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Thread: Future of my support for ATI

  1. #21
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    How do you count market share? After all, a LOT of linux browsers will lie about what OS they run on, and even what browser they are. It just simplifies things: say you are IE on Windows, and most sites will let you in, say you are Epiphany on Linux, and some sites will respond with "Your browser/OS is not supported".

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbmorse View Post
    They don't buy video cards, either.
    Still they raise the figure of Linux users quite a bit. And after all I know many people that would love to ditch Windows and use Linux if the major players ( looks sharp at ATI and company ) would support this OS. Linux has only gained slowely momentum because of the stubborn companies trying to keep it low on the radar instead of giving it a boost. Linux itself is more than capable to propel forward if you would not put a huge iron ball on a chain on its legs.

  3. #23
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    Hold on, how exactly did we become the bad guys again ? Do you really believe there is some kind of deliberate attempt to sabotage Linux, or are you just upset because we are only investing 3-4x what the Linux market share can justify rather than 10-20x ?

    If ATI graphics were the only thing holding Linux back, it would have taken off without us already. Between Intel and NVidia that would have covered enough of the market requirements and the lack of ATI graphics support would not have been a problem. I really think you are missing the point if you try to blame Linux market share on ATI graphics support over the last few years.
    Last edited by bridgman; 07-31-2008 at 07:34 PM.

  4. #24
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    AMD's support is probably about all they currently feel they can justify. It's just a business decision based on marketing data and also on the effort involved. Look at how many Windows users there are and how frequently they have to update drivers. Compare that to how many variables involved with linux: distribution, version, packaging, nomenclature, location of kernel headers, other software (and their versions, packaging...). Linux with regards to a graphics architecture is going to have to unify a bit more to make it more attractive to AMD, or S3, or even intel to make that kind of an investment. And in case you all haven't read AMDs quarterly reports lately they do not have money to throw around.

    Something the software folks for linux could do is start coming up with better 3d games and even resurrecting the old ones. I played duke3d again using the eduke package on the IGP HD3200. It was a blast. Still one of the best games because of the content and not the graphic quality.

    The games will lead to interest which will lead to better support and products which wil lead to better games. If all you want is office apps you don't need any of these more expensive graphics cards.

    So instead of threatening AMD to abandon their products for not throwing huge capital at supporting a widely variable architecture, we should help them out by submitting useful responses to the driver updates as well as helping folks out who are trying to make common game architectures for single player shooters and the multiple player games over the net.

  5. #25
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    That's true only if you play games. I don't.

    Is the PC gaming audience still large enough to drive a market, anymore? If it still is, will that continue to be the case for the forseeable future?

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by forum1793 View Post
    AMD's support is probably about all they currently feel they can justify. It's just a business decision based on marketing data and also on the effort involved. Look at how many Windows users there are and how frequently they have to update drivers. Compare that to how many variables involved with linux: distribution, version, packaging, nomenclature, location of kernel headers, other software (and their versions, packaging...). Linux with regards to a graphics architecture is going to have to unify a bit more to make it more attractive to AMD, or S3, or even intel to make that kind of an investment. And in case you all haven't read AMDs quarterly reports lately they do not have money to throw around.

    Something the software folks for linux could do is start coming up with better 3d games and even resurrecting the old ones. I played duke3d again using the eduke package on the IGP HD3200. It was a blast. Still one of the best games because of the content and not the graphic quality.

    The games will lead to interest which will lead to better support and products which wil lead to better games. If all you want is office apps you don't need any of these more expensive graphics cards.

    So instead of threatening AMD to abandon their products for not throwing huge capital at supporting a widely variable architecture, we should help them out by submitting useful responses to the driver updates as well as helping folks out who are trying to make common game architectures for single player shooters and the multiple player games over the net.

    The problem is that the numbers that are being carelessly thrown around are completely wrong. 0.6%??? Sorry, but that isnt even close. Where did these numbers come from? What web site where they collected from? What softwrae collected them? How was that data validated? What company was responsible for collection? And what 3rd party validated it?

    None of these questions have been answed, and none of them ever will be. Was it collected from Phoronix.com? If so then the numbers will be massively skewed towards Linux. Was it collected from AMD.com? If so then the numbers will be massivelt skewed towards windows becosue Linux users get there drivers from the distribution. Not to mention that many local repair shops often go to the same site many times in one day. And those are all windows based.

    Basically what I'm saying is that the only numbers your going to get will be massively skewed one way or the other. If your looking at Phoronix, it'll be skewed towards Linux. If your looking at AMD.com, it'll be skewed towards windows. If your looking at mac.com, it'll be skewed towards OSX.

    And if your just looking at the internet as a whole, it'll still be skewed towards windows due to places like computer repair shops, and browser bots, and malware. Shit like that.

    My best guess right now is that Linux is somewhere between 3% to 5%

  7. #27
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    @bridgman:
    It's not ATI/AMD in particular or alone. It's a general way of thinking with various hardware vendors and software producers that Linux is not worth the time. What does it help us users if we want a Linux PC but we have to check forums first to see if hardware XYZ works because the vendors refuse to make Linux drivers ( or rather bad ones ). So it's not an attack against ATI/AMD just one of the major problems holding Linux back.

    @forum1793:
    This is why I'm doing a Game Engine and a Game geared for Linux. I'm not your daily forum troll who just moans about what is going shit. I'm one of those guys moaning about what is going shit AND doing something about it. This is why I take the liberty to speak up a bit more harsh than others might
    Last edited by Dragonlord; 07-31-2008 at 08:24 PM.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by duby229 View Post
    My best guess right now is that Linux is somewhere between 3% to 5%
    Based upon...?

    I pretty much agree with your point that numbers are hard to come by, and most of what is available is deeply suspect, but your 3 to 5 % is way higher than everything else I've seen from anywhere, suspect or not. Gartner and Forrester Research (who have their own axes to grind on the subject of O/S marketshare) both put Linux at less that 1%. Granted, their numbers are based largely on corporate seats, but in the real world(tm) that's still the largest market segment and where AMD/ATI looses less money than it does dinking with those pesky consumers.

    The numbers I've been looking at are U.S.-centric so it's possible there is higher penetration in Europe.
    Last edited by rbmorse; 07-31-2008 at 09:26 PM.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbmorse View Post
    Based upon...?

    I pretty much agree with your point that numbers are hard to come by, and most of what is available is deeply suspect, but your 3 to 5 % is way higher than everything else I've seen from anywhere, suspect or not. Gartner and Forrester Research (who have their own axes to grind on the subject of O/S marketshare) both put Linux at less that 1%. Granted, their numbers are based largely on corporate seats, but in the real world(tm) that's still the largest market segment and where AMD/ATI looses less money than it does dinking with those pesky consumers.

    The numbers I've been looking at are U.S.-centric so it's possible there is higher penetration in Europe.
    It's just a rough guess. I really dont have any hard facts, nobody does but based solely on american markets is the wrong way to throw numbers out there. Theer are two different numbers you have to look at...

    1: Market share as in percentage of people using the product, and 2: market share as in percentage of sales. If your talking about sales then I might just agree that it is far less then 1% of the market... The problem is that these numbers dont tell you howe many people are actually using linux though.Look at Germany, or Poland, or Russia.... The list goes on and on and on. I'd be willing to bet my left nut that these nations have far more linux users then windows, and almost none of them paid for it.

    Then you have to consider emerging markets like China, or India.. Again it seems far more likely thesee folks are running primarily Linux, not windows, and most of them probably didnt pay one red cent for it.

    Anyhow in either case ATi doesnt have to worry. Whether these folks payed for there OS or not doesnt really matter. They have ATi hardware which was in fact paid for by someone at some point. ATi ia still profiting from these folks in either case. It is there duty to provide drivers for legitimate hardware that was paid for.
    Last edited by duby229; 07-31-2008 at 09:40 PM.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by duby229 View Post
    Then you have to consider emerging markets like China, or India.. Again it seems far more likely thesee folks are running primarily Linux, not windows, and most of them probably didnt pay one red cent for it.
    I've been to China. And Hong Kong. And Singapore. And Riyadh. and Dubai. Everybody is running Windows. And they didn't pay one red cent for it.

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