Nvidia blames nvidia for driver cheating in H.A.W.X. 2

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11-28-2010, 03:14 PM
crazycheese

If HAWX would be opensource, this would be already fixed in matter of minutes.
11-28-2010, 03:23 PM
BlackStar

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazycheese

If HAWX would be opensource, this would be already fixed in matter of minutes.

Implying this was a bug in the first place.

Ever considered the game might be using high-quality AA *by design*?
11-28-2010, 03:59 PM
Qaridarium

Quote:

Originally Posted by curaga

Considering the issue, it's absolutely none of Nvidia's business to go circumventing the action like this.

It's not a misrender, crash etc, it just shows better quality than requested. Since this is done regardless of graphics vendor, the only reason for N to do this is to show "X % increase in fps by this driver".

thats it! they don't care about bugfixing anything they just wana have more FPS to sell hardware more expensiv.
11-28-2010, 04:06 PM
Qaridarium

Quote:

Originally Posted by movieman

LOL... I can tell you've never written hardware drivers. We often had to work around braindead programming in applications by detecting that said application was running and doing something other than what they asked for. For example, in one case we implemented a feature in hardware that the competition did in software, and an application was reconfiguring it hundreds of times a second which required barely any effort in software but caused a major stall in hardware; we had little choice but to detect that application and push it into a software implementation of the feature because what it was doing was simply insane.
Actually, it's worse than that in that we actually had to _put bugs into our drivers_ because some applications relied on bugs in the drivers they were testing with in order to function, so if our drivers didn't have the same bugs then their application would fall over.
Ah, the joys of proprietary closed-source software where no-one wants to take responsibility for fixing their bugs!

i translate your message for non clousedsource driver devs:

"cloused source is bad because of braindead programming in applications"

"cloused source was bad because they don't use hardware features"

"cloused source was worst because the driver need to be buggy because of the apps"

"cloused source was more worst than ever because no one wana close any bugs in the apps"

and in the end your message to Nvidia the cloused source driver devs :

"Nvidia is bad because they make cloused source drivers."
11-28-2010, 04:08 PM
Plombo

By design?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackStar

Implying this was a bug in the first place.

Ever considered the game might be using high-quality AA *by design*?

The game *says* it's using 4xAA when this happens, so that would be a completely braindead design decision. Why would they *intentionally* design incorrect behavior into their software?
11-28-2010, 04:12 PM
Qaridarium

Quote:

Originally Posted by bridgman

I have to disagree here. A lot of the "driver bug fixes" are really workarounds for app bugs - apps tend not to get updated once they have released so the only practical solution for customers is to work around the problem in the driver. That's one of the reasons you need to refactor/rewrite driver components periodically -- they end up full of so many app workarounds that the code becomes very difficult to maintain.

uuhh many arguments for opensource drivers ;)

you disagree with nvidia and there cloused source drivers ;)

cloused source means lot of pointless work arround app bugs

cloused source apps tend to never get an bugfix after release means cloused source apps are buggy by definition means bad.

work arround the cloused source bug is ugly yes sure ugly!

cloused source is a fail per definition because of the difficulty of maintain thats just burns money and humans...

well yes i'm so hopefully for the opensource world ;)
11-28-2010, 04:19 PM
Kano

And ati oss drivers are bugfree. rovide power management and full opengl 4.1 support? Sure, you are the one who wants to to run your Win games with wine, no way for oss drivers for new titles. Nv has in most cases the best drivers on Linux also for Win you get Physx as bonus. But with your lowend ATI card it does not really matter ;)
11-28-2010, 04:22 PM
Qaridarium

Quote:

Originally Posted by deanjo

Absolutely a bug "should" be fixed in the apps source. Unfortunately that is not always the case. Video drivers are crammed full of app specific fixes. Look at ANY driver release from ANY vendor and you will see thousands of these examples where the bug was addressed at the driver level instead of at the app level. IF the desired effect of the setting in the app was to use the best option provided by the hardware then the dev should have made the setting with options such as "Good, better, best" and not a specific setting such as "2x AA, 4x AA, 8x AA, etc" as they have no direct correlation to what would be chosen and results would vary with different devices.

I'll use one example of a project I am working on. It is a video encoding app. If I have a setting that says CD for size but the system detects a DVD in the drive and it winds up producing a size that will only fit on a DVD then that is a bug. Now if I specify encoding a video file at a constant 13.5 Mbit CBR stream then that end stream better damn well be a 13.5 Mbit stream and not a 14 or 15 Mbit stream just because I have room to accommodate such bitrates, if it does it is a bug. Now if I set the system to give me a good,/better/best quality on a video encode then it will do what it has to do to give me that quality regardless of size.

sure but the result is easy: Cloused source is BAD!

cloused source means the app did not get an bugfix

cloused source also means to build an driver becomes very expensiv because of pointless app profiles

and yes sure the menue was just wrong and your point of (good/better/best)AA is really good

thats because this means its an cheat because in REAL the 4XAA menue option was just the "Best AA" option but nvidia just cheat FPS to be the winnner in the benchmarks!
11-28-2010, 04:47 PM
Kano

Bad oss drivers are bad too - especially when you can not see something when you boot a live system... Or they crash when a splash is activated and so on... Oss drivers are mainly fun for bleeding edge users with no other hobbies than testing oss drivers.
11-28-2010, 04:59 PM
Qaridarium

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kano

Bad oss drivers are bad too - especially when you can not see something when you boot a live system... Or they crash when a splash is activated and so on... Oss drivers are mainly fun for bleeding edge users with no other hobbies than testing oss drivers.

i really likes your writing kano ;)

hopyfully debian 6 comes out fast thats because i like to test your new debian 6 based distry ;)

on your physX statement last time i play borderlance an physX game but i can play the game perfect on amd hardware in linux...

means physX isn't sooo magic you only need a fast cpu i play it on an phenomII3,6ghz

means no one need a nvidia card for physX...

and hey i don't care about bluerays and video acceleration ;)

the catalyst 11.1 will be fine for my usage

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