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Thread: Dell S2409W 24-inch LCD

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanL View Post
    TN panel? No thanks.
    My sentiment exactly. Frankly I'm seriously annoyed by all the crap 22/24" monitors entering the market at the moment. I understand the need for cheap options, but right now everything is either very cheap and very bad or not so cheap but still very bad, all thanks to those awful TN panels.

    It's not like the x-PVA and S-IPS technologies are anything new or cutting-edge, however almost all the monitors available right now use TN, even the more expensive ones. One used to be able to find a good 20" S-PVA and even a 24" S-IPS. Now it seems the only choice is 30" (arrggh!). Can anyone name one model on the market in the 20-22" range that is not a TN? What ever happened to choice? Sometimes the drive for lowest price is hurting customers, and this seems to be one of those situations.

    Yes, I know, OLED's or <insert_wonder_tech_of_the_moment> will make all this rant obsolete. But they (like the rest of trekkie tech that seems to always be "on the horizon") are not here. Yet.

  2. #12
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    The Dell 2209WA is 22" and has an E-IPS panel (brand new cheaply produced IPS variant). It's about 200 here in the UK and has pretty much universally good reviews.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgc8 View Post
    My sentiment exactly. Frankly I'm seriously annoyed by all the crap 22/24" monitors entering the market at the moment. I understand the need for cheap options, but right now everything is either very cheap and very bad or not so cheap but still very bad, all thanks to those awful TN panels.

    It's not like the x-PVA and S-IPS technologies are anything new or cutting-edge, however almost all the monitors available right now use TN, even the more expensive ones.
    "Expensive" is a very relative term here, though. The most expensive TN computer monitors are what, $400-500? That's about where S-IPS units start.

    One used to be able to find a good 20" S-PVA and even a 24" S-IPS. Now it seems the only choice is 30" (arrggh!). Can anyone name one model on the market in the 20-22" range that is not a TN?
    HP L2065 (20.1" S-IPS)
    Dell 2007FP (20.1" S-IPS)

    Both are somewhere between $400 and $450.

    What ever happened to choice? Sometimes the drive for lowest price is hurting customers, and this seems to be one of those situations.
    I mostly agree with that sentiment as you used to be able to find S-IPS and PVA/MVA panels much more frequently a few years ago than you can today. Basically everything 20.1" and over was S-IPS or MVA/PVA, while the under-20.1" category had some TN and some S-IPS or MVA/PVA panels. However, the widespread use of cheap TN panels has driven the price of larger LCDs down from the stratosphere to the point where mere mortals can buy them. Back when the only LCDs over 20.1" were one of the better 8-bit panels and not TN panels, very few people could afford them and most people had 17" or 19" 1280x1024 LCDs if they didn't hang on to their CRTs. Now that the TN panels have grown in size and displaced the S-IPS and MVA/PVA panels, we're seeing large, high-resolution LCDs with reasonable prices. I don't know about you, but I'd rather pay a $300 for a large TN panel monitor like the Dell in the review and live with a slightly lower gamut and viewing angle rather than pay $700+ for one with an S-IPS panel.

    Yes, I know, OLED's or <insert_wonder_tech_of_the_moment> will make all this rant obsolete. But they (like the rest of trekkie tech that seems to always be "on the horizon") are not here. Yet.
    The problem with most monitors today is not that they are TN panels but that the DPI is still rather low. Laptop displays can get to 150-200 dpi, yet desktop monitors still hang around 100 dpi. I am sure that much of this is to blame on Windows and its terrible lack of DPI icon/font scaling, but come on already.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by MU_Engineer View Post
    Expensive is a very relative term here, though. The most expensive TN computer monitors are what, $400-500? That's about where S-IPS units start.
    Frankly, I believe anything over 200$ for a TN is overpriced. I couldn't find any 500$ monitor with TN that didn't have the same old problems -- awful viewing angles and bad colours. Sure, you get 8bit instead of 6, but the quality is nowhere near good!

    Quote Originally Posted by MU_Engineer View Post
    HP L2065 (20.1" S-IPS)
    Dell 2007FP (20.1" S-IPS)
    Both are somewhere between $400 and $450.
    Both of these are a few years old, good luck finding them new! I actually wanted an older 20" 2007 Dell for my secondary computer and I ended up paying 500$ for it, that's 100$ less than what I payed for a 24"! And the newer models (like the 2008WFP from Dell) all use TN...

    Quote Originally Posted by MU_Engineer View Post
    However, the widespread use of cheap TN panels has driven the price of larger LCDs down from the stratosphere to the point where mere mortals can buy them.
    I agree, and that is not a bad thing. My point was that this race has effectively wiped out the quality screens off the market (with a few exceptions), since they simply cannot compete with the el-cheapo screens. They've been driven to a niche!

    Quote Originally Posted by MU_Engineer View Post
    I don't know about you, but I'd rather pay a $300 for a large TN panel monitor like the Dell in the review and live with a slightly lower gamut and viewing angle rather than pay $700+ for one with an S-IPS panel.
    Sincerely, I'd take the 700$ monitor every day. The screen is in my opinion the most important part of a computer, the one we look into for hours each day. It not only affects the quality of our experience but also the correctness of what we see. Plus, large TN's start to show up their weaknesses a lot sooner than small ones (like in the case of laptops) -- for example, I am using a 22" Samsung screen right now that changes colours as I move my head slightly up and down. That's totally unacceptable! Not to mention that even a slight tilt will make the picture appear darker on one part and lighter on the other. And I won't even start on the colours, there are shades of green that look gray here... Come on! It's not like people buy monitors each month, this is a long-term purchase and the better product over a few years will more than make up for the expense.

    This is similar to what is happening on the compact cameras market -- more and more megapixels with the same crappy old sensors. The image quality is actually less with a 10MP than a 6MP (not talking SLR here), but how many people take that into account?

    Quote Originally Posted by MU_Engineer View Post
    The problem with most monitors today is not that they are TN panels but that the DPI is still rather low. Laptop displays can get to 150-200 dpi, yet desktop monitors still hang around 100 dpi. I am sure that much of this is to blame on Windows and its terrible lack of DPI icon/font scaling, but come on already.
    That is true, although I must say Linux isn't that bright with high DPI either :-/ But I'd sure like to see more pixels on the desktop, although we may have to wait a while for that...

    Quote Originally Posted by fat_chris
    The Dell 2209WA is 22" and has an E-IPS panel (brand new cheaply produced IPS variant). It's about 200 here in the UK and has pretty much universally good reviews.
    That looks interesting and a nice new development... I'll have to check it up!
    Last edited by mgc8; 05-10-2009 at 09:01 AM.

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