Talk Of A "Massive Power Regression" In Linux 3.5

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by madjr

Well that's totally the wrong way of doing things: release broken, non tested stuff and try to fix them sometime in the future.

Windows does not have this issue because they do things the other way: test test test, before releasing and is why they release a preview release and a bunch of other releases prior to final.

example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_8
-Several Milestones
-Developer Preview
-Consumer Preview
-Release Preview
-Release to Manufacturing
-and then General availability (if ready)

This "we need to release" a kernel (and/or a distro) every 6 months (because we want to) with limited to no testing.

These fixed dates don't make much sense, and is why we always have these regressions. And then they say "don't worry it will probably be fixed on next releases" and then a release after they break it again and the cycle of breakage goes on forever.

If windows had the same "we don't care" linux release model it would be a broken mess that fails time after time.

In conclusion: please Release if ready !

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
-- Albert Einstein

---

this exist in the linux kernel too but the biggest difference is that microsoft[even more mac] only test on a selected set of hardware the rest of the drivers are tested by the hardware vendors and this problem is not unique to linux either all windows version has suffered from very nasty regression and bugs too[dunno in which world you live in tho ] hence that is why you have drivers hotfixes and service packs/critical updates all the time[they don't put it there for fun you know]

btw linux have LTS releases wich are very well tested[3.2 series] and is used in all commercial / stable distros[rhel/debian/ubuntu LTS/etc], so if you want a stable/tested software stick with a stable distro but if you wanna live bleeding edge don't whine and go report bugs if you find them

note that kernel releases are not releases or final releases like in other OSes but more like bleeding edge but usable enough for test the next stuff, distros are the ones that test those kernel to death and stick to them for a nice time until the next one is ready for produccion systems[named red hat and debian].

so you can't compare linux kernel to windows[one is a kernel and the other is an OS], the correct would be redhat/debian to windows[both are OSes one with a linux kernel the other with an NT kernel] and in that sense redhat and debian are very stable [more than windows in many cases] and enterprise proven

for your information windows do the same with the NT kernel you just can't get the next release since is closed to microsoft employees only while linux dev happens realtime and openly

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by not.sure

Switching between 3.2 and 3.4 (debian kernels) I have the impression that already 3.4 chews through more power than 3.2. Power efficiency really needs more attention from guys like Intel or RedHat or google.

---

Why don't the debian devs try and fix it?
Red Hat and Google and Intel have their own priorities and power management might not be at the top of stack. Debian, being composed of volunteers, can more easily choose what they work on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jrch2k8

this exist in the linux kernel too but the biggest difference is that microsoft[even more mac] only test on a selected set of hardware the rest of the drivers are tested by the hardware vendors and this problem is not unique to linux either all windows version has suffered from very nasty regression and bugs too[dunno in which world you live in tho ] hence that is why you have drivers hotfixes and service packs/critical updates all the time[they don't put it there for fun you know]

btw linux have LTS releases wich are very well tested[3.2 series] and is used in all commercial / stable distros[rhel/debian/ubuntu LTS/etc], so if you want a stable/tested software stick with a stable distro but if you wanna live bleeding edge don't whine and go report bugs if you find them

note that kernel releases are not releases or final releases like in other OSes but more like bleeding edge but usable enough for test the next stuff, distros are the ones that test those kernel to death and stick to them for a nice time until the next one is ready for produccion systems[named red hat and debian].

so you can't compare linux kernel to windows[one is a kernel and the other is an OS], the correct would be redhat/debian to windows[both are OSes one with a linux kernel the other with an NT kernel] and in that sense redhat and debian are very stable [more than windows in many cases] and enterprise proven

for your information windows do the same with the NT kernel you just can't get the next release since is closed to microsoft employees only while linux dev happens realtime and openly

---

Ok , so it's alright for the kernel devs to barely QA and it basically should be the distros job ? .....

Am getting the impression that there is a good lack of communication and coordination. Everyone wants to wipe their hands clean and point fingers to the others. Seems most open source projects have this attitude lately (including gnome). Everyone just wants to do their own thing.

I call this Open code, Closed minds.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by madjr

Ok , so it's alright for the kernel devs to barely QA and it basically should be the distros job ? .....

---

Yes.

You are not employing the kernel developers.
You are not giving free hardware samples to the kernel developers.
You are not even willing to provide bug reports to the kernel developers.

Also, no one is forcing you to use Linux, Gnome or whatever it is you don't like.

If it doesn't work for you, just don't bloody use it and shut up, or file a bug report and shut up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by madjr

Ok , so it's alright for the kernel devs to barely QA and it basically should be the distros job ? .....

Am getting the impression that there is a good lack of communication and coordination. Everyone wants to wipe their hands clean and point fingers to the others. Seems most open source projects have this attitude lately (including gnome). Everyone just wants to do their own thing.

I call this Open code, Closed minds.

---

What happened? Didn't get your money's worth out of Linux and feeling cheated? Sheesh...

well thats always been linux motto is free so shut the fuck up if it doesnt work for u :go back to windows.or fixit urself do it urself bla bla. with this kind of atitude and thinking and reacting never in this lifetime linux will win the desktop!
And most users use a pirated copy of windows except US and those preinstalled laptops, so windows is also free. People stick to linux because they like it not because its free, and the power regressions are not even that much of a deal, graphic driver on linux are in a poor shape. I used linux since like 2003 but i dont know why back then it felt much more stable and much more better tested but i also think the hardware might have been much more simple.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by adriankx

well thats always been linux motto is free so shut the fuck up if it doesnt work for u :go back to windows.or fixit urself do it urself bla bla. with this kind of atitude and thinking and reacting never in this lifetime linux will win the desktop!
And most users use a pirated copy of windows except US and those preinstalled laptops, so windows is also free. People stick to linux because they like it not because its free, and the power regressions are not even that much of a deal, graphic driver on linux are in a poor shape. I used linux since like 2003 but i dont know why back then it felt much more stable and much more better tested but i also think the hardware might have been much more simple.

---

no you are wrong here like i said kernel devs can't test every possible hardware combo outhere[no matter how much you whine is not possible] and kernel devs don't have OEM to test their machines. if you get your facts straight windows can't do it either they just test a common subset of hardware[normally recomended and minimal settings with big brand hardware].

another fact is that HP/DELL/Gateway/[put another vendor here] do most of the heavy lifting along with the hardware vendors[yes adaptec test they raid cards no microsoft for example] and if they report failures then microsoft fix[or like in many cases ugly hack it] and once microsoft got certain amount of patches then they pull it to the testers, repeat again and again until release

linux don't have many vendors[especially motherboards where most regression are sure to happen] that provide support or testing meaning we need someone to buy that board and report any possible issues since motherboard vendors don't give a rat ass about non latest windows due to many draconian deals with microsoft as the fact none of them respect the ACPI ISO STANDARD which put the additional fun of pull out of your ass the correct acpi table registers to make it work

C'mon guys, we don't need the arguing and trolling here, as many of you have valid points so if you experienced power issues document them in a bug report as not all hardware may be covered as motherboards and graphics cards each have their own power management hardware that might not always play nice with one another

"Time to fire up some systems and power meters myself to see if the Phoronix Test Suite can nail this power problem on the latest stable Linux kernel."

Any news yet?