What about OpenGL 3.0?

[Heiko]

Now there are rumours about nVidia's "Big Bang II" might have something to do with OpenGL 3.0 (however, I doubt this) and maybe OpenGL 3.0 will finaly be born soon (I hope so). Will OpenGL 3.0 be supported in Linux on AMD/Ati graphics cards soon after the release of the final specs? As I understand OpenGL 3.0 needs the same hardware as OpenGL 2.1 does, so that would only mean new drivers.

Or is it even the case that OpenGL code is shared in the Windows driver and the Linux driver (in that case I guess we should see OpenGL 3.0 support at nearly the same time on both platforms). Maybe bridgman can tell something more about this?

I'm curious because I like doing some OpenGL programming in my spare time and I would like starting developing OpenGL 3.0 as soon as 'it is finished' on my Linux HD4870 pc .

[ivanovic]

Now there are rumours about nVidia's "Big Bang II" might have something to do with OpenGL 3.0 (however, I doubt this) and maybe OpenGL 3.0 will finaly be born soon (I hope so). Will OpenGL 3.0 be supported in Linux on AMD/Ati graphics cards soon after the release of the final specs? As I understand OpenGL 3.0 needs the same hardware as OpenGL 2.1 does, so that would only mean new drivers.

From what I heard it is planned to be presented at siggraph '08. It starts in 10 days, so I expect the OpenGL 3.0 specs to be out in two weeks.

Or is it even the case that OpenGL code is shared in the Windows driver and the Linux driver (in that case I guess we should see OpenGL 3.0 support at nearly the same time on both platforms). Maybe bridgman can tell something more about this?

Yes, Windows and Linux drivers do share the same OpenGL backend.

I don't know how long AMD/ATI will need to add support for OpenGL 3.0 in their drivers, but I would not be too surprised if it happened rather fast since they were involved in the specs part, too (just as nVidia was).

If you are looking for OpenGL 3.0 support with open drivers:
It will take "a little" longer. That is mesa is still at OpenGL 1.5 and won't switch to anything higher this soon. That is: It will switch to a higher OpenGL version when gallium is ready, no idea how long this will take.

[pierreb]

As I understand OpenGL 3.0 needs the same hardware as OpenGL 2.1 does, so that would only mean new drivers.

actually, several of the features in OpenGL 3.0 require to have a DirectX 10 compatible HW, so not all current HW will support the new specification, and will stay at the 2.1 level.

Pierre B.

[Heiko]

actually, several of the features in OpenGL 3.0 require to have a DirectX 10 compatible HW, so not all current HW will support the new specification, and will stay at the 2.1 level.

Pierre B.

Did they change that? I thought the plan about OpenGL 3 initially was to be a new api (more consistent and easier in developping) for OpenGL 2.1, so with the same features.

[pierreb]

Did they change that? I thought the plan about OpenGL 3 initially was to be a new api (more consistent and easier in developping) for OpenGL 2.1, so with the same features.

you will know more about the exact feature set at SigGraph, but yes, that has changed.

Pierre B.

[ivanovic]

actually, several of the features in OpenGL 3.0 require to have a DirectX 10 compatible HW, so not all current HW will support the new specification, and will stay at the 2.1 level.

Uhm, I don't think the OpenGL implementation in the open drivers will change this much. That is: in mesa, when a feature is not "hardware accelerated" it is handled in software. Since mesa is just the API implementation where mesa/drm provides hardware acceleration for specific sets of commands. So in theory it is possible to (currently) use OpenGL 1.5 stuff with the open drivers on hardware that is only OpenGL 1.1 compatible. I don't think mesa/gallium will move away from this way doing things. Though in "normal use cases" noone will want to use the new features in software mode since it is too dead slow. Though in some years it might be fine...

No idea how AMD/ATI and nVidia will implement things in their proprietary driver. This we will see in the (maybe not so far ) future.

Beside this: with custom extensions it is already possible to do the stuff that is possible with Direct3D 10 in OpenGL2. Like it is possible to do so with Direct3D 9. It is "just" meant to be more comfortable by directly providing the stuff in the API.

Yes, OpenGL 3.0 will change lots of stuff. I don't think that all the paradigms that once were used will be gone to waste with 3.0. It will still be a "Graphics Library" and not specify a clear "in hardware you have to do A, B and C" specification. Up till latest OpenGL it was the case that the hardware vendor had to find a way to make good use of this library and accelerate what makes sense to accelerate.

We will see how long it takes till the framework is available under linux with well done hardware acceleration. Beside this it will take quite some time till a decent number of programs is using OpenGL 3.0 anyway...

[Heiko]

Well, now the specifications of OpenGL 3 and GLSL 1.30 have leaked (OpenGL 3.0: http://opengl.org/registry/doc/glspec30.20080811.pdf, GLSL 1.30: http://opengl.org/registry/doc/glspec30.20080811.pdf), it is the question if we even care how fast it is supported by drivers.

There is nothing of the promised new completely rewritten api in it. Some extensions are now included in the specs as far as I understand and there is a deprication model that should make sure we won't see some things come back in the NEXT version of OpenGL.

Does OpenGL have any chance against DirectX in this way? I doubt it, I really hoped for a nice and modern new api. And as far as I understood the CAD developpers are responsible for this, because they didn't want to loose backward compatiblity.

[Heiko]

So, Siggraph has passed, OpenGL 3.0 and GLSL 1.30 are introduced and the biggest storm about expectations and actual api is probably also over.

Can AMD now say anything about when we could expert first drivers? I own a HD4870 and I would love to start developing some OpenGL 3.0 (forward-compatible offcourse!) programs. When are first (beta?) drivers expected for Linux?