01-07-2009, 07:04 PM
Because we haven't released it yet as far as I know.
01-07-2009, 07:05 PM
I had a k6-2 400 and I was able to watch fullscreen dvd with it - without any support from the graphics card. dvd that is mpeg2 at 11mbit/sec. The same as digital tv.
Originally Posted by popper
I just had to make sure that glibc, and the libs for the apps used were compiled for pentium - not 386 or 486...
01-07-2009, 07:37 PM
your falling into the same old antiquated trap as all the other x86 coders thinking..... it doesnt matter, as the next faster CPu will be along any day now....
Originally Posted by energyman
the world is becoming netbook CPU size and lower CPU thoughput as the power requirements drop....
im not advocating only mpeg2, far from it, give me AVC encoded and streamed everything over Multicast tunnels any day....
i look forward to the futures realtime AVC multicast streaming variable bitrate Encoded digital multi-PIP over a new VNC/X server or two
however it seems many people are oblivious to the fact the worlds home PCs are changing right now, and people are wanting to buy small, low power mobile and soon static type devices and use them in dedicated single/dual tasks, thats were your dedicated (better than)realtime HW assisted Encode/Decode will be welcome, you dont then need the latest and greatest CPU to do all your mundain gfx processing....
"'normal' digital tv is SD anyway " you assume that is and will remain the case for all parts of the world , the world is not only the USA OC.....
"'normal' digital tv is SD anyway " are you also assuming its all encoded as Mpeg2 as well, that too isnt the case as more and more countrys adopt the AVC/H.264 for their HW realtime transcoded SD content (DVB-*) broadcasts...
nor the webs streaming content eather, Youtube encode your content to AVC remember, and DivX7 is developing H@L4.0 AVC OC.... theres not going to be much Mpeg2 left in the realtime trancoding world wide, only lagacy Mpeg2 from those that are milking the Mpeg2 only HW SOC (system On a Chip)for all they can until it drys up....
"are people watching blueray disks on their low level linux boxes?" OC not, they are using their HD PS3s mostly as the largest BR player sold world wide OC, BTW BR is encoded in AVC/H.264 today, the old semipro Mpeg2 transition transencoding kit was mostly sidelined long ago by the major BR vendors as the real long term AVC/H,264 trancoders came online.
So again, the vocal minority that puts in their pocket EVERY time theres somthing new that can speed up their video interest.
you dont for one minute think people havnt pulled their HD ATI cards right now and replacing them with NV cards so as to start using them now the tools and code have arrived in ffmpeg etc....
this minority are paying out and will continue to pull any card if another one comes along that makes their video procesing even slightly faster, can the same be said for the 3D linux buyers.... its clear who's werth more to the gfx vendors in this global turn down, anyone that buys their cards, time after time thats who...
Last edited by popper; 01-07-2009 at 08:23 PM.
01-07-2009, 07:55 PM
bridgman> Anyone who already had an ATSC tuner card but could not
bridgman> decode the signals would have upgraded their PCs already
bridgman> or would not be relying on it.
You don't have to rely on ATSC as long as NTSC is still around.
News can be watched live on NTSC. And news is only a *need*
when there is a serious problem. Entertainment can be transcoded
down to SD (or whatever) at slower than real time and watched later.
Or watched on NTSC.
Many people have been busy working on improving ATSC reception.
NTSC degrades gracefully, and the picture gives you good clues as to
what is wrong (snow vs ghosts vs herringbone, etc.) ATSC does not degrade
gracefully, often called the digital cliff effect. And doesn't give
you any clues as to *why* your reception is bad. You don't need
real-time decoding to work on reception problems, and hey, ATI
is releasing docs, and the drivers get the new features amasingly
quickly once the docs are out, so we should have XvMC soon. Well,
here we are in January 2009 and still no XvMC. :-(
bridgman> I can imagine maybe 10 people falling into that scenario,
bridgman> not tens of thousands.
How many people *need* fast 3D for anything? (Really need, not
the kiddie "I *need* my shiny new toy".) I can imagine zero.
How many people *need* H.264 or other newer codecs? I can imagine
zero. This is entertainment, and can be transcoded down at slower
than real time and watched later.
We actually *need* mpeg2 decoding.
energyman> mpeg2 decoding can be easily done by a K6-2 400
energyman> - that is a 10 year old cpu....
BS. There is no way a 10 year old CPU is going to decode full bitrate
720p or 1080i in real time. Maybe it can decode some low bitrate
low resolution, but that isn't the problem. From thread 14641:
rvdboom> I have a 2GHz Opteron and it cannot deal with HD contents,
rvdboom> either in MPEG4, MPEG2 or any other codec.
highlandsun> I have an Opteron 185 and a Dvico Fusion HDTV tuner
highlandsun> and a Radeon 9550, and 4GB of DDR-400. It's pretty
highlandsun> much impossible to watch 1080i HDTV material on this machine
That's just what I found in a couple minutes. I've seen lots of postings
in other forums about various other recent CPUs that can't decode HD in
01-07-2009, 08:21 PM
is this hd?
RIFF (little-endian) data, AVI, 1280 x720, 29.97 fps, video: DivX 5, audio: MPEG-1 Layer 3 (stereo, 16000 Hz)
if yes - that decodes fine on my 6000+ with almost no load and one core occupied with another application. And xshm as xine output plugin.
01-07-2009, 08:22 PM
energyman> 'normal' digital tv is SD anyway
Wrong. You have no clue what you are talking about.
Many broadcasts are HD, so to watch it you have to decode HD.
If your display can't do HD you have to scale it down, so even
more work for the CPU, until someone gets the Xv stuff working
energyman> what about a decoder card?
Decoder card? What are you talking about, some expansion card
that has hardware mpeg decoding, that can handle full bitrate HD,
and has FLOSS device drivers for *BSD, Plan-9, Linux, OpenSolaris,
OS-X, etc. ? And magically adds a free expansion slot to your computer?
And not just any expansion slot, but one with enough bandwidth to
handle decoded HD (PCIe x2 or faster) and ship it over to the GPU.
Yes, where do we get one of these magical decoder cards?
energyman> you can spent the few bucks more for one with hardware
energyman> decoding, or on a better cpu.
A better cpu is more than a few bucks. Quite a few more since it
really means a whole new computer.
energyman> dvd that is mpeg2 at 11mbit/sec. The same as digital tv.
Wrong again. DVD is 720x480. ATSC is up to 19.3 Mbps and up to
01-07-2009, 08:29 PM
no, I know exactly what I am talking about.
Almost all digital content HERE is SD.
Yes, there is some hd content - however since most tv sets still can't do it, it is sent in a way to make downsizing simple.
I have an analog tv card - no load for my cpu
I have a digital/analog dvb-t/analog usb stick - no load for my cpu.
and standard sd digital tv has the same rate as dvd. That is correct. Start learning to read.
01-07-2009, 09:12 PM
Looks like everybody is using this thread to push their wish list. So I'll put in mine too
1: Fast and stable 2D EXA acceleration for R600/R700.
2: Tear-Free Xv acceleration for R600/R700
3: 3D-Acceleration for R600/R700
I think this is in line with the development path for the radeonhd driver, and sure hope that the developers are not letting themselves be influenced by the ad infinitum demands by a vocal minority for features that can easily be handled by a 50 euro CPU.
Last edited by monraaf; 01-07-2009 at 09:14 PM.
01-07-2009, 09:23 PM
> Almost all digital content HERE is SD.
You don't explain where "HERE" is.
I'm talking about ATSC in the United States.
Many ATSC broadcasts in the US are HD (720p or 1080i)
and can be up to 19.3 Mbps. To watch them live you must
be able to decode this in real time, and if done in
a CPU it takes a LOT of CPU.
You keep talking about SD. I'm talking about HD
broadcasts. HD takes a LOT more CPU to decode than
The solution is for the GPU to support XvMC.
01-07-2009, 09:36 PM
Dieter, making mpeg2 decoding a priority on the open drivers simply does not make sense with the current situation. Fast, tear-free 2d and Xv, power management, support for KMS and RDR are simply much more important in day to day use.
The few (*) people who wish to watch ATSC broadcasts on their linux boxes can get by with the catalyst drivers. Hopefully, this will also allow the dust to settle around the competing decode acceleration specs and avoid wasting the (already strained) developer resources.
Edit: (*) Few, because most people will probably use an external decoder hooked to their tv. Really, how many have CPUs that won't decode 720p mpeg2 these days anyway? Any recent CPU, bar Atoms (which don't use AMD cards!) should be able to do this, Semprons included.
Last edited by BlackStar; 01-07-2009 at 09:41 PM.