why does amd say fglrx NEEDS 32bit?

[Redeeman]

Hey bridgman (or others.)
Why does amd say that fglrx _NEEDS_ multilib and 32bit libs, for the driver to work? im reading a gentoo bug report(because gentoo blocks me installing fglrx on 64bit only profile), stating that they have fglrx masked on pure 64bit, because AMD claims its unsupported and doesent work, without multilib and 32bit libs..

how come? and.. please stop this, its only causing issues for your users..

[bridgman]

I have no idea, have never seen a statement like that from us or anyone else. I have seen various posts saying that you need 32-bit libs to run 32-bit apps, but I think that's common to everyone -- maybe it's something like that ? There also seems to be an issue with 2.6.25 kernel where 64-bit has dropped some tlb-related symbols, however they are still in the 32-bit version; that's another possibility.

http://phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7631

I was not able to find the gentoo bug report you mentioned; any chance you could post a link ?

[Redeeman]

nope, the amd page with fglrx says you need 32bit on a 64bit dist to run the driver.. and this causes gentoo to mask it for non-multilib systems since they dont want to risk unexpected problems with bug reports that could be avoided, since its not an "intended way of running". But this is causing annoying issues for people with no-multilib amd64 and wants fglrx, not to mention all hope of help from gentoo is gone.

http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/l...64-radeon.html
"32-Bit packages must be installed for 64-Bit Linux drivers to install or work."

Bridgman, can you do something about this?

[Redeeman]

http://bugs.gentoo.org/202906
comment 5 and 7.

https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=201253
comment 3 and 8

[Redeeman]

most significantly the comment: "untill upstream says otherwise, it will stay masked", or words to that effect.

[bridgman]

Thanks. Looks like this might be a (well intentioned) over-reaction to a not-sufficiently-clear message on our web site. The issue here does seem to be the one I mentioned above -- running 32-bit apps on a 64-bit system needs our 32-bit GL libs, and those in turn require 32-bit libs in the OS. From the second bug report link :

You only need the 32bit libs if you're running 32bit apps, that use opengl, like wine for example or google earth. If you don't have those, there is no need to install the libs.

The question seems to be whether it is better to mask off fglrx on any gentoo 64-bit system that does not have the 32-bit libs (just in case someone runs a 32-bit app and has problems) or whether it is better to let the fglrx driver install so users who understand the 32/64-bit issues can go ahead but limit themselves to running 64-bit apps.

I don't have a good understanding re: how many of the common Linux apps are available (and used) in 64-bit packages. If it's highly likely that a typical user *is* going to need to run 32-bit apps then maybe requiring a multilib gentoo system is the best option.

Is there anything I'm missing here ? I haven't had much experience playing with 32 vs 64 bit systems yet. Is there maybe a non-obvious downside to including the 32-bit libs ? Until now I figured anyone with a 64-bit system would include them "just in case", so they didn't have to go back and add them later when the inevitable 32-bit-only app showed up.

BTW I wasn't sure how to interpret "upstream" -- is "upstream" AMD in this case ?

[Vash63]

Thanks. Looks like this might be a (well intentioned) over-reaction to a not-sufficiently-clear message on our web site. The issue here does seem to be the one I mentioned above -- running 32-bit apps on a 64-bit system needs our 32-bit GL libs, and those in turn require 32-bit libs in the OS. From the second bug report link :



The question seems to be whether it is better to mask off fglrx on any gentoo 64-bit system that does not have the 32-bit libs (just in case someone runs a 32-bit app and has problems) or whether it is better to let the fglrx driver install so users who understand the 32/64-bit issues can go ahead but limit themselves to running 64-bit apps.

I don't have a good understanding re: how many of the common Linux apps are available (and used) in 64-bit packages. If it's highly likely that a typical user *is* going to need to run 32-bit apps then maybe requiring a multilib gentoo system is the best option.

Is there anything I'm missing here ? I haven't had much experience playing with 32 vs 64 bit systems yet. Is there maybe a non-obvious downside to including the 32-bit libs ? Until now I figured anyone with a 64-bit system would include them "just in case", so they didn't have to go back and add them later when the inevitable 32-bit-only app showed up.

BTW I wasn't sure how to interpret "upstream" -- is "upstream" AMD in this case ?

It's not really a problem in Gentoo, right now I'm running a multilib Gentoo system, but the only 32-bit code is Steam which I'm running under WINE. Every Linux native application was compiled by source from the Paludis package manager, one of the optional package managers in Gentoo, so the only case I'd ever run into a 32-bit application is one where the source isn't available or if it was programmed in assembly like some game emulators. Haven't run into any other issues since Flash 10 finally went 64-bit last year.

[nanonyme]

It's not really a problem in Gentoo, right now I'm running a multilib Gentoo system, but the only 32-bit code is Steam which I'm running under WINE.

This thread was about the profile in which there is no multilib allowed. Everyone's aware that it works fine with most Gentoo systems.

[Vash63]

This thread was about the profile in which there is no multilib allowed. Everyone's aware that it works fine with most Gentoo systems.

I know, that's what I'm talking about too. Multilib isn't really necessary now as pretty much everything can be compiled in 64 bit easily.

[Redeeman]

you misunderstand what i say.. there apparently are absolutely no problems with the fglrx packaging, only that because that amd page says the driver package requires 32bit libs to function, gentoo is masking the package on pure 64bit install..

everyone using gentoo 64bit no-multilib (aka pure 64bit) are fully aware that 32bit apps will require 32bit libs, which wont be available via the package system, aka they must manage it themselves..

The only thing we(me, and fglrx users with gentoo amd64 no-mutlilib) needs is that you alter this message to say soemthing about "32bit emulation libs required for running 32bit applications", or perhaps just removing it alltogether, since its somewhat obvious..

You are right, this is an overreaction on gentoo's part, but the fglrx maintainer in gentoo seems determined to closely observe any "rules" amd puts down.

And yes, the upstream in this case is AMD