Minix 3.3 Released With Cortex-A8 ARM Support, NetBSD Userland Compatibility

[phoronix]

Phoronix: Minix 3.3 Released With Cortex-A8 ARM Support, NetBSD Userland Compatibility

Andrew Tanenbaum and his crew have released a significant update to Minix. The Minix 3.3.0 release comes with x86 and ARM support, is mostly compatible with the NetBSD user-land while its kernel is less than 13k lines of code, and it's BSD-licensed...

http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTc4OTk

[monraaf]

BSD seems to be where all the fun is. Is it because of the Pottering nonsense or what?

[wikinevick]

BSD seems to be where all the fun is. Is it because of the Pottering nonsense or what?

Nah ... the BSDs (and Minix) keep doing their stuff without considering what specific linux developers do or think. What is really nice is that the different BSDs have different approach to things but ultimately the licenses are compatible so there is no drama if a specific project doesn't find it's way into a specific tree. Good ideas eventually find a way into the tree where they fit best.

[Luke_Wolf]

BSD seems to be where all the fun is. Is it because of the Pottering nonsense or what?

our definitions of "where all the fun is" may be different, but for how I define it, it's because the BSDs are focused on creating products as opposed to just being an amalgam of packages which makes things like PC-BSD very interesting to watch because it's working to actually create a desktop product, and due to the way its release schedule operates it's the first FOSS distro I'd be comfortable handing off to an OEM although it still needs quite a bit more polish.

[System25]

our definitions of "where all the fun is" may be different, but for how I define it, it's because the BSDs are focused on creating products as opposed to just being an amalgam of packages which makes things like PC-BSD very interesting to watch

The only problem here is that product lacks any particular usecases and project management of BSD seems to missing, defunct or just wrecked beyound repair. The result is some system which is theoretically cool but sucks a lot when it comes to actual usage. No drivers? Just two awkward and slow filesystems? Missing package management? Who the f...k this "product" targets as userbase? Masochistically inclined persons?

because it's working to actually create a desktop product,

Desktop product? They did not tweaked scheduler and did not offered something like lightweight but fast filesystem like ext4. Nor they coded missing device drivers. They haven't ported apps and haven't conviced Valve to support this crap. All they did is FreeBSD rebadging and image rebuilding.

[quote]and due to the way its release schedule operates it's the first FOSS distro I'd be comfortable handing off to an OEM although it still needs quite a bit more polish.
Oh yeah, ditch FBSD kernel, add decent package manager with repos full of packages, etc, etc and ... eh, what has left of BSD? Nothing? BSDs suxx as product and it takes some huge megacorporations to fix that. So far I only know about 3. Sony used BSD in PS4. Ironically, they have drivers for AMD APUs but good luck to get similar hardware on wheels in BSDs. Who basically ignored DRM and KMS for several years and then suddenly learned all drivers gone this way and UMS is deprecated and eventually became no longer supported. So, FBSD graphic stack at this time is a ripoff of ancient Linux code (about 9 kernel versions ago). It is in very early state, lacking features and plagued with all sorts of bugs (erm, good luck to use GCN-based AMD GPU, for example). But this awful shit called "desktop system" and "product". Whoa, are you guys real or what?

[wizard69]

Hey it has been years.

Years since I've even thought about Minix. I have to wonder how systems based on this kernel perform.

[wikinevick]

The only problem here is that product lacks any particular usecases and project management of BSD seems to missing, defunct or just wrecked beyound repair. The result is some system which is theoretically cool but sucks a lot when it comes to actual usage. No drivers? Just two awkward and slow filesystems? Missing package management? Who the f...k this "product" targets as userbase? Masochistically inclined persons?

This is all somewhat off-topic to Minix, but just the same the linux distributions all lack that "particular use cases and project management". It doesn't seem like you've ever used PC-BSD: at least from my experiences most hardware just runs, there is an AppCafe with it's fine independent package management. It's actually a fine desktop.

Desktop product? They did not tweaked scheduler and did not offered something like lightweight but fast filesystem like ext4. Nor they coded missing device drivers. They haven't ported apps and haven't conviced Valve to support this crap. All they did is FreeBSD rebadging and image rebuilding.

Valve is not really worth it. The PS4 and Xbox makers are already aware that people don't want consoles that act as desktops or desktop that behave as consoles. UFS2 is pretty competitive to ext4 .. plus it's stable.

Oh yeah, ditch FBSD kernel, add decent package manager with repos full of packages, etc, etc and ... eh, what has left of BSD? Nothing? BSDs suxx as product and it takes some huge megacorporations to fix that. So far I only know about 3. Sony used BSD in PS4. Ironically, they have drivers for AMD APUs but good luck to get similar hardware on wheels in BSDs. Who basically ignored DRM and KMS for several years and then suddenly learned all drivers gone this way and UMS is deprecated and eventually became no longer supported. So, FBSD graphic stack at this time is a ripoff of ancient Linux code (about 9 kernel versions ago). It is in very early state, lacking features and plagued with all sorts of bugs (erm, good luck to use GCN-based AMD GPU, for example). But this awful shit called "desktop system" and "product". Whoa, are you guys real or what?

I think they are doing fine: drivers, schedulers and filesystems are better left to the experts. The FreeBSD developers are top notch people that can take better care of the kernel than the people involved in making desktops. They do provide extra funding for the FreeBSD project and that is certainly welcome.

[zog6]

Does it run on these ARM boxes: http://www.minix.com.hk/Products.htm

would be cool if it did, already "branded"...

[System25]

This is all somewhat off-topic to Minix,

Agree. But they share something in common: awful project management. Do you understand Minix has been used by Torvalds to code initial parts of Linux? Yet Minix only got swap/VM and shared libs loading only couple of years ago. So mumbling something about PRODUCTS in ths thread is really funny.

but just the same the linux distributions all lack that "particular use cases and project management".

It really distro-dependent and more or less viable distros usually have more or less sane goals, which serve as reason for humans to join their forces and collaborate.

It doesn't seem like you've ever used PC-BSD: at least from my experiences most hardware just runs, there is an AppCafe with it's fine independent package management. It's actually a fine desktop.

That's what BSDish nuts mumble all the time. The only problem is that you either should carefully select your hardware or be exceptionally lucky. Now go grab modern AMD GPU or APU and try to get "experience". Modern == manufactured and sold these days, if you don't get it.

Valve is not really worth it. The PS4 and Xbox makers are already aware that people don't want consoles that act as desktops or desktop that behave as consoles.

The only problem is that Sony and MS do not care about "free" BSDs and if someone up to using desktops, so all this completely irrelevant to PC-BSD. Not to mention consoles are locked-down devices (greetings to BSDish view of "freedom" once more) and do not assume PC-style usage. Yet, I fail to get idea how to play some games on consoles. Shooters? I can be quite competitive with keyboard and mouse, but I do not really get why someone may want to play these on console. Sounds like really inconvenient thing to do. Then, more or less advanced and complicated RPGs and strategies are not really working well on consoles due to farly limited input controls. So IMO PC gaming haves its market share and in fact I would prefer mentioned genres. And they tend to require accurate, fully-featured input only PCs can offer. So speaking for myself, I would consider Valve as advantage. Sure, it is not groundbreaking, but "good to have" for sure.

And if we're about products, we can see Debian maybe not perfectly polished but its package base and established practices make it a really good point to start. Their policies target some more or less the way their system being used in real world and powerful package management with established community makes it not too hard to respin it as some polished product where you have to pay attention to UI/UX (Debian defaults suxx for sure).

UFS2 is pretty competitive to ext4 .. plus it's stable.

Benchmarks usually have different idea about that. As for stability, FAT16 is even more "stable": nobody would bother self to change anything in this crap.

I think they are doing fine: drivers, schedulers and filesystems are better left to the experts.

The only problem is that this "product" is not even half-baked and most daunting issues were left to someone ... somewhere ... who maybe will never appear at all. And the only "advantage" you can offer is ability to close source. From user's standpoint it rather transforms into major disadvantage AKA vendor lock.

The FreeBSD developers are top notch people that can take better care of the kernel than the people involved in making desktops. They do provide extra funding for the FreeBSD project and that is certainly welcome.

Toralds once told far more colorful phrase about BSDs project management and looking on how most pressing issues are handled I can admit he was damn right . So there're many blah-blah, but really crappy results in terms of some usable products. To make something sane from BSD (or Minux) you should be Sony-sized corporation. Takes far less resources if you use some Linux as "base". And Valve got it. They do not have resources comparable to Sony or MS, yet with Linux they can get a great thing: technological independence. I.e. they can supply own system where they control all aspects. And good thing is that opensource is all about sharing results and avoiding duplicate counterproductive work. For that reason I wouldn't consider proprietary derivatives: its THEIR success which haves nothing to do with someone else since nobody else would benefit from this activity. So why should I care about it?