Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 40

Thread: KDE 4.1 Beta 2 Released

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    6,622

    Default

    There is of course a way to install KDE desktops with Debian - there are also KDE install iso images but I would just install my distro: KANOTIX - already optimized in serveral things, backports added where needed/useful and of course using KDE - currently 3.5.5, but that will change later.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    2,132

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jade
    It is obvious to anyone with eyes that KDE has always been unnecessarily been delayed.

    Debian tries to force GNOME upon you. GNOME is the default.

    It is much more difficult to install KDE than GNOME.

    Debian consciously hinders KDE uptake.
    No/No/No/No. I'd say it is easier to install KDE than Gnome. There are KDE CD's for KDE, and there is CD1 out of dozens which contains Gnome (some people don't know that). KDE installs fine, Gnome needs to download many packages during installation. Gnome is always broken in the development version (Sid), KDE always works fine. Once there is a new KDE version, it will be uploaded to Sid as fast as possible (day 1 most of the time), Gnome always needs time.

    The same pathetic excuse was used every time. WINE is not stable enough to be in TESTING.
    You should read about the way Debian works. Testing is not a distribution to work with. Testing is automated, it gets the packages which are working on all architecturs and do not have open bugs on Sid. Sid is usable for advanced users. Wine is always the latest version in there.

    They decided not to include KDE 4,... no surprise there.
    You're right, it's no surprise. KDE 4.x still has some bugs and Lenny is already in a freeze state, and Debian/stable has to be really, really stable. No one knows how KDE 4.1 will perform when it's done, but Debian wants software that is tested for some time now.
    Last edited by d2kx; 06-26-2008 at 11:24 AM.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Third Rock from the Sun
    Posts
    6,583

    Default

    The biggest thing I'm looking forward to is getting KDE 4 to run fine in XP64. Sounds sick, I know, but it would make my windows sessions more bearable.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    11

    Default

    I applaud Debian for not including KDE4 in Lenny. Fedora's neglect of KDE was obvious, and now that they're trying to rectify it, it gives a new meaning to unstable (bleeding-edge distros should be the last to go KDE4-only). Even Mandriva's KDE4, while polished, seems somewhat iffy. Only openSUSE's KDE4 seems usable at all, and even there, KDE3 is much more usable on a day-to-day basis.

    Unless one is using it for development purposes, KDE3 makes far more sense to run right now. It is much more user-friendly and less buggy. From what I have seen KDE 4.1 will be a good step forward on the usability and stability front, but I'm guessing it will be KDE 4.2 when it really comes into its own and is worth switching to from KDE3.

    In terms of running KDE at all, Debian's KDE is among the most pleasant, and as easy as 'aptitude install kde' to get even if you don't use the KDE CD1 (I did the net-install).

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    353

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by d2kx
    I'd say it is easier to install KDE than Gnome.
    That would be a sad indictment on the state of Debian since it is not that easy to install KDE.

    First, very few people new to Debian, even find out there is a KDE CD.

    One of the "accidental" acts of sabotage is to not include synaptic (a user friendly apt) on the KDE CD.

    This means that any new user installing from the CD will give up (if they got this far) at the point of installing software not on the CD.

    By the way the Debian installer has been flawed and buggy for years but Debian always insisted on releasing it with bugs.

    Quote Originally Posted by d2kx
    Gnome is always broken in the development version
    So what you are saying is that Gnome ships (in Sid (what about Lenny?)) with loads of bugs.

    Quote Originally Posted by d2kx
    Quote Originally Posted by Jade
    They decided not to include KDE 4,... no surprise there.
    You're right, it's no surprise. KDE 4.x still has some bugs
    So what you are saying is that KDE 4 will NOT ship (in Sid and Lenny) if it has a few bugs.

    But remember,... there is supposedly no bias against KDE.
    Last edited by Jade; 06-26-2008 at 08:31 PM.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    112

    Default

    That would be a sad indictment on the state of Debian since it is not that easy to install KDE.
    That is pure fiction, it IS that easy. Download ANY Debian install CD (even the CD1 with GNOME or Xfce) and (assuming network access during the install) you can enter "desktop=kde" at the first prompt that comes up when you boot the CD, and VOILA! KDE gets installed if you choose the Desktop role during the installation procedure. If you can't get network access during the installation, you use one of the alternate CD1's (there are 2, one with KDE, one with XFCE), or use a DVD which contains both KDE and GNOME (and probably XFCE too). With the DVD you must use the desktop=kde or desktop=xfce options, because GNOME is still the default (OH NOES!!!). Also, when you are presented with the prompt to enter that option(and/or others), there's help text on the screen explaining to press F1 (I think it's F1) for help docs which cover a slew of options, including the desktop= one. So even if one couldn't be bothered to look up debian-installer boot flags in the manual/howto, or to look for an alternate CD1, they can still learn about the options just by booting whatever CD they did download and burn. That said, those who can't even be bothered to read up on the installation procedure/options should probably consider running Ubuntu or something.

    By the way the Debian installer has been flawed and buggy for years but Debian always insisted on releasing it with bugs.
    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/
    To install Debian testing, we recommend you use the lenny beta2 release of the installer, after checking its errata.
    I don't think I've ever used anything but testing releases of debian-installer, and I have never had any issues. Any bugs that may have been present have never affected my experience. They clearly suggest you read the errata before installing the testing branch, and I don't even need to look up Debian procedure to know that for stable releases (like Etch, and in September if things go well, Lenny), debian-installer will not be released with bugs (certainly not enough bugs to warrant a description like "flawed and buggy"). I tried to install RC1 of Ubuntu Hardy a while back. The install failed because grub wouldn't install to hda6, and on top of that glaring error, Ubiquity wouldn't let me put /home on a separate partition. All the times I've used testing releases of debian-installer, I have never had any issues installing grub somewhere other than hda1/sda1, nor any issues with mounting separate partitions for /home and /usr. debian-installer rocks, period.

    Synaptic is not included in the default KDE install because it's a GTK application. With KDE you get Adept and Kpackage (not to mention aptitude itself). You're perfectly welcome to run "aptitude install synaptic" if you so choose. Just like you're perfectly welcome to install KDE4 RIGHT NOW out of experimental. If you did you wouldn't be complaining about KDE4 not being included in Lenny because - perish the thought - it's just not ready yet, and it wasn't ready in time for Lenny's release schedule.
    there is no bias against KDE.
    There, fixed that for you. Maybe you should read up on how Debian works before you go making accusations about it being biased one way or the other. You're saying because Debian hasn't abandoned the procedures it's based on just so it can include KDE4 before it's really ready for prime-time, Debian's biased against KDE. As I said before, BONKERS.

    Pretty much everything is SID has bugs. They also call it UNSTABLE eh. When those bugs have been wittled down to the point where a package meets the release criteria, and has lived in SID for 10 days in that state, it gets moved into testing. Every so often, testing becomes the next Debian stable (with ZERO bugs for every package being the criteria for stable IIRC). KDE4 simply doesn't currently meet the criteria for a Debian stable release.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    353

    Default

    The following makes it clear that Debian is LYING when it says that large numbers of bugs are keeping KDE4 out of the Lenny release at the end of the year.

    Yes Debian is LYING.

    KDE4 bugs according to Debian:

    (0 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgre...;dist=unstable
    (0 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgre...;dist=unstable
    (0 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgre...;dist=unstable
    (1 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgre...;dist=unstable
    (2 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgre...;dist=unstable
    (1 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgre...;dist=unstable
    (3 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgre...;dist=unstable
    (0 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgre...;dist=unstable
    (0 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgre...;dist=unstable

    The following packages from KDE4 do not even have a bug report page of their own.
    The following packages from KDE4 link to the bug report of version 3.5.9-1 in unstable
    The bug report link on the KDE4 packages page redirects you to the bug report of version 3.5.9-1,....

    So we assume that NO bugs have been found in the KDE4 version of the package.

    http://packages.debian.org/experimental/kdeartwork (KDE4)
    links to http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgre...;dist=unstable
    http://packages.debian.org/experimental/kdeedu (KDE4)
    links to http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgre...;dist=unstable
    http://packages.debian.org/experimental/kdegames (KDE4)
    links to http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgre...;dist=unstable
    http://packages.debian.org/experimental/kdeadmin (KDE4)
    links to http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgre...;dist=unstable
    http://packages.debian.org/experimental/kdegraphics (KDE4)
    links to http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgre...;dist=unstable
    http://packages.debian.org/experimental/kdemultimedia (KDE4)
    links to http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgre...;dist=unstable
    http://packages.debian.org/experimental/kdenetwork (KDE4)
    links to http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgre...;dist=unstable
    http://packages.debian.org/experimental/kdepim (KDE4)
    links to http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgre...;dist=unstable
    http://packages.debian.org/experimental/kdeutils (KDE4)
    links to http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgre...;dist=unstable

    So a total of SEVEN KDE4 bugs are known to (ie recorded by) Debian :

    THESE 7 BUGS APPARENTLY KEEP KDE4 OUT OF LENNY.


    KDE4 only exists in experimental. Hence the links to the experimental branch.

    Gnome bugs according to Debian:

    (21 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgre...e;dist=testing
    (9 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgre...t;dist=testing
    (28 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgre...s;dist=testing
    (5 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgre...e;dist=testing
    (4 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgre...s;dist=testing
    (4 bugs) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgre...s;dist=testing

    At this point we have 71 bugs from just these few gnome packages from Lenny (testing).

    Testing will be released as Lenny later in the year.

    These 71 bugs will NOT keep gnome from being released in Lenny.

    How the 7 bugs reported by Debian in KDE4 will keep KDE4 out of lenny.


    Gnome will be in Lenny because in just a few of its packages Debian reports 71 bugs.
    KDE4 will NOT be in Lenny because in all of its packages Debian reports 7 bugs.

    But remember,... there is (supposedly) no bias against KDE.
    Last edited by Jade; 06-27-2008 at 10:11 PM.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    677

    Default

    What are you talking about?

    There is no KDE 4 end-user version. Nada, it does not exist. No normal users are supposed to be using KDE 4.

    KDE 3 is included, so where is the problem?

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    2,132

    Default

    What the hell are you doing there, Jade?

    You're posting bugreports from some projects that do not belong to KDE and the bugreports of KDE 3.5.9 from Sid, not a single KDE4 bug report. Furthermore, you're posting only a few of the many Gnome packages and this time you are using the bug reports from testing instead of Sid? And on top of that, we are talking about upstream bugs, not packaging related bugs which most of the Debian bug reports are.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    353

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by d2kx View Post
    What the hell are you doing there, Jade?
    I didn't notice that MANY packages from KDE4 do not even have a bug report page of their own.

    The bug report link on the packages page redirects you to the bug report of version 3.5.9-1,....

    So we assume that NO bugs have been found in the KDE4 version of the package.

    The comment above makes it clear that Debian is LYING when it says that large numbers of bugs are keeping KDE4 out of the Lenny release at the end of the year.

    "And on top of that, we are talking about upstream bugs, not packaging related bugs which most of the Debian bug reports are."

    You mean that Debian doesn't even try to fix real bugs,... just packaging bugs,.... then there is absolutely no excuse from why Debian is so often soooooo out of date,.... except that they just want to be out of date,....
    Last edited by Jade; 06-27-2008 at 10:18 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •