Won't happen. Get over it. Linux devs already made their mind. Nvidia can't use DMA-BUF.Quote:
Originally Posted by christian_frank
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Won't happen. Get over it. Linux devs already made their mind. Nvidia can't use DMA-BUF.Quote:
Originally Posted by christian_frank
Just so I understand, you're saying that "years ago" we said that we would get rid of Catalyst Linux for HD8000 series ? I've been involved with the open source drivers since the HD2000 days and I really don't remember anything like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by artivision
John,
I read about the unfortunate layoffs at AMD.
While I know you're not responsible anymore for the open-source department,
can you tell us if it those layoffs (directly) affect the HSA and open-source efforts,
i.e. affecting paid developers, writing the docs and doc reviews by the legal department?
That's sad and doesn't make the decision less dumb . Thanks to the dev's for NOT taking care about end users ! If their intention wasQuote:
Originally Posted by asdx
to keep people with optimus laptops away from Linux, well done guys ! We surely will not see the "year of the linux desktop"anytime soon with this attitude.
The kernel is GPL and it has to be respected. What's dumb is Nvidia pretending that they can do whatever they want here. If they want to use Linux interfaces they need to play by our rules and respect the license.Quote:
Originally Posted by christian_frank
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdx
Well, i don't share your opinion here. If they wanted to reuse gpl kernel code in their code or if they wanted to push closed source code parts into the kernel, i would agree with you.
But they really only want to use an interface for communication. Nothing more. Thats far away from beeing evil imho.
Another example: If e.g an USB Dongle copy protection hw vendor wants to use the usb interface for communcation with the device, but the way it does it is closed source for keeping the copy protection save, would you also deny this ?
Objectively speaking, it is a dick move by Alan Cox and the devs but your feelings are a bit misplaced.Quote:
Originally Posted by christian_frank
For one. if you are buying a notebook with an Nvidia graphics card to play games you should be running Windows as the primary operating system, not Linux. Even when Steam for Linux arrives, it will only bring a tiny subset of games to Linux. Windows is still where the other 90+% of extremely graphics-intensive, resource-demanding AAA titles are published for. WINE is no substitute and should never be seen as one. If one is going to spend more than half the time playing Windows games, use the right operating system for the right job and run Windows 7 with its full DirectX 11 support.
More importantly, the Nvidia driver in Windows also has more options, such as offering the ability to select either the integrated Intel HD graphics or the dedicated GPU as the primary hardware to drive graphics rendering, or to leave it at the default auto-switching mode (which works remarkably well most of the time).
Therefore it really makes zero sense to install Linux on a notebook that utilizes Nvidia's Optimus technology. Bumblebee's Optirun is lilttle more than a kludge to enable the use of the dedicated GPU on an application-by-application basis, and the Linux kernel is not intelligent enough to automatically shut down the dedicated GPU even if the Intel core is being used as the primary renderer, wheras in Windows it does.
If you already own such a notebook, my best advice is to simply swallow your distaste for Windows and use it for the better driver and power support, or sell it off and get a notebook with only Intel's built-in graphics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonadow
My feelings are not misplaced and yes, this is really a dick move.
I'm owning a nvidia optimus laptop and i'm running win 7 on it right now cause of the lack of optimus support from nvidia. I play games from time to time, mostly SC2 which runs fine with cx/wine on my nvidia desktop. It also would run fine on my laptop. All upcoming valve games also easily would run on this laptop, IF you run the NVIDIA blob.
So i'm forced to use a OS which I REALLY dislike cause some of the devs of my favourite OS are, imho, acting like little kids with bullheads from time to time.
I can only say that it is never good when one starts to use words such as 'like' or 'dislike' to describe an operating system. They are just tools; a means to achieve an end. And one should always use the most suitable tool for any job.Quote:
Originally Posted by christian_frank
Im not fond of Linux. At all. But i use it because the build toolchain is much easier to understand than Microsoft's Visual Studio environment where the command line tools for compiling software are confusing enough to baffle just about anybody (although Visual Studio the IDE is outstanding).
In a similar vein, Im not all that fond of how Windows loves to call home to its servers to check whether my copy is legitimate, whether my copy of Office is legitimate, etc etc. But I don't mind those annoyances because it enjoys the support of every single pheripheral vendor out there which essentially gurantees driver availability for virtually any hardware or pheripheral ever produced. And as someone who chases after the latest hardware on a regular basis (and burning a huge hole in the bank a/c in the process). this support is something that is totally priceless.
Finally, I always prefer to have all my software and applications come from one centralized provider for the sake of integration. That said, it should be little surprise that Windows is still my primary system. Again, it all boils down to choosing the best tool for the job.
Hey guys. Nvidia is not losing that much by being unable to use DMA_BUF. The users that will at best have the choice of either decent power management or decent performance may be losing a bit .. Just saying ..! Don't eat me. D:
Personally I love the opensource movement, and use Linux as my main OS some time now. In an ideal world everything would be open and we would't to compromise anything to have choice .. BUT we're not in that ideal world. :)
And I dare say that the model "open everything, then get good support and get everything to work" doesn't seem to work till now .. not so well .. for many years now .. xP
And where it does it's an exception.
Instead MAYBE just MAYBE we could settle for good support first, open everything later? Demanding everything to be open is cool and all, but will it work? Or work as well? Don't be narrow minded and think both long and short term.
And obviously 30-60 fps in a high end card is playable! But crap .. You don't buy a high end card to play at those numbers, you want everything on high levels, cause it will probably not be so well on high settings. And what about not so awesome high end cards?
And Intel GPUs(at least the ones made till now), which have good support(no personal experience from me though, so take it with a grain of salt), weren't meant for gaming .. Not due to developers or drivers or anything, but from intel and hardware design, they are low end. I'm certain Cryisis plays awesomely on your Intel ..!
They might have lower performance than windows, but games tend to be unplayable either at 8 or 5 fps, so doesn't even matter much here though.. xD
So if you want to play games(that many people do), and specifically high end games(which again many people do), not very high end necessarily, you'll need the binary blobs. End of story. That's how it is, and it won't change very soon .. :)
If you want to support open drivers ranting and whining and hating on Nvidia .. I doubt they'll help much .. There's many other ways though.
And yes, nouveau and radeon work. So does an OS I copied pasted from a youtube video and is a few lines of asm. It can boot!! Would you use it? I doubt ...
I'd probably use radeon instead of catalyst on my current laptop, but power-management is a show stopper .. I know it's AMD not letting code that was written already be published, but I won't fry my laptop still. Or buy a new one now. Let's be a bit realistic in the end.
Of course there are cards were the open drivers perform very good, comparable to closed ones(a bit worse or even better in certain cases!), but those are not really up to scratch with the latest games.
If the people who took their time write 20+ pages here wrote some code instead of hate comments for NVIDIA or used this time/typing for something more constructive(don't know what, even click ads on sites to get money to fund the open source development?), we'd live in a somewhat better place .. With better(and open?) drivers ..!!! :)
In the end NVIDIA offers decent support. My experience has been much better than AMD .. When radeon gets power management working fine(if not perfect) I'd very likely switch to it. Desktop performance seemed much better than Catalyst last time and I don't care that much for games(which sometimes perform better on radeon than Catalyst under Wine 0_0 ), not to mention Wayland ...!! Until then, it's kind of a no go for me .. :/