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  • NVIDIA Continues Ramping Up Their Vulkan Articles

    Phoronix: NVIDIA Continues Ramping Up Their Vulkan Articles

    NVIDIA has continued their recent trend of blog posts about the next-generation, yet-to-be-released Vulkan graphics API...

    Phoronix, Linux Hardware Reviews, Linux hardware benchmarks, Linux server benchmarks, Linux benchmarking, Desktop Linux, Linux performance, Open Source graphics, Linux How To, Ubuntu benchmarks, Ubuntu hardware, Phoronix Test Suite

  • #2
    I don't get it why AMD lets NVIDIA steal their thunder when it comes to Vulkan. Vulkan is basically their brain child, but apart from a slide where they talked about their closed source Vulkan driver that will be open source later we haven't heard anything about Vulkan from them since it was announced. Even ImaginationTechnologies and Intel showed some demos and had a few blog posts and seminars. For me as a consumer that is telling me that AMD is much less invested in Vulkan than NVIDIA and that I better buy a NVIDIA card. In the meantime you can hear them banging the DirectX12 drum all the time.
    It would have been so cheap for them to improve their reputation with the Linux community, by just showing a demo where Vulkan on Linux makes an AMD card perform at its hardware limit. The unclear driver situation doesn't make it any better. With NVIDIA it's pretty clear which cards will be supported and how they will be supported.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by blackout23 View Post
      I don't get it why AMD lets NVIDIA steal their thunder when it comes to Vulkan. Vulkan is basically their brain child, but apart from a slide where they talked about their closed source Vulkan driver that will be open source later we haven't heard anything about Vulkan from them since it was announced. Even ImaginationTechnologies and Intel showed some demos and had a few blog posts and seminars. For me as a consumer that is telling me that AMD is much less invested in Vulkan than NVIDIA and that I better buy a NVIDIA card. In the meantime you can hear them banging the DirectX12 drum all the time.
      It would have been so cheap for them to improve their reputation with the Linux community, by just showing a demo where Vulkan on Linux makes an AMD card perform at its hardware limit. The unclear driver situation doesn't make it any better. With NVIDIA it's pretty clear which cards will be supported and how they will be supported.
      if i would wager a guess, AMD simply can't afford to hype Vulkan. they also helped with DX12 development which they were paid for

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      • #4
        Good news for AMD: Their next-generation Polaris chips are probably going to have a 4-6 month lead before Nvidia gets Pascal onto the market.
        In that time, AMD is free to get their Vulkan Linux drivers up to snuff.

        Then, when Nvidia launches Pascal we'll see who has better Vulkan support. Once again, AMD -- who supposedly came up with 90% of Vulkan before it even launched and ought to have a huge advantage here -- will have plenty of time to show that they really care about Linux by getting first-rate drivers together long before Nvidia has its next generation product commercially available.

        Given all those advantages, if Nvidia's support level for Vulkan massively outclasses AMD when Pascal launches, then AMD loses yet another opportunity for me to buy their hardware. I'm making it easy on AMD, but the excuses can only get you so far.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by blackout23 View Post
          I don't get it why AMD lets NVIDIA steal their thunder when it comes to Vulkan. Vulkan is basically their brain child, but apart from a slide where they talked about their closed source Vulkan driver that will be open source later we haven't heard anything about Vulkan from them since it was announced. Even ImaginationTechnologies and Intel showed some demos and had a few blog posts and seminars. For me as a consumer that is telling me that AMD is much less invested in Vulkan than NVIDIA and that I better buy a NVIDIA card. In the meantime you can hear them banging the DirectX12 drum all the time.
          It would have been so cheap for them to improve their reputation with the Linux community, by just showing a demo where Vulkan on Linux makes an AMD card perform at its hardware limit. The unclear driver situation doesn't make it any better. With NVIDIA it's pretty clear which cards will be supported and how they will be supported.
          The explanation, as seen on Wikipedia:
          Nvidia: Revenue US$ 4.13 billion, net income US$ 439.99 million (2014)
          AMD: Revenue $5.50 billion, net income -$403 million (2014)

          As a result, there are many things Nvidia can do and AMD can't.
          Also, a personal (hopefully baseless) fear of mine is AMD won't execute on Vulkan any better than they did with OpenGL.

          PS If you factor in equities and assets, the gap is even larger.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by chuckula View Post
            Good news for AMD: Their next-generation Polaris chips are probably going to have a 4-6 month lead before Nvidia gets Pascal onto the market.
            In that time, AMD is free to get their Vulkan Linux drivers up to snuff.

            Then, when Nvidia launches Pascal we'll see who has better Vulkan support. Once again, AMD -- who supposedly came up with 90% of Vulkan before it even launched and ought to have a huge advantage here -- will have plenty of time to show that they really care about Linux by getting first-rate drivers together long before Nvidia has its next generation product commercially available.

            Given all those advantages, if Nvidia's support level for Vulkan massively outclasses AMD when Pascal launches, then AMD loses yet another opportunity for me to buy their hardware. I'm making it easy on AMD, but the excuses can only get you so far.
            I agree completely with your first 2 paragraphs. The third one is your opinion and your entitled to it, but we really need to wait and see. Keep in mind though, AMD's initial Vulkan support will be a closed blob. We won't see that code until some time after Pascal, so even when Nvidia is in their preferred position, AMD will still be angling into their preferred position.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by bug77 View Post

              The explanation, as seen on Wikipedia:
              Nvidia: Revenue US$ 4.13 billion, net income US$ 439.99 million (2014)
              AMD: Revenue $5.50 billion, net income -$403 million (2014)

              As a result, there are many things Nvidia can do and AMD can't.
              Also, a personal (hopefully baseless) fear of mine is AMD won't execute on Vulkan any better than they did with OpenGL.

              PS If you factor in equities and assets, the gap is even larger.
              Well you fear that AMD's Vulkan implementation won't perform on par with hardware ability is a bit premature. We haven't seen any performance metrics yet. If Vulkan support ever makes it to the VLIW4/VLIW5 generations that can support it, you may well be right. But I'm fully expecting the GCN generations to all perform incredibly well, not because of evidence, but because the architecture is exactly suited to it.

              EDIT: It comes down to VLIW architectures relying heavily on optimizing compilers and Scalar architectures having the right hardware to optimize transparently. Basically advanced knowledge of what's in flight at very low latencies, vs no knowledge of what's in flight and educated guessing at what might be the fastest path.
              Last edited by duby229; 12 February 2016, 11:47 AM.

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              • #8
                Those nvidia articles give an atmosphere as if nvidia isn't happy at all about Vulkan, they are basically saying that Vulkan has the same flaws that OpenGL has and that it will require specific hardware code paths like OpenGL does... Also all the effort they are doing to mix OpenGL with Vulkan smells like their drivers is going to run Vulkan in top of OpenGL and not the other way around...

                Maybe they think that once Vulkan is out, if it becomes widely adopted, they will loose the competitive advantage they have of having a better performer OpenGL driver. While they are saying that Vulkan will not improve situation much and will just complicate stuff, other companies are showcasing demos of opengl vs Vulkan where Vulkan performs a lot better.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by TheOne View Post
                  Those nvidia articles give an atmosphere as if nvidia isn't happy at all about Vulkan,
                  As an experienced programmer, I didn't see one iota of negativity in any of those Nvidia articles. Instead, I saw a pretty smart analysis of the tradeoffs between two different APIs that was clearly written by an experienced software engineer and not a marketing droid. Frankly, not one bit of information in that article conflicted with the real-world performance issues that we saw in the handful of Mantle-enabled games that AMD got out the door before they decided to go with DX12 and Vulkan instead.

                  If you actually think that any of what that Nvidia guy wrote is flat wrong, then do one of two things: 1. Write a detailed technical analysis showing why he's wrong or 2. Since AMD apparently invented all of this stuff in the first place and is light years ahead of Nvidia, have one of their developers post a detailed technical explanation about how there are no disadvantages whatsoever to going to Vulkan.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by justmy2cents View Post

                    if i would wager a guess, AMD simply can't afford to hype Vulkan. they also helped with DX12 development which they were paid for
                    I think the move to explicit APIs like DX12 and Vulkan is beneficial to AMD. Regarding Vulkan though their director of VR did say the below

                    "DX12 and it's integration into Windows is a great development environment and has great compatibility. Does that mean that Vulkan doesn't have a place? No. I think that answer has to come from the dev community, not from us."

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