Definitely...there needs to be better testing and debugging of code submitted.
Originally Posted by deanjo
I bet that if we had a similar public changelog from all vendors, including Microsoft, it would look equally bad
Originally Posted by kraftman
Your right, closed source corporate development does have better bugtracking then what is typically found in opensource projects. Patches and shit in a corporate development team isn't spread through a bugzilla db, forums, mailing lists, blogs, etc. They are usually more organized then their open counterparts.
I understand the OP's frustration. I recognize it and dare I say, it's of a frustrated Linux user who has given up. If he was hired to rant, well, it doesn't change anything really.
He was right in one respect, bashing the poster doesn't do Linux any favours. Think about it: he is not going to convince anyone to drop Linux. Most people in 'Linux-oriented' forums are die-hards and most are adept enough at it despite whatever issues they run into. A small, minute minority might look at the post and think he has a point but if you have trouble with Linux, you'll give up because you're too frustrated not because of some rant you might agree with.
My point is that Linux is great but the fact remains, the corporate computer world supports Windows and that does contribute to the differences. If you were paid a hundred grand a year to support Windoze software, you probably would do a more substantial job than if you are doing it more or less for yourself and you can decide when to work or how to do it. In the Windows world, Mikeysoft says 'jump' to their employees and they say in response: "how high?!?" Microsoft has marketing and corporate support and most of Linux doesn't, save Canonical and RedHat. Linux developers have to reverse-engineer a lot of hardware/drivers and Windows/Microsoft has the info in front of them. If I'm wrong or inaccurate, please correct me. This is a noob's P.O.V. and I'm trying to be objective.
I've had experiences in which I've been so frustated, I wanted to throw in the towel but I kept telling myself, that Linux had its advantages and in the long run, it's probably a bad situation or development if there is no competition to Microsoft. Let's face it.
You are wrong. The drivers on Windows are written by the company who makes the hardware, not by Microsoft. People writing their own drivers is unheard of in the Windows world. But nowadays this argument doesn't really apply any more. Companies also write drivers for Linux. There are exceptions of course. But generally, drivers are there. The quality of those drivers is another matter, however.
Originally Posted by Panix
Okay, but I bet I am not wrong that the companies/developers writing the drivers for Windows are getting paid way more than the equivalent writing drivers for Linux. The support and time given is probably in Microsoft's/Windows' favour, right? That was my point, FWIW.
Originally Posted by RealNC
Not really, that has no basis, in fact most the time it's the same guys writing drivers for both. If they do get a separate dev to do the linux drivers they usually make actually more. Windows devs are a dime a dozen, linux devs are not and often catch premium wages for their hard to find skill set.
Originally Posted by Panix
Last edited by deanjo; 01-17-2009 at 08:31 PM.
@deanjo (posts 38 and 40):
Yeah, a lot of bugs and a lot of regressions get introduced on the way to a new kernel. But just because Microsoft (and ATI, and NVIDIA) do their development behind closed doors doesn't mean that they don't go through the same thing. I'm not going to pretend to know how often it happens in relation to Linux kernel development, but I guarantee that it DOES happen. It's just part of the software writing process - if you write something like a hardware driver, or operating system kernel, or damn near ANYTHING, and it works 100% for every corner case completely bug-free on its first compile, then you deserve a medal (and to be tested to make sure you're human).
wha what? That sounded like a response to (or commentary about) the post from that guy who came out of nowhere to declare he's a Windows guy and explain why. That's not the original poster - that's a hijacker!
@Thetargos (the original poster):
Have you tried KDE 4.2? The new wallpaper ("Air" by Nuno Pinheiro) combined with a transparent panel makes the bottom 35-ish pixels of my screen look like Windows 7! Grrr!
I'm not saying that MS or NV or ATI have no bugs either in the closed environment. Just pointing out that MANY of the times that people blame a bug on the OS (notably windows) they are often barking up the wrong tree. They automatically assume that it's the OS fault when just as many times, if not more, it's the application / driver / etc that is screwing up. It's also only natural that a OS that has the largest product support is going to exhibit more bugs. With the impossible to accurately count combination of hardware and software that is available out there for windows and you can hardly blame the OS for crappy code that lies outside of the OS.
Originally Posted by jeffro-tull
Last edited by deanjo; 01-18-2009 at 02:46 AM.