LGP Introduces Linux Game Copy Protection

[muep]

I know this. You know this. You won't even have me argue the point (I was arguing this same discussion with Michael Simms back three years ago...)- I wholeheartedly agree with you.

The problem is, if you want to convince a publisher that it's going to "be okay" to do this, you either have to show them you don't have a piracy problem or sufficient numbers that it's less of a concern.

The biggest problem is not LGP. It's not even close.

How many people gave out reasons for pirating the stuff in just TODAY alone? How many people OPENLY ADMITTED that they didn't pay for it and played it all the same??

I don't agree with this at all- DRM of any kind is bad mojo. Honest.

Unfortunately, we, as a group, even on THIS forum, just mouthed off in a manner that would doom any desire, any plans for ANY title out of any of the mainline publishers, giving them all kinds of credence to insist upon DRM if it were to remotely be considered.

I think I understand the situation you are in. You need to appease two audiences with very high and conflicting demands. I am sure it is not an easy situation to be in, and everyone should take a moment thinking about it.

Too bad that the result of this cooperation between you and the bigger game companies doesn't result in good results. The current outcome isn't really an improvement over a game that happens to run well in Wine. (I could use the Sacred Gold copy for Windows without buying it a second time, and with a less disrupting copyright enforcement mechanism.)

[Xipeos]

OPENLY stated that he played without paying on not one but two different titles- ostensibly because they "weren't worth buying".

Whoa... you're getting the wrong idea.. I love those games and they're worth every penny. I would buy them if I had the possibility, and will buy them when I have my own income.

Furthermore, I doubt going to a friend and playing a game is a crime. just throwing that there..

[Licaon]

What will happen if let's say the LGP's servers are turned off and the activation system will never be available again? Linux game publishing isn't very lucrative I imagine. Would this mean any not already activated installed copy of the game will never be playable, too?

This is Bioshock deja-vu

i for one can't really understand why copy protections are still forced upon users, as long as the full game + crack are made available by crackers anyway, does any publisher have any reliable study that shows how a 1 week delay influenced any sales ?

piracy has been here as long as copy protections were available, and piracy won't kill PC gaming, as piracy is spread onto consoles as well, piracy might be a problem, yet gaming industry ( gaming is art...is industry...riggght? ) has thrived in the last years, i don't see any gaming Dev's getting different jobs.

"It tanked on Windows..."

heh...did i release that as CC ?
anyway i just hope that the piracy issue won't become another scapegoat for LGP, like Titan Quest/UT3 and others used to cover their bad games ( read "bad" as not interesting enough or something )

will i pirate Sacred? no, i did not pirate it for Windows
will i buy Sacred? prabably no, i did not buy it for Windows, i played the Demo and did not like it enough
will it be a Linux Demo? if yes, i'll play it anyway just because it's a Linux game Demo

[Svartalf]

Whoa... you're getting the wrong idea.. I love those games and they're worth every penny. I would buy them if I had the possibility, and will buy them when I have my own income.

Furthermore, I doubt going to a friend and playing a game is a crime. just throwing that there..

Anyone making the remark you made would have had the reader unfortunately going there. No harm done in your case.

God...this whole discussion...I feel really, really old today.

[stan.distortion]

True about PC software being cracked as soon as copy protection existed, and probably has a lot to do with the heavy focus on console game development at the mo (and I have yet to try a port of a console game that is worth playing).
ETQW has no copy protection whatsoever until you go to play it online. I bought that game after playing the demo in single player and would have been quite happy to spend a week or two playing all the maps in single player. 'Course, tried it online (all of 20 seconds to enter the code and never a whisper from it since) and was well and truly hooked.
Big kudos to ID, right from the very start they handed out doom for free (I happily paid for 6 copies of it in total), now I find they have more or less said "take it if you want it, just stay off the servers" with ETQW (happily bought and paid for) so when 'Raid' comes out I will resist playing the demo to save the anticipation for the (bought and paid for) full game. Which will probably have little or no C-P.
Quality counts and I for one am happy to put my money where my mouth is. Now to confess that I too DL'd a copy of X2. The reason? I'm a freetard scumbag? No (well...), because the demo had sound and graphics issues. I would have been happy to pay the slightly over the top price but it turned out the game had the same issues plus a couple more with the controls. After a full day of trying to sort these out it got wiped from the PC. If X3's demo (if there is one) works without issue then my credit card will take a hit, if not... I wont be able to check so will give it a miss and wait with baited breath for ID's next project.
cheers

[Svartalf]

heh...did i release that as CC ?

ROFLMAO! You DID run it up the flagpole, Liacon...

And it's not being used to beat you up with- I've seen it elsewhere which is why I brought it back up from the grave.

anyway i just hope that the piracy issue won't become another scapegoat for LGP, like Titan Quest/UT3 and others used to cover their
bad games ( read "bad" as not interesting enough or something )

Careful with the "bad" there. I'm beginning to consider certain Windows/Console titles as "bad" because they're not worth playing (More eyecandy than really fun gameplay...), but there's an "Abandon all hope" thread for the Linux version for the game because of it's delay, now nearly 8 months now. As for the piracy issue, it's a real one, unfortunately. Moreover, it's one of the bugaboos for the work in obtaining porting rights, believe it or not.

Why we have the problems we have- you already know that; we've hashed that out in length in the thread where you issued that infamous remark.

will i pirate Sacred? no, i did not pirate it for Windows
will i buy Sacred? prabably no, i did not buy it for Windows, i played the Demo and did not like it enough
will it be a Linux Demo? if yes, i'll play it anyway just because it's a Linux game Demo

Yanno... That's the best comment from someone that might not buy the game in this thread so far...

[Redeeman]

In this thread, there have been at least 2-3 hinted at acts of infringement. One poster OPENLY stated that he played without paying on not one but two different titles- ostensibly because they "weren't worth buying". Well, that's the excuse MOST of the Windows pirates have...

i hope you do not consider my statement as a "hinted act of infringement".

Do you for a moment think they're going to think they're going to see any money whatsoever from the community when they read all of this stuff and all the stuff in the other areas on the subject of ported titles?

If you do, you're sadly mistaken.

so because people suddenly claim they wont buy, because they are for all practical purposes, being treated as criminals, that means people do not wish to buy? this is what stupid moron CEO's think, and thats because they are unintelligent morons which quite frankly, shouldnt be allowed to roam free without extended observation..

If you don't agree with the DRM, just don't buy. Quickest way to send a message, really. Don't comment on playing without paying or buying and then breaking the DRM- either just contributes to the same crap you're claiming you're against. All you people are doing when you do this is fueling the fire. No different than the crap that RIAA and MPAA have been doing for some time now. And all the idiots kept doing is feeding the fire with flash naptha instead of just walking away. You're NOT entitled to anything.

buying and breaking DRM is perfectly legal most places, i see nothing wrong with it, and neither does the LAW most places.. If stupid title owners or publishers or whatever it is, thinks this is a message of "oooh no a bunch of freeloaders taht wont buy?!?!!? just because we openly call them criminals and put them in a bad light?!?! OHOHH THE HUMANITY", welll, then its them that are stupid, not us..

And btw, i do not pirate software.. I have however on atleast one occasion purchased a piece of software, and (LEGALLY, thats right, LEGALLY!) broken copy protection to be able to use it fairly.


if DRM really were able to stop piracy, then i could understand the wish from content producers to employ it, but as it stands now, it doesent help them one bit, in fact, ill bet good money, that DRM for the various things current, for instance dvd, bluray, hddvd, games, has COST more than it has gained them..

But even if DRM helped, it would still be wrong to apply it this way, as you are practically accusing people of being "pirates".


And lastly, i also agree that mailorder for games today is completely insane, and NOT the way to make money.. its like the record industry, trying to force a 10 year obsoleted distribution method upon the world.. its bound to be a failure..

I want to see some screenshots and a big honking button saying "visa", and then afterwards, a big honking "DOWNLOAD" button.

[grigi]

Woa! Now, I'm definitely going to get Sacred, and I want X2 & X3 too. The price DOES get to me, but I understand that supporting the small guys IS important too. The only LGP game I currently have is Cold War (A surprisingly good title). The copy protection does not bother me. I personally think that it DOES help, but more advanced versions of DRM does not, IMHO. I'd prefer a system where you attach the key to your "LGP Account", per say.

Instead of just this... half-account business, I ask that we get an option at a full account, kind of like a Steam account.

I also find it profound that so many people are ... advocating piracy. I mean? HELLOOO?

The problem comes in... I'm afraid to put money down for those games, because I don't know if they actually WILL come out? Are there really so many X3 special edition copies still available? according to tuxgames they are all sold out?

Also regarding buying Linux games... I came across tuxgames by following a link from this site, so as an ordinary Linux user I would not even know where to buy the stuff.

[Licaon]

God...this whole discussion...I feel really, really old today.

that "i don't have the money" slogan is so bulls******
come on, they've got enough money to buy hardware for Crysis ( you'll need a 400$ video card, and that's just a piece of the computer ), but you can't raise ( from your launch money, parents ) 40$ for a game every 3 months or so, and games worth buying aren't even released that often

[Svartalf]

I think I understand the situation you are in. You need to appease two audiences with very high and conflicting demands. I am sure it is not an easy situation to be in, and everyone should take a moment thinking about it.

Thank you for a reasoned remark.

You see right to the point here on this. The whole situation makes me sick, the truth be known. But I can see Michael's and the other publisher's viewpoint and while I'm good at reconciling things (as is Michael Simms, really) I can't quite fix the problem without help from both sides- and neither seem to want to work with us on this.

Too bad that the result of this cooperation between you and the bigger game companies doesn't result in good results. The current outcome isn't really an improvement over a game that happens to run well in Wine. (I could use the Sacred Gold copy for Windows without buying it a second time, and with a less disrupting copyright enforcement mechanism.)

You need to get the publisher of Sacred and Ascaron to see it in a bit of a differing light.

I would dearly love nothing better than to collect just the base royalties needed plus proceeds sufficent to cover a bit of money going to operational costs (namely network support for LGP, money to people like me in the teams, etc...) and let you buy the installer at rock-bottom cost and use your old media. Unfortunately, there would always be someone cheating a bit in the mix if you think about it a bit. Which is why, while it makes perfect sense to US, would give them the willies and it's not quite likely to happen.

As for being no different than WINE, heh... I'd beg to differ with it. It's in-between a non-DRMed native version and an okay running version of the Windows title in WINE. Moreover, it offers a sales figure point for Linux- and if enough people sign off on it, we can be in a better position to do something a little less obnoxious or more appealing the next pass around.