Heroes of Newerth 3.0 Has Many Game Changes

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02-01-2013, 09:30 PM
Sidicas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loafers

Former HoN Player since beta 2009.
The DDOS "Indian" Attacks that wiped out stats.

I believe that was stats for one game that a bunch of malicious people played ? Nobody cares about those stats for that game. I was playing before 2011 and I still have my stats.. So they didn't get wiped out??

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loafers

Numerous patches that lacked quality assurance. (Remember Gemini?)

I really don't recall the casual players caring much and the tournament players play in a different game mode that excludes new characters. I don't even recall any problems
specifically with Gemini other than being a little over powered. Playing against over-powered heroes can actually be kinda fun.. More teamwork involved, suddenly everybody on your team stops being lazy and starts checking to make sure they don't duplicate auras, and victory is all that much more sweet. It's really not hard at all to cripple any particular hero on the other team in the normal game mode. Just ward enough and get your team to group up and go hunting. It's not complicated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loafers

A player notified S2 of a Database Security Hole, but they did nothing. Guess what happened? [URL="http://www.dotallyrad.com/2012/12/breaking-news-s2-user-database-hacked-passwords-posted-in-twitch-chat/"]Passwords got leaked and stolen.

WRONG... It was one guy who attacked the servers first, had some fun by logging into other people's accounts and selling login credentials for $35 a pop.. He said he would only disclose the exploits *AFTER* S2Games patches them. There's only one word for those kinds of people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loafers

Lack of foresight in gameplay balance. Remember pre-nerf Gemini? Ra? Nomad? These are just a few instances of HoN dev's incompetence.

It's difficult to balance heros and they're trying to crank out a hero every 2 weeks to keep the casual gamers interested. If you don't like to play against certain heros, that's what banning pick and lockpick mode is for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loafers

Remember the HoN tour that was promised? how long did it take?

And that's so important... because.... why? I honestly have no idea why people would think that's important at all.. It's a game. You don't need a HoN Tour.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loafers

Remember map editor and custom games that was promised? Is it out yet?

Don't need. DOTA2 and the other competitors doesn't have this either. Heck, even the original DOTA series for WCII and WCIII were very strictly contolled so that people couldn't create spin-off maps. I'm surprised anybody was looking forward to a map editor since it's extremely difficult to make a good map.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loafers

Lies lies lies promises promises promises.
Competitive scene slowly killed by S2 incompetence and apathy. As a result, all the best players already left for Dota 2.

Nome and Pudding left when they knew the ship was sinking.

Strange, I was pretty sure they all switched simply because the original creator that popularized MOBAs was working on DOTA2 and they really didn't have any other reason.. Despite many DOTA2 players (such as yourself apparently) saying that there has been a mass exodus of people from HoN to DOTA2,

I can say that it simply isn't true.. When I started playing HoN there was about 20,000 people online at a time.. I remember last year when it went FTP there were over 60,000 people playing online at the same time... A couple weeks ago, for the first itme I saw over 115,000 people online playing at the same time.. I can't even guess how many will be playing after the buzz of HoN 3.0 dies down, but I'd bet it's over 130,000...

I'd say the major killer-feature that HoN has that DOTA2 doesn't is that HoN does a great job at putting culture into the game.. Remember the Nyan-Cat Courier? The Electrician Ghostbuster? The Michael Jackson taunt? The alt-avatars in HoN that speak other languages when you use them (French, Japanese, etc.).

I bought DOTA2, played it for a few weeks and wished I didn't.. Came back to HoN... I've spent a lot more money on HoN gold coins than I've spent on DOTA2 already and I still think it's worth it.
02-01-2013, 10:06 PM
KameZero

Already, I guess I'll stop being lazy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loafers

I left out the biggest instance of $2 douchebaggery: Maliken adamantly telling all the people who paid $30 for the game (such as myself) that it won't be F2P. Guess what happened? It went F2P. Then the whole pay2win issue entailed, which completely contradicted what they had said previously yet again. Do you remember what happened? Clearly you must b/c you are the more knowledgeable one here, but just in case you forgot, there was a massive shitstorm: quoted pictures of $2 statement contradicting themselves started cropping up in everyone's forum signature. Do you know what $2 did? They disabled images in signature.

Yes, I do remember this, and there's something you apparently somehow never understood: People who go on the forums ARE THE VAST MINORITY. The only time your average player will ever post on the forums is when they are having issues. What the people on the forums thinks does not matter.

As for changing to F2P after saying it never will be? Who cares? We got to play for over 2 years for $30, and now get a few perks that are now impossible to get. Obviosuly the $30 for the game model was not working, and they needed a new business model. So, they could either shut down HoN, go F2P, or start charging a monthly fee. What do you think was going to get the least bitching from the fanbase? I'll give you a hint: It's the one that doesn't require them to pay more money to keep playing HoN.

As for Early Access being pay to win: Most people don't think this or don't care. If you really cared all that much and thought early access heroes are pay to win? Or really that any hero is OP? That's literally why banning pick exists.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loafers

Oh yeah remember that bug where you could spectate a spectator who was spectating a spectator... causing players to disconnect and be unable to rejoin? Losing players would pull that shit off at the last moment to prevent a loss on their record. That wasn't fun.

Breaking news: Video games have bugs. All programs will have bugs no matter how rigorously you test them. The real issue is how fast these bugs are dealt with. I'm going to be honest, I don't know how fast this one was fixed. I do remember never being affected by it so it probably wasn't THAT long but I will leave that open to correction if anyone knows.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loafers

Remember when Ra first came out and was instapicked every game? Every noob would have over 400+ gpm. The fact that his ult was a reincarnation was even more retarded seeing how it was impossible to even kill him once. That wasn't fun.

Remember Gemini? No not not the exploit, but the hero itself. The opposing team would ALL have to get cyclone just to prevent the dogs from conjoining. That wasn't fun.

Remember when Tremble first came out? Remember $2 saying the hero didn't need any balancing? Guess what changed their mind: a player created a new account named "Tremblerape" and almost reached 40+ straight wins in Solo Queue. $2 response? Nerf.

Most people really don't care about balance. To the majority of players (IE, MMR=<1500) it doesn't really matter because even if a hero is terribly OP it still takes skill to be able to use them effectively. No amount of hero OPness is going to stop bad positioning, bad decisions, or just plain feeding.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loafers

I could go on, but it seems nothing I say will get you of $2's teat because clearly none of this stuff applies to you, but for the rest of us who once put faith and money in the game, it does.

Ad hominems always win internet arguments. It's a fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loafers

HoN WAS a good game, but if you still enjoy it, then so be it.

Thank you, I will.

I will say this though: Saying "$2" makes you look 12.
02-01-2013, 10:36 PM
Loafers

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidicas

I believe that was stats for one game that a bunch of malicious people played ? Nobody cares about those stats for that game. I was playing before 2011 and I still have my stats.. So they didn't get wiped out??

A lot of game stats were lost. Refresh your memory.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidicas

I really don't recall the casual players caring much and the tournament players play in a different game mode that excludes new characters.

Probably true, but I was pointing out $2's tendency to promise things only to not fulfill them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidicas

I don't even recall any problems
specifically with Gemini other than being a little over powered.

Then I guess you didn't play against him before the nerfs because he was broken as hell. There is no denying this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidicas

Playing against over-powered heroes can actually be kinda fun..

lmfao.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidicas

WRONG... It was one guy who attacked the servers first, had some fun by logging into other people's accounts and selling login credentials for $35 a pop.. He said he would only disclose the exploits *AFTER* S2Games patches them. There's only one word for those kinds of people.

Specifically what part of my statement was wrong? That they did nothing? Yes they did do something about it after it exploded. Pardon my poor english skills, but I meant they did nothing when they already knew of the problem almost two years ago. See video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy2jC5yT93E

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidicas

It's difficult to balance heros and they're trying to crank out a hero every 2 weeks to keep the casual gamers interested.

Nice, you just implied heroes are indeed imbalanced. Other games don't crank out heroes nearly every 2 weeks and still attract hordes of casual games, so your argument is invalid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidicas

If you don't like to play against certain heros, that's what banning pick and lockpick mode is for.

There's a fine line between not wanting to play against a hero that is imbalanced and one that counters your team. And like you said, most people are casual players — banning pick is seldom played not to mention time consuming. Your argument is invalid once more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidicas

And that's so important... because.... why? I honestly have no idea why people would think that's important at all.. It's a game. You don't need a HoN Tour.

You may be right HoN Tour may not be important, but fulfilling promises made to the community is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidicas

Don't need. DOTA2 and the other competitors doesn't have this either.

Firstly, I am not comparing this particular aspect with any other games out there. Secondly your missing the point: I am referring to $2's broken promise of custom map/game modes. You may not need it, but for people who paid money under the impression they would be working on this would kinda be pissed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidicas

Heck, even the original DOTA series for WCII and WCIII were very strictly contolled so that people couldn't create spin-off maps. I'm surprised anybody was looking forward to a map editor since it's extremely difficult to make a good map.

There was a dota for wc2? I didn't know that. Mind showing/linking me? I'm very curious. As for WCIII, custom games were virtually uncontrolled at all LOL. In fact, WC3 were the halcyon days where anybody with time and imagination could make a custom map and host it on battlenet. Treetag, tower defense, pyrmiad escape, etc... were those not good maps?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidicas

Strange, I was pretty sure they all switched simply because the original creator that popularized MOBAs was working on DOTA2 and they really didn't have any other reason..

They didn't switch b/c "the original creator that popularized MOBAs was working on DOTA2", they switched b/c they got fed up with $2 incompetence. Remember h4nn1? Watch 6:47:35 for a few minutes especially the part about gamescon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidicas

I can say that it simply isn't true.. When I started playing HoN there was about 20,000 people online at a time.. I remember last year when it went FTP there were over 60,000 people playing online at the same time... A couple weeks ago, for the first itme I saw over 115,000 people online playing at the same time.. I can't even guess how many will be playing after the buzz of HoN 3.0 dies down, but I'd bet it's over 130,000...

You are referring to the general player base — I am referring to the the best players and longtime veterans.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidicas

I'd say the major killer-feature that HoN has that DOTA2 doesn't is that HoN does a great job at putting culture into the game..

huh?.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidicas

I bought DOTA2, played it for a few weeks and wished I didn't.. Came back to HoN... I've spent a lot more money on HoN gold coins than I've spent on DOTA2 already and I still think it's worth it.

Uhhh dota2 is going to be free you do realize that right? And that invites to beta are like candy atm.
02-01-2013, 11:09 PM
Loafers

Quote:

Originally Posted by KameZero

Yes, I do remember this, and there's something you apparently somehow never understood: People who go on the forums ARE THE VAST MINORITY. The only time your average player will ever post on the forums is when they are having issues. What the people on the forums thinks does not matter.

If you say so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KameZero

As for changing to F2P after saying it never will be? Who cares?

The people that got lied to cares. If I had known what direction the game was going to and was promised not to, I wouldn't have paid at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KameZero

We got to play for over 2 years for $30, and now get a few perks that are now impossible to get.

The only impossible perk I can remember was the gold shield. Could you remind me of some other ones?

Quote:

Originally Posted by KameZero

Obviosuly the $30 for the game model was not working, and they needed a new business model. So, they could either shut down HoN, go F2P, or start charging a monthly fee. What do you think was going to get the least bitching from the fanbase? I'll give you a hint: It's the one that doesn't require them to pay more money to keep playing HoN.

Thanks for the business 101 lessons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KameZero

As for Early Access being pay to win: Most people don't think this or don't care. If you really cared all that much and thought early access heroes are pay to win? Or really that any hero is OP? That's literally why banning pick exists.

Really? Having a larger pool of heroes to pick from that your opponents can't play isn't pay2win? Oh my.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KameZero

Breaking news: Video games have bugs. All programs will have bugs no matter how rigorously you test them. The real issue is how fast these bugs are dealt with. I'm going to be honest, I don't know how fast this one was fixed. I do remember never being affected by it so it probably wasn't THAT long but I will leave that open to correction if anyone knows.

You are absolutely right, the issue is the speed at which they are dealt with, but how often it happens as well. $2 has repeatedly shown their Quality Assurance is severely lacking. I remember Friday patches usually broke shit that should have been caught through beta testing. Like really simple and major stuff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KameZero

Most people really don't care about balance. To the majority of players (IE, MMR=<1500) it doesn't really matter because even if a hero is terribly OP it still takes skill to be able to use them effectively. No amount of hero OPness is going to stop bad positioning, bad decisions, or just plain feeding.

If you say so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KameZero

I will say this though: Saying "$2" makes you look 12.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KameZero

Ad hominems always win internet arguments. It's a fact.

Damn I guess you just won this argument then :rolleyes:
02-02-2013, 11:12 AM
KameZero

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loafers

If you say so.

Thank you, I do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loafers

The people that got lied to cares. If I had known what direction the game was going to and was promised not to, I wouldn't have paid at all.

And yet you got to play for over two years for that $30. Just pretend they shut the server down instead of going free to play.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loafers

The only impossible perk I can remember was the gold shield. Could you remind me of some other ones?

Gold shield, some free alt I believe, and 2 extra silver per match.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loafers

Thanks for the business 101 lessons.

You're welcome.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loafers

Really? Having a larger pool of heroes to pick from that your opponents can't play isn't pay2win? Oh my.

No, no it is not. If it was, say, 20 or 30 heroes larger then I would definitly agree with you. But it's one hero. That isn't available in tournament mode. And you can always counter. Or just ban.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loafers

You are absolutely right, the issue is the speed at which they are dealt with, but how often it happens as well. $2 has repeatedly shown their Quality Assurance is severely lacking. I remember Friday patches usually broke shit that should have been caught through beta testing. Like really simple and major stuff.

You must be new to video games, that's the only way that your comment actually makes sense. Bugs. Happen. Every video game in existence. Bugs are going to crop up no matter how well your QA team does. Bugs happen in LoL, bugs happen in DotA (2), bugs happen in HoN. Bugs happen in SC2 and Black Ops 2 and Diablo 3 and super meat boy. It doesn't matter how much you pay for QA bugs are going to slip through. And when your game is updated every week, more bugs are going to appear than a game that is updated once a month. That's just how it's going to be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loafers

If you say so.

Thank you, I do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loafers

Damn I guess you just won this argument then :rolleyes:

... that wasn't an Ad Hominem. I was not saying your arguments were wrong or did not have merit because you said $2 (which makes you look twelve). I was merely informing you. An Ad Homenim would be "This guy looks 12 and thus his arguments don't hold any weight." Which I an neither saying nor implying.
02-02-2013, 10:25 PM
Loafers

Quote:

Originally Posted by KameZero

You must be new to video games, that's the only way that your comment actually makes sense. Bugs. Happen. Every video game in existence. Bugs are going to crop up no matter how well your QA team does. Bugs happen in LoL, bugs happen in DotA (2), bugs happen in HoN. Bugs happen in SC2 and Black Ops 2 and Diablo 3 and super meat boy. It doesn't matter how much you pay for QA bugs are going to slip through. And when your game is updated every week, more bugs are going to appear than a game that is updated once a month. That's just how it's going to be.

There is a fine line between bugs that are severely detrimental and bugs that are minor in nature. The big issues presented in my previous posts could have been avoided through very basic quality assurance checks. The stat loss was the result of no backups; the security breach was the result of pure stupidity — come on, a user even demonstrated it on YouTube. Saying x is bound to happen or going to happen no matter what, is a terrible excuse for complacency and incompetence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KameZero

... that wasn't an Ad Hominem. I was not saying your arguments were wrong or did not have merit because you said $2 (which makes you look twelve). I was merely informing you. An Ad Homenim would be "This guy looks 12 and thus his arguments don't hold any weight." Which I an neither saying nor implying.

Dunno man, dictionary seems to say otherwise.
ad ho·mi·nem
1. appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect
2. marked by or being an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made

Because bringing up age and saying someone looks 12 after presenting one's argument should clearly not be taken as an attack of another's character or argument. :rolleyes:

I think we're done here.

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