KDE 4.1 Beta 2 Released

[Kano]

Did you notice that KDE4 is not in sid but in experimental? I don't think that too many users are trying it with Debian yet. The better/newer packages are for Kubuntu usually.

[d2kx]

I didn't notice that MANY packages from KDE4 do not even have a bug report page of their own.

If you don't how Debian works, don't comment. Debian/experimental is not a distribution and therefore does not allow bug reporting, because these packages are really for experienced testers only.

So we assume that NO bugs have been found in the KDE4 version of the package.

We assume that it is too early to install them and to report bugs. If a software is not finished yet, you have to report bugs to upstream, not to Debian.

The comment above makes it clear that Debian is LYING when it says that large numbers of bugs are keeping KDE4 out of the Lenny release at the end of the year.

No. Lenny is up to date. It is frozen now and uses the latest KDE version for desktop users: 3.5.9. Why didn't you upload the final KDE 4.1 packages some weeks ago, before the freeze began? They could have tested them for stability then. Oh wait - KDE 4.1 is still under development.

You mean that Debian doesn't even try to fix real bugs,... just packaging bugs,.... then there is absolutely no excuse from why Debian is so often soooooo out of date,.... except that they just want to be out of date,....

Debian fixes real bugs. If someone reports a bug related to KDE that is not related to the Debian packages, then the Debian package maintainer (Debian KDE-Team [or the DEBIAN KDE SABOTEURS if you wish]) forward that reported bug to the KDE bug tracking system. Oh, and Debian is not out of date. Name ten out of the 10000+ packages that are out of date, please:

http://packages.debian.org/sid/allpackages (do you find any? - and remember that the freeze already has begun)

[NeoBrain]

http://packages.debian.org/sid/allpackages (do you find any? - and remember that the freeze already has began)

Yeah, you're right I can't find any.
The page doesn't even load for me

[Jade]

We assume that it is too early to install them and to report bugs.

WRONG. Are you writing this just to give the appearance of,... no problems?

Why did you ignore all the pages that are already available for KDE4 bugs,... let me repeat them for you:

KDE4 bugs according to Debian:

(0 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgre...;dist=unstable
(0 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgre...;dist=unstable
(0 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgre...;dist=unstable
(1 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgre...;dist=unstable (KDE4 bug)
(2 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgre...;dist=unstable (KDE4 bugs)
(1 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgre...;dist=unstable (KDE4 bug)
(3 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgre...;dist=unstable (KDE4 bugs)
(0 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgre...;dist=unstable
(0 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgre...;dist=unstable

There are actually 7 bugs. These are all the bugs that Debian knows about for KDE4.

So basically Debian can't even list the KDE4 bugs that they claim keep KDE4 from making it into Lenny.

You know,... that is not a good look,....

Not a good look at all.

If a software is not finished yet, you have to report bugs to upstream, not to Debian.

So on the 11th January 2008 when KDE 4.0 was released (as finished) by the KDE people, how many bad bugs were still too be fixed? How many bad bugs did the Debian people find that the KDE people didn't?

Zero,.... right?

[Vadi]

What are you talking about?

There is no KDE 4 end-user version. Nada, it does not exist. No normal users are supposed to be using KDE 4.

KDE 3 is included, so where is the problem?

Read above, and if you're the developer that KDE 4 is currently available to, you can surely compile it from scratch with ease.

[Jade]

So does anyone else think that Debian's actions regarding KDE4 look very very suspicious?

[borgus]

So does anyone else think that Debian's actions regarding KDE4 look very very suspicious?

Not at all. If anything, Fedora's actions are. Not even including KDE 3.5 as an option (in Fedora 9) when KDE4 isn't even close to ready for everyday use yet is about as sure a way possible to turn people off of KDE. With the possible exception of openSUSE, which puts a lot of work into making its KDE4 more polished than other distro's, no distribution has any business making KDE4 the default yet; KDE 3.5.9 is stable, usable, and polished in its default state and is in no danger of being obsoleted just because KDE4 is out.

From what it sounds like, KDE4 will appear in Sid (as an option doubtless, not the only KDE) a few days after Lenny is released, to eventually become part of whatever Lenny's successor is. And it's already in Experimental for those who really like to live on the edge. I see no problem at all.

[Jade]

I disagree. The fact that Red Hat/Fedora is worse does not change anything.

KDE4 does not have to obsolete KDE 3.5.9.

In the past two version of KDE have been offered and you can choose either. Although in the past eg KDE 3 would run all the KDE 2 apps so there was no demand for KDE2 to stick around.

Debian still has the QT2 libraries for older apps. Similarly, it now should have QT2, QT3 and QT4.

Debian is meant to be about setting up and packaging such arrangements.

So nothing you have said changes the fact that it appears that Debian can't even list the KDE4 bugs that they claim keep KDE4 from making it into Lenny.

[jensz]

My apologies for bumping an old thread, but some if these accusations are simply absurd.

The Default CD1 Desktop is based on package popularity and only aimed at newbies (only one app for every task). Full/stock GNOME is pulled by a different dummy package. No politics involved at all.

Shipping both KDE3 and KDE4 was never an option. Debian simply hasn't enough people to maintain/patch/secure this following all quality guidelines/rules that come with "stable".

KDE isn't just QT (and most QT4 run libs are already included).

KDE4.0 was incomplete. (resulting in missing dependencies when upgrading from Etch)
Not all architectures are already supported either.

KDE4.1 is still (even today) in "experimental".
Debian doesn't (and never did) accept bug reports against packages in experimental.

PS: If you really care about new (buggy) software, use testing/unstable or backports.
Stable is meant to be rock solid and can't afford such risks.

[RealNC]

The problem with Debian unstable is that it crashes every few hours while unstable branches/repositories of other distros are running just fine.

Debian unstable (and testing too!) are more or less bugged like hell.