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Thread: A Battle For Good Open-Source Game Graphics?

  1. #81
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    Well it's not that it was made for a console, but that it's a much different CPU design, if you are writing software to take advantage of the Cell CPU it's going to take a bit of work to get it working on an i7, and the performance difference between the 2 is quite large depending on what tasks you are giving the cpu, x86 CPUs being designed for general purpose, while the Cell was designed for IBM's high end servers, the binned ones are sold off to Sony for the PS3. Really no different from what AMD does with their current cpus, they 're only making the quads and sending the ones with dud cores to be triple, dual or single core cpus depending on how many cores work properly.

    I'd have tu guess that the difference between the current console CPUs and the current x86 CPUs is even larger now then the difference between the old PowerPC CPUs that Apple used to use.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by numasan View Post
    @Dragonlord
    And what type of game do you want with this über engine?
    Various concepts that are not done like that often. I'm trying something different here. And no it's not an FPS and it's not about fast paced action. I know what I'm doing.
    Will the engines features matter if it's YAFPS?
    Yes, tremendously even. An FPS engine can't do what I want to do without major recoding because FPS is about shooting, my game is about interaction.
    Do you have an idea for a highly innovative game and the skills to make it?
    Yes I do.
    Can you encourage others to make it?
    Yes I can. But to go beyond the core team it takes some more work on the engine side. FOSS people are ( and here I'm honest and blunt ) in general very unflexible. If a solution is not tried already they are hard to jump on and especially keep focused. So the project is separated into well defined steps and recruiting is not part of the current one.

    I think it is wonderful that so many FLOSS games exist, and that the engine/game developers have fun doing it. Creating a modern game is a huge task, so in that regard FLOSS games will always look/play like something a few years behind times, but as stated by others: Gameplay first.
    The problem are the engines themselves. They are a barrier preventing people with ideas to do them. Only a few are skilled enough coders to hack deep into existing engines to bend them to do what they want them to do. The others are simply blocked off and neglected. If they could work with an engine that supports them by providing high quality features without paying huge bucks for them and obtaining a good work pipeline they could go on working on their ideas... working on gameplay. If the engine is a hindrance then you need to work most of the time on the technical part and not the gameplay part which is why the gameplay is often just YAFPS since that requires little planing, no design documents and no need to stray of shot-and-run gameplay. If there would be a general purpose game engine of good quality more varied games would emerge and Linux would get the recognition it needs. Since now Linux is only perceived as a wannabe gaming OS and one reason are the projects in the FOSS domain nowadays.

    1) Creating content for a modern looking game, never mind a "next-gen" type game, is impossible to do with only a handful of artists working in their spare time (MOD artists reuse a lot of art assets from the main game).
    It's not impossible and has been done a couple of times already. Furthermore if the engine provides smart design the workload can be lessened. It's only impossible if you don't want to.
    2) If I'm going to dedicate a portion of my free time to a FLOSS game project, it MUST be a game that I enjoy immensely, that I want to see live up to it's potential, and that I can have FUN while creating content. Almost all FLOSS games could use better graphics, but not all captures me enough to help out. It also doesn't help that I don't game that much anymore as I used to...
    That's the problem with the existing engines. This is why we need a good and new general type engine which does provide a simple, concise and powerful work pipeline so that creating games for artists is no more a pain as it is today but fun. Then people are also going to be more willing to help. After all for many Linux stands for "cumbersome" and the current engines do no effort to counter this prejudice.
    3) The workflow must also be considered, getting content in the engine easily, create ingame effects without relying mostly on developers, maybe some sort of visual GLSL creation tool, etc.
    As mentioned above: it requires an engine with a proper design made with artists in mind and not just programmers. Again the current solutions are programmers oriented and hardly usable for artists.

    I agree with many that the visual representation of a game is very important today, and I would love to see a modern FLOSS game rival, say, HL2. I'm just afraid it is too much to expect, and I don't think the majority of Windows gamers will even glance at open source games on Linux. It is much more important to get studios like Blizzard and Valve on board, than to convince people to play our free, open games, made with great engines and the best art we can possibly create. Instead of competing with commercial games, we should create fun, quirky games with a unique art style, manageable by 1 or 2 artists in average. I think that is already what is happening.
    It's not. The mentioned engine is already in work. There will always be people who think outside the box and look for solutions instead of fighting symptoms.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanjo View Post
    You forgot hilarious easter eggs.
    Definitely. Easter eggs for the win

  4. #84
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    @Dragonlord

    "An FPS engine can't do what I want to do without major recoding because FPS is about shooting, my game is about interaction."

    From the surface, you're talking more about game code than engine code.

    Regardless, there is no way to make a new, original game without codework.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell View Post
    Insulting? You have yet to see insulting, besides if you're as old school as you claim then theres nothing anyone could be able to say to you on the "bad ole' internets" that could insult you. Or are you really that fragile as to have your e-p3|\|0® damaged so easily? I'd have figured an old salt of the internet would be made of tougher stuff then that...
    It's not about hurting my feelings, you miss the point, which is, acting like a petulant child is not going to get you what you want. If you want something to be done by someone(or some group), throwing derogatory remarks at them or their work isn't going to accomplish it.

    Right now I see alot of temper tantrums being thrown because the current crop of games doesn't meet what they consider to be "good". Opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one, doesn't mean anyone is right or wrong. If you really want to make a difference in the Linux gaming world, then follow this simple rule: Less complaining, more action. If you don't have the talent or ability to take action, then at least be nice to those who do
    Last edited by Irritant; 04-29-2009 at 12:03 PM.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell View Post
    Go ahead, try and find a reason why we can't get everything required for a decent game that you could actually sell, I say Phoronix should start organizing it, maybe even go and ask around the other linux gaming sites about it, hell, even the Mac ones, they're almost as hard up for games as we are so I'm sure you'll get some help from them.

    Call it "Phoronix And The Quest For The $5 Game".
    I think its perfectly viable aswell. Although you need to unite 2 camps of people that have different motives. Not everyone is going to use linux all the time or use open source software. Indoors in particular are usually done in a level editor because they are painstakingly slow to make in modeling programs. Problem with linux? all you have is radiant. Blender is very powerful but it took me a very long time to wrap my head around it. It is also the only decent solution for linux modeling becides maya which sucks for polygon modeling and softimage which sucks period.

    But i can see the promise in a customized engine alone as a phoronix benchmarking tool. You would be able to control different variables like shaders, polygons and so on. Because all of these open source games we have out are ID based they carry with them a certain bias.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irritant View Post
    It's not about hurting my feelings, you miss the point, which is, acting like a petulant child is not going to get you what you want. If you want something to be done by someone(or some group), throwing derogatory remarks at them or their work isn't going to accomplish it.

    Right now I see alot of temper tantrums being thrown because the current crop of games doesn't meet what they consider to be "good". Opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one, doesn't mean anyone is right or wrong. If you really want to make a difference in the Linux gaming world, then follow this simple rule: Less complaining, more action. If you don't have the talent or ability to take action, then at least be nice to those who do
    In fact you are the one not getting anything. You insult all the time somebody WHO DOES SOMETHING! So if you still want to continue labeling me a whining fart who does nothing do your math first. And with this I won't be answering to you anymore. If you want to be an asshole so be it but don't expect anything from those doing something.

    Period.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlord View Post
    In fact you are the one not getting anything. You insult all the time somebody WHO DOES SOMETHING! So if you still want to continue labeling me a whining fart who does nothing do your math first. And with this I won't be answering to you anymore. If you want to be an asshole so be it but don't expect anything from those doing something.

    Period.
    So asking people to be courteous is insulting? Alright then. Listen, I'm not trying to insult anyone, but I do feel that a couple people here need some perspective/reality check.

    Now the next question isn't meant to be offensive, but is English your first language? I only ask because it seems you've misconstrued some thing's I have said, as if there may have been a language barrier. Forgive me if this offends you, I just want to make sure that is or is not the case when I reply.

    So you've established that you are someone who "does something". I'm just curious, what projects are you working on, or released? I'd be interested in following their progress. You seem to have some ambitious ideas and goals, and if they are what you claim, then it would be something I would be interested in paying attention to.

    Thanks -

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irritant View Post
    So asking people to be courteous is insulting? Alright then. Listen, I'm not trying to insult anyone, but I do feel that a couple people here need some perspective/reality check.
    Yourself included, I'm afraid.

    You didn't "ask someone to be courteous". You took a hostile position back about 3 or so screens back worth of commentary- and have been escalating the commentary with Dragonlord. Perhaps some of his word choices are not the best in the world, but in the end, he DOES have something of a valid point.

    "Badly designed" isn't offensive unless someone's trying to be defensive about something. Fact is, most of the FPS' are badly designed. Seriously. Regardless of whether the stuff you're working on is or isn't and I believe that is what Dragonlord's referring to. Moreover, most of the FPS' that we have in the FOSS space don't have decent asset toolchains to produce asset content FOR the engine in the first place. That's part of "badly designed", if you want the pro's take on things there.

    Now the next question isn't meant to be offensive, but is English your first language?
    You lose right there. If you're asking that you're being offensive- out of the gate.

    I only ask because it seems you've misconstrued some thing's I have said, as if there may have been a language barrier. Forgive me if this offends you, I just want to make sure that is or is not the case when I reply.
    As have you misconstrued things. You might want to cool your jets there a bit, friend. Your handle is becoming entirely to apt for words right at the moment.

    So you've established that you are someone who "does something". I'm just curious, what projects are you working on, or released? I'd be interested in following their progress. You seem to have some ambitious ideas and goals, and if they are what you claim, then it would be something I would be interested in paying attention to.
    How about Googling for it, hm? It's not at all hard for someone to find his stuff. Try "Dragonlord" coupled with "game engine" and try out the first link...you'll get better results than resorting to shouting matches.

    And, as someone else who's "doing something", it does get a bit old with all the armchair people griping about this and that and contributing little to the discussion or efforts. I can see where Dragonlord might get a bit snippy at times. I know I do from time to time because of it.

  10. #90
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    @Svaltalf -

    I read back on all of my posts and, I was certainly not being "hostile". I simply requested for a couple of posters to be more polite and courteous after some destructively critical remarks directed towards FOSS FPS games. I didn't take them to be directed at my work specifically, so it wasn't personal. I just don't like to see this type of discourse when discussing how to improve things. I simply wanted to see some things toned down a bit, not trying to start a flame war.

    So "I lose"? I didn't realize I was in a contest. I asked him if English was his first language because on a couple of occasions it seemed as if he completely misunderstood something, and because well, English isn't the first language of alot of people. How in the world is asking that offensive? Alot of times a language barrier can cause misunderstandings. I have no idea where DragonLord is originally from.

    I am not going to continue to argue about whether or not FOSS FPS games are badly designed or not, but I will mention at least in the case of the engine I personally work on, every asset for the engine can be created with readily available programs(radiant, Blender, and Gimp). With those three programs, and a sound editor of choice, you can make anything the engine needs.

    As for shouting matches, I have not once shouted in this forum. So please refrain from including me as a participant in them.
    Last edited by Irritant; 04-29-2009 at 03:26 PM.

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