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Thread: X.Org 7.4 To Lose DRI2 Support

  1. #31
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    compositing has also other benefits, like lowering the CPU load or being able to use AWN.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yotambien View Post
    OK, I give up.
    But cubes...who gives a f_u_c_k about them?
    You think saying shit and bashing people will give you any fucking credit? If you don't like it, go away! Play with your little pathetic old games and some, but don't post here!

    DRI-2 failed to do what it supposed to do. That IS THE TOPIC OF THIS POST! Don't just come up with random shit and purpose that you have a point! Everyone has a point!

    We are talking about DRI2, nothing else. Saying it is useless because you don't like the one single aspect of many of the applications of DRI2 benefits us and hence come up with a result that saying anyone who cares about DRI2 is retarded does not make you any smarter!

    Just be careful when you posting things, cuz everyone can talk shit and bash people. Grow up!

  3. #33
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    You leave me speechless.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by yotambien View Post
    OK, I give up.

    Am I _really_ the only one who doesn't give a rat ass about cubes on my screen? Why is THAT so important to you? Do you really use your computer to do some WORK? Or _even_ if you use it to play games, watch movies or download porn, does it really matter that much whether you do all those things via a compositing desktop interface? How can it be that day after day people is complaining about _insert_driver_here_ not allowing them to do crap projected on a cube? And they pathetically smash their heads against their screens while claiming to have been eagerly waiting for months!

    Ah, no, please. Don't even try to argue about the 'benefits' of the cube for your productivity. I've heard them, as well as I've heard the 'selling Linux' bullshit. I don't care if people use Windows, MacOS, FreeBSD or whatever they feel like, and it is not my objective in life to convince anybody about using any particular OS. Do you guys also try to convince your pals about which particular microwave they should buy? (in that case I'd like to hear, so I know what to avoid, by the way).

    What I DO care is about being able, with my OS of choice, to open a website or pdf file and scroll down lighting fast without my CPU revving up as if I was recompiling the fucking kernel. About watching a movie without even noticing my laptop's got a fan. About being able to play a 9 (nine!) years old game at good, constant frame rate and decent quality without a glitch. About suspend/hibernate, about attaching an external monitor without even hearing the slightest complain, about not having to hard reboot from time to time because the stupid video driver decided to go crash...

    But cubes...who gives a f_u_c_k about them?
    Welcome, Master of the Universe.
    You are right: we all are a bunch of kids happily playing with their cubes and porn sites; sorry if you are alone in this world of sub-minds, what can I do to please you? Maybe can I recompile my kernel appending your name as suffix? Or maybe should I throw away my composited DE switching back to sh (not bash, too new...) an lynx?

    ***

    If you had read carefully (not too much, anyway... it is not needed to understand the basic concepts explained) previous posts, nobody is stating about productivity, work, selling Linux or other things you mentioned. We was talking about the an hypothetical strategy that distribution should/could follow to spread Linux so that people could CHOOSE, even if they won't ever work with a PC. Because yes: the PC can be used even for amusement only.

    Please, respect people not (non)thinking/(non)living/working like you and be more polite.
    Last edited by meden; 08-12-2008 at 12:06 PM.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by yotambien View Post
    Am I _really_ the only one who doesn't give a rat ass about cubes on my screen? Why is THAT so important to you? Do you really use your computer to do some WORK? Or _even_ if you use it to play games, watch movies or download porn, does it really matter that much whether you do all those things via a compositing desktop interface?
    Actually, yes to everything, except the first question.
    Quote Originally Posted by yotambien View Post
    How can it be that day after day people is complaining about _insert_driver_here_ not allowing them to do crap projected on a cube? And they pathetically smash their heads against their screens while claiming to have been eagerly waiting for months!
    That cube must make your life miserable. Let me guess: VIA Chrome-drivers? Maybe some S3-IGP?
    Quote Originally Posted by yotambien View Post
    Ah, no, please. Don't even try to argue about the 'benefits' of the cube for your productivity. I've heard them, as well as I've heard the 'selling Linux' bullshit.
    Good for you, really. You're doing your thing, others do what makes them happy. Pretty easy, so far?
    Quote Originally Posted by yotambien View Post
    I don't care if people use Windows, MacOS, FreeBSD or whatever they feel like, and it is not my objective in life to convince anybody about using any particular OS.
    Me neither. My goal is to provide freedom of choice. Real choice. If one deliberately chooses to use OS X/Windows, I couldn't care less.
    Quote Originally Posted by yotambien View Post
    Do you guys also try to convince your pals about which particular microwave they should buy? (in that case I'd like to hear, so I know what to avoid, by the way).
    So, in that case you avoid everything someone recommends to you? Is there any *real* reason to do that?
    Quote Originally Posted by yotambien View Post
    What I DO care is about being able, with my OS of choice, to open a website or pdf file and scroll down lighting fast without my CPU revving up as if I was recompiling the fucking kernel.
    You want compositing then, as it provides an acceleration for your desktop, that the 2D-part of your graphics solution of choice cannot offer. Look at the PDF-viewing abilities of OS X, then look at any uncomposited desktop and tell me the latter is faster than what OS X can do. Sure, it should be possible to enhance the pdf-handling of Evince and whatever KDE is using to display PDF-files, but compositing already does a lot of stuff. If developers find a way to 3d-accelerate the content of an application, you'll be astounded of what is possible.

    OpenGL on the desktop is still in its infancy, and in 1-2 years it'll reach puberty, I hope. OS X is ahead of Xorg/Linux/Drivers right now, but that can change.

    Quote Originally Posted by yotambien View Post
    About watching a movie without even noticing my laptop's got a fan. About being able to play a 9 (nine!) years old game at good, constant frame rate and decent quality without a glitch. About suspend/hibernate, about attaching an external monitor without even hearing the slightest complain, about not having to hard reboot from time to time because the stupid video driver decided to go crash...
    Crashing drivers are not a problem of compositing. Having your CPU/IGP cooled by a fan when watching a DVD isn't, neither. The same goes for your external monitor (the only thing missing is a sane interface for xrandr - I tested in with several laptops and it always worked as expected, which was a great experience). Tell your laptop's manifacturer to test their BIOSes with Linux or buy something else. Even my cheap HP Compaq 6720S works out of the box with a all sorts of power saving, including hibernate/suspend. I'm only 10 minutes short of battery, but before using Windows, I can live with that.
    Quote Originally Posted by yotambien View Post
    But cubes...who gives a f_u_c_k about them?
    You should lookup what compositing can do for you, really. You can use a composited window manager without any effects, animations and still enjoy the power of OpenGL on your desktop, because you have more CPU-cycles for applications, that actually need them, while your graphics card draws the desktop. If your IGP heats up, you'll hear the fan - that's the only compromise I can think of, when using something like Compiz.

    Please, either grow up and respect other people's dicisions or try it yourself and you'll experience a desktop-experience that doesn't get in your way, without any damage, tearing and whatever a slow, unaccelerated 2D-desktop (even with 2D-acceleration!) has to offer. Also, I have not seen anyone who forces Compiz on you.

  6. #36
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    What I DO care is about being able, with my OS of choice, to open a website or pdf file and scroll down lighting fast without my CPU revving up as if I was recompiling the fucking kernel.
    You want compositing then, as it provides an acceleration for your desktop, that the 2D-part of your graphics solution of choice cannot offer. Look at the PDF-viewing abilities of OS X, then look at any uncomposited desktop and tell me the latter is faster than what OS X can do. Sure, it should be possible to enhance the pdf-handling of Evince and whatever KDE is using to display PDF-files, but compositing already does a lot of stuff. If developers find a way to 3d-accelerate the content of an application, you'll be astounded of what is possible.
    I'm completely ignorant about what OS X can do about pdf. I don't know either whether the superior capabilites you mention are due to the compositing part or also something else. What seems clear is that as of now compositing is not an advantage in this respect in Linux land. Actually it is not hard to find in this forum comments about degraded 2D performance when using compiz.


    About watching a movie without even noticing my laptop's got a fan. About being able to play a 9 (nine!) years old game at good, constant frame rate and decent quality without a glitch. About suspend/hibernate, about attaching an external monitor without even hearing the slightest complain, about not having to hard reboot from time to time because the stupid video driver decided to go crash...
    Crashing drivers are not a problem of compositing. Having your CPU/IGP cooled by a fan when watching a DVD isn't, neither. The same goes for your external monitor [...]
    Those issues are indeed not related to compositing, that's precisely why I mentioned them as a counterpart of what it seems to be the general preoccupations around here. On the other hand, though, the ridiculous majority of times my computer crashes on me has to do with some video problem. Putting my whole computing environment--this is, the part I interact with--on top of an unreliable infrastructure is a good recipe to obtain an unstable system.

    I actually have played with compiz or whatever it was called two years ago. Neat tricks, wow effect, next page. I too had heard about offloading the burden of drawing the desktop and applications to the GPU. By then it certainly didn't offer any advantage--quite the opposite. Judging from what nowadays people is posting it doesn't seem to have changed that much, regardless the graphics card.

    Sure, the day that having a compositing desktop really means something more than having a bunch of lame effects, I'll buy it. "The PDF-viewing abilities of OS X" and "the power of OpenGL" of yours are rather loose--although you may be right, of course. What abilities? What can OpenGL actually do for the regular user? Is that now or in the uncertain future? Less CPU cycles, how many less? Are you really noticing some improved performance? Any benchmarks around? (These are real questions, not rhetoric).

    Please, respect people not (non)thinking/(non)living/working like you and be more polite.
    That's a fair comment. However, more than the occasional rant, I personally find terribly more annoying the constant noise introduced by people who never seem to get tired of whining and moaning about the same thing over and over. Especially when the object of their frustration is rather pointless and self-contained--i.e. compositing not working means compositing not working, nothing else; it doesn't preclude them to do their stuff on their computers.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by yotambien View Post
    What can OpenGL actually do for the regular user? Is that now or in the uncertain future? Less CPU cycles, how many less? Are you really noticing some improved performance? Any benchmarks around? (These are real questions, not rhetoric).
    .
    What it can do is offer 100% smooth moving of windows, and some(mostly) useless effects. the only real downtoearth reason is the smooth window moving.

  8. #38
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    What it can do is offer 100% smooth moving of windows, and some(mostly) useless effects. the only real downtoearth reason is the smooth window moving.
    Well, my exprience of it exactly the opposite - when compositing is enabled, window movement goes from perfect to laggy. But I keep it on for the effects, I like the transparency.

    Oh, and Intel gpu here, so not driver issue anyway.
    Last edited by curaga; 08-14-2008 at 01:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by madman2k View Post
    compositing has also other benefits, like lowering the CPU load or being able to use AWN.
    Direct rendering to redirected windows is also important for running 3D Windows apps (e.g. Google SketchUp) in Wine.

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