "take it and like it" remark that I've been making all throughout this thread with you.

If you don't want it- fine. No problem. It's not your cup of tea- and I can understand that.

I happen to LIKE Diablo 2 style stuff as well as the NWN/Witcher stuff- so I don't have the same issue with it that you claim to.

Ragging on it as having "tanked" as your rationale (which is what you ran up the flagpole initially...), however, is more than over the top and misses the whole point (as you seem to keep missing, sir...) of what I've been trying to tell you.

Saying "Why don't you do stuff like Witcher?" and then ignoring what I've been telling you isn't winning you any points. I hate to disillusion you and everyone that's not on the same page right at the moment...unless it's a Windows SKU or has a means to run it with some semblance of NATIVE Linux binaries, you are NOT their customer. Get the notion that you're their customer out of your head- unless you run the title under Windows, you're nothing of the sort.

You've been told what's going on and why- and you keep repeating the same thing over and over again. And, unfortunately, even though several people have told you how things work, you keep trying the same thing- the industry DOES NOT WORK THE WAY YOU THINK IT DOES.

Trust me, many people in the Linux publishing space have discussed trying to get titles of the nature you're wanting in hand.

In pretty much every case, the proposal's shot down by the current Windows publisher who's got all the rights in question. In many cases, it's not the studio that has a say-so. In many cases, the studio actually WANTED to make a Linux version and got told to NOT do it or else by the publisher. Telling me, Ryan, LGP, and others what you want is all well and good0 it's decent feedback to let all of the people trying to make a difference know they're barking up the right tree or not.

Expecting that to change things in the slightest isn't realistic- and I've been telling you over and over again WHY.

[edit]

Suggesting wanted titles isn't going to change things.
Buying what's available when you like what you see will.
Buying Windows titles won't.
Pestering studios and publishers for Linux titles won't either.
Bashing what's available when you don't like it won't either.

Valve bringing Steam and Source MIGHT change things some or a lot. It depends on how well received it all is.

[niniendowarrior]

I'm sure plenty of people appreciate the job LGP and Runesoft are doing (I know I do) but the thing is the people enjoying the games don't see a reason to post on forums so you end up with just people whining.

Didn't know about this one looks quite nice... I might have to see if it's worth getting this or the Pandora...

I hope you're right there. And I appreciate the stuff they do too. I used to have a mindset of that these people keep porting irrelevant things, but what they do really helps and gradually improves the situation with every title released. I hope to see more from them.

GP2X is the nice pirates handheld machine. :D I've read quite a bit of it and it's quite lovely. I just don't have money to burn on that one. Never heard of Pandora, but I've been living inside a cave for at least a year. *chuckles*

[Svartalf]

GP2X is the nice pirates handheld machine. :D I've read quite a bit of it and it's quite lovely. I just don't have money to burn on that one. Never heard of Pandora, but I've been living inside a cave for at least a year. *chuckles*

Heh... It's the "next-gen" of the GP2x- and may be the first entrant in the wave of "Fifth Generation" handhelds.

Specs:

ARM Cortex-A8 Superscalar CPU
TI IVA 2+
Imagination Technologies PowerVR SGX 530
128Mb DRAM
2 SDHC card slots
WiFi
WVGA (800x480) Touch Screen
Dual analog control nubs
Digital control pad and buttons.
Keyboard
OS will be an embedded Linux distro

System's a clamshell. First and foremost, it's a UMPC class PDA type device with tuning and intent leaning strongly towards gaming and games. TI holds them up as one of the main initial customers (along with the Beagle Board community project that the TI people kick-started...) for the OMAP 3430/3440 SOCs- and they have had dev boards that even many TI'ers don't have access to playing around with the initial BSP work.

Right now, I'm waiting to get my MK0 dev unit to start my work on things. :D

[niniendowarrior]

the thing is that nothing is absolute

you can't discuss things only in black and white, saying "you either like the game ported or f*ck off you whiny(sp?) unappreciative bia*ch" will not help anyone :(

I am posting here because I CARE about Linux games, I want them plenty and varied


Geez. Nobody told you to like the game being ported. If it's not your cup of tea, everyone can respect that. AND, my remark don't narrow it down on you but it's more of a general assessment of the boards. Bickerings on the "Why port an X year old game?" is quite abundant through the search function. You don't like the game, don't buy it. No love lost. But when a user attacks LGP, that's a different line that they cross and that's the part I really loath.


but, what should one do if one wants to help and thank LGP for their efforts, but doesn't enjoy those games that have been ported?

should i email them with "pls port DaWitcher, k? 10x!" ? :D

i, for one, hoped that given, afaik, the close relation between Phoronix and LGP, this forum could act as a feedback system for LGP, and thats exactly what i've given

as any other game on any platform, the games ported by LGP will go through the same logic: info, review, demo tested, decision of buying or not

unfortunately the Sacred demo tested by me in 2005 did not attract me beyond a Diablo(2) clone + horses + big/open map :(

Feedback system isn't the way it works because there is no way LGP can say "Okay, Witcher got 90% of the vote so we walk up to Atari (and to a lesser extent, CD Projekt) and ask them to cut us a deal." That isn't how it works. And on Ascaron, who knows how long LGP held talks to them just to get them to finally crack and talk about porting some of their titles on Linux?

I guess the sad pill in this whole ordeal is, you don't like the games they port and they don't have much of a choice anyway. These titles being ported are *always* going to be at the whim of the publisher who owns the rights.

[niniendowarrior]

Heh... It's the "next-gen" of the GP2x- and may be the first entrant in the wave of "Fifth Generation" handhelds.

Specs:

ARM Cortex-A8 Superscalar CPU
TI IVA 2+
Imagination Technologies PowerVR SGX 530
128Mb DRAM
2 SDHC card slots
WiFi
WVGA (800x480) Touch Screen
Dual analog control nubs
Digital control pad and buttons.
Keyboard
OS will be an embedded Linux distro

System's a clamshell. First and foremost, it's a UMPC class PDA type device with tuning and intent leaning strongly towards gaming and games. TI holds them up as one of the main initial customers (along with the Beagle Board community project that the TI people kick-started...) for the OMAP 3430/3440 SOCs- and they have had dev boards that even many TI'ers don't have access to playing around with the initial BSP work.

Right now, I'm waiting to get my MK0 dev unit to start my work on things. :D

My, my. That's one fine piece of machinery there. Say, are you porting for that platform too? I'm just intrigued at how different the toolchain is going to be.

[Svartalf]

And on Ascaron, who knows how long LGP held talks to them just to get them to finally crack and talk about porting some of their titles on Linux?

At least 6+ months of it, from what I have been led to believe. Same goes with most of the other things. There's titles that've been ported, even, that may never see the light of day because the publisher nixed going forward with it at the 11th hour of things for whatever reason. I know of at least one title that I've a demo for that's really a hot n' cool one that was waiting for the final goahead a YEAR running now. Probably not going to be happening at this point, even though it's liable to be done already, knowing whom did the work.

I guess the sad pill in this whole ordeal is, you don't like the games they port and they don't have much of a choice anyway. These titles being ported are *always* going to be at the whim of the publisher who owns the rights.

Indeed. That's pretty dead-on with what the situation is, even down to the sad situation we find all of ourselves in here.

[Svartalf]

My, my. That's one fine piece of machinery there. Say, are you porting for that platform too? I'm just intrigued at how different the toolchain is going to be.

ARM, which doesn't have hardware FP and a few other gotchas like that.
It's mostly going to be like doing Maemo or GP2x coding, but that it's got OpenGL ES 2.0 ability in it.

Right now, it's more of a pet project for moi- nothing official; but I do plan on helping provide a few FOSS projects being moved over to it for rollout or close to it.

[niniendowarrior]

At least 6+ months of it, from what I have been led to believe. Same goes with most of the other things. There's titles that've been ported, even, that may never see the light of day because the publisher nixed going forward with it at the 11th hour of things for whatever reason. I know of at least one title that I've a demo for that's really a hot n' cool one that was waiting for the final goahead a YEAR running now. Probably not going to be happening at this point, even though it's liable to be done already, knowing whom did the work.


Not surprised. Not surprised at all. There's also that other game was supposed to have a Linux client but is somehow stuck in some sort of legal mud. *chuckles* :D

It's certainly ain't a pretty sight, but unless publishers see a market, we are just going to go down the same road each and every time.

[Svartalf]

Not surprised. Not surprised at all. There's also that other game was supposed to have a Linux client but is somehow stuck in some sort of legal mud. *chuckles* :D

Heh... Ain't that a sore subject with quite a few people... >:-D :D

[Aradreth]

I know of at least one title that I've a demo for that's really a hot n' cool one that was waiting for the final goahead a YEAR running now. Probably not going to be happening at this point, even though it's liable to be done already, knowing whom did the work.
That really sucks.

Specs:

ARM Cortex-A8 Superscalar CPU
TI IVA 2+
Imagination Technologies PowerVR SGX 530
128Mb DRAM
2 SDHC card slots
WiFi
WVGA (800x480) Touch Screen
Dual analog control nubs
Digital control pad and buttons.
Keyboard
OS will be an embedded Linux distro
If it has good audio play back I'm sold. :D Although I suppose you could get USB sound card... Battery life might be a problem though. *urge to tinker rising*

[Aradreth]

you can't discuss things only in black and white, saying "you either like the game ported or f*ck off you whiny(sp?) unappreciative bia*ch" will not help anyone
Whilst I agree that you have to see the problem from all angles, people just bitching about the games being ported as they suck or are to old isn't helping anyone as LGP doesn't have much choice in what games they get to port. I mean just reading through this thread you'll find a lot of the posts about Sarced are negative due to it being old/"crap"/cost more then the windows version and that helps no one. Fact is LGP can't afford to reduce the price or buy newer games with out taking a huge risk that might not pay off. As for it being crap I'll buy it because I'll probably enjoy playing it and I'm sure I wont be the only one. I use to love D2 and I don't have a problem playing games with dated graphics. To be honest I've tried some of the newer games on other peoples PCs/PS3s/360s and they aren't all that much fun. Graphics are amazing but game play is lacking. Gameplay >> graphics hence why the Wii is blowing the competition away.
Anyway what LGP needs is constructive criticism don't just say it's crap, offer a feasible solution for the problem.

but, what should one do if one wants to help and thank LGP for their efforts, but doesn't enjoy those games that have been ported?
If you really want to help linux gaming in general contribute to Mojosetup or another project that makes bringing games to linux easier with code/translations/testing heck even just donating some money to help cover the server costs.

[Licaon]

If you really want to help linux gaming in general contribute to Mojosetup or another project that makes bringing games to linux easier with code/translations/testing heck even just donating some money to help cover the server costs.i did the romanian translation actually

I happen to LIKE Diablo 2 style stuff as well as the NWN/Witcher stuff- so I don't have the same issue with it that you claim to.i like Diablo, what i did say was that it fells kind of dull just to make a game ( there are hundreds actually ) based on this known good "recipe"

the "tanked" rationale was badly used by me, sorry :D

as i still don't see any game dev/publisher saying "we did not sell that many copies because the Linux gamers did not buy our game", repeating "Buying Windows titles won't help." ad nauseam as the only true answer to any question does not help anyone, and i feel attacked every time it is used as a response to my ideas about what can be done to get the dev/publishers to care about all their customers needs

my original post was full of unintended rage, as much as i respect what LGP's accomplised ( i have repeated this in my posts ) i know that in the end the copies sold for Linux are the ones that count, having a game that might not sell that good will hamper the future works of LGP

as for Sacred, i sure do hope the Sacred 1 port will open doors to Sacred 2, i'll try the demo anyway, i hope the Aug 2008 timeframe can be respected

[Svartalf]

That really sucks.

You've no idea how much it hurts to have said that one... :(


If it has good audio play back I'm sold. :D Although I suppose you could get USB sound card... Battery life might be a problem though. *urge to tinker rising*

Playback won't be an issue, I suspect. The only sticking point will be what the manufacturer (The guy responsible for the UK retail front for GamePark on the GP32/GP2X line...) does with it. Since it's intended by gamers for gamers, I suspect he's not going to be willing to shave too many pennies off his BOM on this one... ;)

[Svartalf]

i did the romanian translation actually

i like Diablo, what i did say was that it fells kind of dull just to make a game ( there are hundreds actually ) based on this known good "recipe"


Perhaps there's hundreds of actual commercial quality Diablo-likes on Windows. Right now, there's not a single one on Linux. None. The closest has been Siege of Avalon, which still hasn't seen the light of day yet.

Keep that in mind when you think about these things. Try the demo and see if it tickles your fancy. If not, no harm done. But...spare everyone the rage and all. It does NOBODY any good. Yourself and the publishers included.


the "tanked" rationale was badly used by me, sorry :D


No problem- apology accepted.

All I ask is that people choose their words more wisely when they go and comment on things.

Having "tanked" on Windows isn't at all a good or reliable metric for determining if a game is worth messing with. Nor is "this is a Diablo 2 clone with horses, etc.", really. Until you see the "cloned" game on Linux, it's not really a good metric, now is it?

Your words speak of someone of the same thinking that caused the debacle with Quake3 for Linux. You don't realize it. Most people don't when they do this.

When you comment on things "working fine on WINE", you're doing the same thing. Honest.

In the end, though, it causes the same set of problems and frictions- just as it did in 1999 for us.


as i still don't see any game dev/publisher saying "we did not sell that many copies because the Linux gamers did not buy our game", repeating "Buying Windows titles won't help." ad nauseam as the only true answer to any question does not help anyone, and i feel attacked every time it is used as a response to my ideas about what can be done to get the dev/publishers to care about all their customers needs


The Linux publisher crowd DOES care about their customer's needs. Unfortunately, it still seems you're not seeing the problems that everyone, independent porter, publisher, etc. faces in this situation. We're only in an "okay" position right at the moment because of that little Q3:A debacle. The people that have the rights aren't the Linux publisher crowd, they're the Windows publisher crowd and if you're not buying Windows stuff, you're not their customer, period. They honestly do not care one whit right at the moment about you because to them, right or wrong, you and I are a teardrop in a giant sea. Getting them to see things better? What have I kept saying in this thread? Unless Valve actually magically makes it all work better (and they MIGHT just do that...) with Source and Steam coming to Linux- you're going to have to do it that way for a while yet because it's going to take a substantively large decrease in Windows title sales for them to pull their collective head out and see the demographic numbers for what they really are.

Moreover, everything you've come up with so far in this thread happens to have been tried, found to NOT work- because they all miss the point I keep bringing up. The game industry does NOT work in a manner that these things would do any bit of good. deanjo actually did do a bit of suggesting more suitable alternatives when I threw that challenge up at him in another thread. Getting people to tell us what you all want ported doesn't do a lick of good. We want the same things YOU all do in our hands (We like gaming and like doing it on Linux where things are typically better- else we wouldn't be doing this thankless work in the business... ;) )- but as I, Aradreth, and niniendowarrior have all pointed out in this thread, it's not as simple as that. Not how the industry is framed in right now.

If you're unwilling to help out by buying what's available (and I'm not going to insist people buy stuff they don't want...) you might want to stop and think about how to end-run, in a realistic manner, the problem I keep stating over and over again to everyone that brings up this subject in any forum of this nature.

If not, I've already told you what will work. It's because of how things are structured in the games industry as a whole. Honest.


my original post was full of unintended rage, as much as i respect what LGP's accomplised ( i have repeated this in my posts ) i know that in the end the copies sold for Linux are the ones that count, having a game that might not sell that good will hamper the future works of LGP


We have what we have to work with. Doesn't matter if it's LGP, Runesoft, Ryan, myself, etc. You're still missing that we have a limited say in what we can/can't get to port. Raging like you did on this one doesn't contribute anything to the situation and can actually muddy the waters.


as for Sacred, i sure do hope the Sacred 1 port will open doors to Sacred 2, i'll try the demo anyway, i hope the Aug 2008 timeframe can be respected

It should. Michael Simms has gotten bit by announcements when we got rights a couple of times and he's more inclined to announce when the title's a solid beta these days. It would make sometime around that timeframe unless it develops a few narfy show-stoppers like Bandits has right at the moment.

The big take away from all this conversation should be that each one of these deals that LGP or Runesoft (or Ryan Gordon, or...) does leads to another, usually better, or much better one- so long as the deals at least bring break-even or better out of them. This is going to be the case for a while yet.

[niniendowarrior]

It should. Michael Simms has gotten bit by announcements when we got rights a couple of times and he's more inclined to announce when the title's a solid beta these days. It would make sometime around that timeframe unless it develops a few narfy show-stoppers like Bandits has right at the moment.
I keep staring at the beta page and still no Sacred. :D I've been hoping to get to help out on it but it still hasn't popped up yet.


The big take away from all this conversation should be that each one of these deals that LGP or Runesoft (or Ryan Gordon, or...) does leads to another, usually better, or much better one- so long as the deals at least bring break-even or better out of them. This is going to be the case for a while yet.

Yeah. And hopefully LGP's endeavors prove to be good hits for them. :)

[Aradreth]

I keep staring at the beta page and still no Sacred. :D I've been hoping to get to help out on it but it still hasn't popped up yet.
I believe it'll sent out on the ML as well, might be an easier option. :p

[niniendowarrior]

I believe it'll sent out on the ML as well, might be an easier option. :p

I believe it'll come out on mailing list as well, but I tend to miss a lot of e-mails. :D

[Aradreth]

I believe it'll come out on mailing list as well, but I tend to miss a lot of e-mails. :D
I use to be the same I had to start using kmail/claws-mail with filters and lots of subfolder else I'd forget to check or lose the important stuff in the emails from my more active mailing lists.

[Aradreth]

I keep staring at the beta page and still no Sacred. :D I've been hoping to get to help out on it but it still hasn't popped up yet.
It has now if you've not yet noticed. :p

[niniendowarrior]

:) I already applied. I was going to open my mail to do some forum registration and saw it get into my inbox. :D

[hmmm]

did you end up following up falcon 4.0: allied force svartalf?

[Licaon]

:) I already applied. I was going to open my mail to do some forum registration and saw it get into my inbox. :Di hope they choose me too :D

[Aradreth]

that's a fair view, but that won't make Sacred or Sacred 2/3/4/etc a good/better game at least not in my view
too bad that the good intentions of linuxgamepublishing meet these bad game choices
i hope they choose me too :D
I'm curious as to why you bother beta testing a game you say you don't like as you'll end up playing an hour or two before stop because you think it's crap/boring/whatever. It also takes places away from people that will enjoy testing the game as there are typically more applications then beta places.

[Svartalf]

I'm curious as to why you bother beta testing a game you say you don't like as you'll end up playing an hour or two before stop because you think it's crap/boring/whatever. It also takes places away from people that will enjoy testing the game as there are typically more applications then beta places.

Heh... Had to wonder about that one myself.

[Licaon]

Heh... Had to wonder about that one myself.like i said before, i want to help and i can beta test the game even if i don't like it in the end

but, hey, i know that i blew my wannabe beta tester chances with those posts before, since you and the others will report me to LGP :O

[niniendowarrior]

Hehe... I have to admit I wondered myself. But, Licaon, purge those thoughts from your mind, everyone has a fair chance to beta-test. If you get it, very good tidings for you then. (if you perceive it as such). :)