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Thread: Creative Labs Continues To Shaft Linux

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealNC View Post
    Mainly support for 4096 software-mixed channels and 128 hardwara-mixed ones. AC97 only has 24 software-mixed channels and no hardware mixing at all. Also, hardware accelerated EAX effects.

    All of this runs on a custom CPU that's clocked at around 400MHz so the PC's CPU is freed from this task.

    It's a gamer's soundcard.
    And you play a game that requires 4096 different channels? Seriously.

    No, Crysis doesn't. So what does?

  2. #22
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    Many games do. Not 4096, those are *software* mixed. It's 128 hardware-mixed channels. Most games are using about 60 channels, but with on-board, they trim down to 20 (on-board can't do more than 24 software channels) and this results in problems. Some sounds disappear or simply don't sound as intended.

    It's not a big deal, but you asked what those cards have that the on-board doesn't. And I answered. Whether you want that or not is your decision. I don't have an X-Fi either. I'm on a cheap SB Live 24-bit that also lacks hardware mixing. But in contrast to on-board sound, it has Windows drivers that don't suck (64 software channels instead of the 24 of on-board drivers). In some games (like Colin McRae Rally 2005, Assassin's Creed, Gears of War, Oblivion) playing with the on-board chip (some Intel HD compatible thingy, forgot the brand, and a realtec AC97 on my older board) was no good. There was sound stutter, crackling, sound lag, and other artifacts. With Creative's drivers, all is perfect

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SarahKH View Post
    What exactly does the creative product do that the AC97 on a modern mobo doesn't?
    The reason I don't use my on board sound is because it constantly generates noise from the other components of the motherboard. I don't get that with an actual sound card.

    Sound systems integrated with motherboards may have the same capabilities, but they simply are not of the same quality.

    I'm not some audiophile freak. I'll fail at telling the difference between an MP3 recorded at a low bit rate vs a high bit rate. I don't have to be a freak to hear noise coming out of my speakers when no sound should be coming out at all. I'm not talking about a hissing noise that can be fixed by adjusting volume levels and installing a filter... chirps and whizzing (which change with CPU load) should not be heard.

    This has been the case with every onboard sound system I have ever owned.

    That said, Creative should burn in hell because even their Windows software sucks. Not to mention the hate I have for their webcams... again their software sucks. Just another hardware co that can't follow through with software to properly support their hardware.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy View Post
    The reason I don't use my on board sound is because it constantly generates noise from the other components of the motherboard. I don't get that with an actual sound card.

    Sound systems integrated with motherboards may have the same capabilities, but they simply are not of the same quality.

    I'm not some audiophile freak. I'll fail at telling the difference between an MP3 recorded at a low bit rate vs a high bit rate. I don't have to be a freak to hear noise coming out of my speakers when no sound should be coming out at all. I'm not talking about a hissing noise that can be fixed by adjusting volume levels and installing a filter... chirps and whizzing (which change with CPU load) should not be heard.

    This has been the case with every onboard sound system I have ever owned.
    I have to agree that onboard sound causes lot's of interference. I also agree that this Audigy is lovely with a good quality amplifier. Plus I also agree that their software and drivers are the big downfall of their products. This applies to windows and linux. I would say that is my largest gripe with that card.
    Quote Originally Posted by RealNC View Post
    Many games do. Not 4096, those are *software* mixed. It's 128 hardware-mixed channels. Most games are using about 60 channels, but with on-board, they trim down to 20 (on-board can't do more than 24 software channels) and this results in problems. Some sounds disappear or simply don't sound as intended.

    It's not a big deal, but you asked what those cards have that the on-board doesn't. And I answered. Whether you want that or not is your decision. I don't have an X-Fi either. I'm on a cheap SB Live 24-bit that also lacks hardware mixing. But in contrast to on-board sound, it has Windows drivers that don't suck (64 software channels instead of the 24 of on-board drivers). In some games (like Colin McRae Rally 2005, Assassin's Creed, Gears of War, Oblivion) playing with the on-board chip (some Intel HD compatible thingy, forgot the brand, and a realtec AC97 on my older board) was no good. There was sound stutter, crackling, sound lag, and other artifacts. With Creative's drivers, all is perfect
    I also agree that this Audigy is able to do things onboard sound can't do. Such as hardware mixing. That was a major gripe I had with linux and windows. See when audio is mixed in software, the cpu is doing one more thing it might not usually be doing. Or worse still, some games just drop that channel and no sound is played at all. So I think hardware mixing makes things a lot easier. Hardware mixing also simplified installing audio drivers in linux. It was quite difficult to get software mixing to work properly in linux. So in some ways, you can imagine why I bought this card. Especially when it was $90 (AUD) about 5 years ago. In saying that, I wouldn't buy an X-Fi even if it was $30 just because they don't have a good driver in linux. Let alone an average driver, or even a driver at all!

    Quote Originally Posted by SarahKH View Post
    I'd argue that they aren't. What exactly does the creative product do that the AC97 on a modern mobo doesn't? Hardware handoff? Does that. Surround? Does that, take your pick on the flavour (3+x3.5mm, SP/DIF, TOSLink). Generic PCM out? Yep. Audio in? Be a poor sound device if it didn't. Welded to the PCI bus? Yep.

    I've played games on the onboard sound device since my XP 1700+ (before then even I can't remember when I ditched the AWE32) and I honestly couldn't hear a difference. Guns go bang, positional audio works and no, I've never, ever, EVER seen even a 1fps difference between onboard and no sound at all. Headsets have worked fine again, with no appriciable difference between using one and not in terms of FPS.

    Creative is a monopoly because you think they are. Which is what they want you to think so you can go and buy the new "Fatl1ty spells gud edition" device.
    That's just it, I can hear the difference. I also have AC97 onboard and I definitely hear the difference. Don't forget that I also duel boot linux and windows just for those games. The audigy is the best compromise for audio and quality. I definitely am not going to go back to that whining AC97 that makes pops and squeaks based on what the CPU utilization is on. That's just dumb.
    In windows of course, theres EAX which does make a big difference in games. EAX 2 even more. Without it, the games are not really being played the way they should be.

    Regarding that. I wonder why a hardware sound card like Aureal hasn't showed up. Those cards where amazing. But they died I never bought one but when seeing one of those beauties in action they make EAX look like a cheap hack. EAX is just like a filter applied to audio in real time (through the mixer) much like a photoshop filter. Where as Aureal 3D was able to process the sound based on geometry in the game engine. Maybe unless video cards can start doing that, that kind of stuff is like comparing real time ray tracing to static light mapping.
    Last edited by b15hop; 03-26-2009 at 12:13 AM.

  5. #25
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    Wasn't Aureal bought off by Creative?

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruiseoveride View Post
    I dont get all the fuss over this crap.

    Its not like Creative is the only sound card manufacturer? Actually they're one of the worst at the moment. The old emu101 had hardware mixing at least.

    Consumer Cards
    - Asus
    - TerraTec
    - Probably a lot more el-cheapo stuff you find on ebay even

    Amateur
    - M-Audio
    - E-MU (Creative owned)

    Semi-Pro to Pro
    - RME
    - Echo Corp
    - MOTU
    - Lexicon

    ^^^ all that works on Linux (even the pro cards). Either through ALSA or through FFADO (alsa for fw cards)

    You've got to be really thick to go out and buy Creative hardware.
    I came into this thread primarily to ask what the alternatives to Creative are (why bother following hardware developments when you buy new hardware maybe once every 5 years?). Seems you anticipated just that very question. Cheers.

  7. #27
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    Whats annoying is that everytime creative is mentioned on a linux forum the ignorant masses have to chime in making stupid claims about thier products and how inferior they are.

    Anyone with a 4th grade reading level and 5 minutes to google can tell you that the Xfi is superior to onboard in just about every single way possible (Except price really). The Xfi was the best all around option for even casual gamers because it povides above average sound quality in music and movies and the gaming quality and performance is second to none. Which really makes it the best of both worlds for gamers that want good sound quality in thier movies and music as well.

    Obviously there are plenty of better choices for just music and movies but there is no better option if you want the gaming performance and quality as well.

    Trash creative for thier abysmal customer service and thier many driver problems but people coming to these threads going on about how thier products offer nothing over onboard really just make themselves look like ignorant fools and are counterproductive to what thier trying to do.

    If you want to hurt a company and steer people away from it point out the real things they do wrong dont make stuff up as you go.

  8. #28
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    Huh. The X-Fi 5.1 Surround (USB) seems to work really with with PulseAudio. I even have 5.1 working. I'm just having problems getting PulseAudio to send it 24-bit samples.

    EDIT: Yes, I realize mine has a different interface than other X-Fi's.

  9. #29
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    I use an X-Fi Xtreme Gamer Fatality edition and it's not bad with OSS. I use OSS 4.2 that I got from mercurial and it does work. The Sound Quality is pretty decent.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfunkman View Post
    If you want to hurt a company and steer people away from it point out the real things they do wrong dont make stuff up as you go.
    OK I'll start:

    1. Buying out Aureal and killing off their A3D in favour of Creative's own totally inferior EAX.
    2. Designing hardware so obtuse that nobody wants to touch it even with an open driver to look at.

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