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Thread: As It Stands, Ubuntu Has No Issues With Mono

  1. #11
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    I don't see enough benefit over Java with C# and Mono to make it worth the risk.

    At least Java has something resembling a diverse community of interests moving it forward, rather than just the limited interests of one company.

    Sun provides Java under the GPL themselves, directly licensing any patents they (the creators) have over the technology. Novell may also ship their Mono implementation under the GPL, but not being the creators of the technology, they can't give a license to patents they don't own!

    It's also worth mentioning that neither the ECMA nor ISO (through which .NET was standardized) require any patent disclosure (let alone a libre grant) on a submission being standardized!

  2. #12
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    While not an ubuntu user, I masked mono in gentoo. It microsoft, and evil company with a horrible track record. I'll never have mono.

    matt

  3. #13
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    Bad decision in my opinion. I really like Ubuntu, so I hope they don't get screwed over because of their shortsightedness.

  4. #14
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    I can't help but wonder, doesn't this at least slightly go against Bug #1
    https://launchpad.net/bugs/1 of Ubuntu?

    I know Shuttleworth even mentioned it a few times, saying that it's one of the reasons he created Ubuntu.

    Even though it's an "open" spec and what not, you can't argue that MS will have their dirty little finger in it at some point and screw us over somehow. If you sincerely think that would not happen, I can only say one would be extremely naive.

  5. #15
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    Here we go again - why Mono doesn't suck.

    I, for one, am happy to see Ubuntu take such a level-headed stance. Tomboy, Gnome-Do, Banshee, F-Spot are the best applications in their respective kinds, bar none. These applications use the ECMA parts of .Net and Linux-specific APIs - they don't bring in any Microsoft dependencies! (Windows.Forms etc)

    It is idiotic to avoid Mono over this kind of nebulous FUD. If you are afraid of Mono, why are you even using the Linux kernel? Microsoft has threatened that Linux steps on its patents, boo!

  6. #16
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    Heh, I can't help but think the same "OMG the world is ending scenario's" would have been said as well with any company that developed a language. Place the GPL back into the 50's and same "the sky is falling down" nonsense would have been said about Bell labs, IBM, etc etc on C, C++, Fortran, etc.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackStar View Post
    It is idiotic to avoid Mono over this kind of nebulous FUD.
    The threats are real.

    "If a customer says, 'Look, do we have liability for the use of your patented work?' Essentially, If you're using non-SUSE Linux, then I'd say the answer is yes," Ballmer said.
    When Linux backs MS into a corner, this is gonna turn into another SCO, and with the help of Novell+Mono+Moonlight, this time they are gonna come up with the goods. Patents are real, you can't just stick your head in the sand, nor can you just tromp all over other peoples IP just because you think your friends might have something on them too.

  8. #18
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    I have to comment on the exaggerated Microsoft hate in this topic.

    Although Microsoft has initiated Mono and .NET, for a large part it has been up for standardization all the time. The fears against 'evil' Microsoft are unfounded - Microsoft doesn't 'own' .NET (bar maybe trademarks), and there is no way they can take away Mono from Linux users. Hell, they even initiated the whole Mono project to make sure .NET could be used everywhere. Worst they could do is retract their support, but with an active community, Mono isn't going to die.

    Personally, I think C# is a beautiful language and I very much enjoy using it. This backward thinking is not going to help the Linux desktop forward one bit. Microsoft is not the freaking devil.

  9. #19
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    DCKing, maybe you missed the part where standardization has NO BEARING on the patent threat? There are HEAPS of patented standards!

    And how are they not the devil?? Have you read the FUD on their Get The Facts campaign? Did you read the statements Ballmer makes? They bankrolled SCO with millions of dollars to generate FUD! Did you read anything about what acts got them convicted as monopolists? Rather than compete fairly, they leverage their monopoly to destroy any competition or do whatever they want. They ARE evil.

    And C# is a great language - probably THE BEST language - that doesn't change the fact that it's created, managed, trademarked, and patented by a convicted monopolist!

    And the bottom line is - if they really wanted to put all this arguing to rest and have everyone use Mono without fear - they could do it in a second (ie, ship it themselves under the GPL)! Has their desire to have the world use .NET led them to do that? NO! They have done just the opposite with the MS/Novell deal, etc.

  10. #20
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    The lack of nuance is simply astounding.
    Quote Originally Posted by hubick View Post
    DCKing, maybe you missed the part where standardization has NO BEARING on the patent threat? There are HEAPS of patented standards!
    When something is standardized, one can interface with it freely. While Microsoft may have patents in the implementation of .NET, Mono has a different implementation that achieves the same standard, and it's perfectly legal.

    With all this FUD (yes, that's spreading FUD) about Mono, I've never seen anyone give an example of a potentially troublesome patent. Nor have Microsoft ever undertake specific action to a major FOSS project (maybe companies, but not projects).
    Quote Originally Posted by hubick View Post
    And how are they not the devil?? Have you read the FUD on their Get The Facts campaign? Did you read the statements Ballmer makes? They bankrolled SCO with millions of dollars to generate FUD! Did you read anything about what acts got them convicted as monopolists? Rather than compete fairly, they leverage their monopoly to destroy any competition or do whatever they want. They ARE evil.
    If you're basing 'evil' on marketing claims, a succesful OS and legal support, then there's something wrong with your definition. Microsoft ain't pretty, granted, but they're not in business to make our lives as Linux users difficult.

    Microsoft has greatly improved the last few years with a lot of standardization (notably OOXML, XPS, and .NET).
    Quote Originally Posted by hubick View Post
    And C# is a great language - probably THE BEST language - that doesn't change the fact that it's created, managed, trademarked, and patented by a convicted monopolist!
    May I point out to you that all of Mono is created and managed by the FOSS community? Microsoft has no control over what Mono chooses to do. Now Mono tries to follow Microsoft's standards, but it's completely up to us what we're going to do next.

    Also, Microsoft has no trademark rights over C#. Maybe 'Visual C#' as part of their IDE, but not the name of the language.
    Quote Originally Posted by hubick View Post
    And the bottom line is - if they really wanted to put all this arguing to rest and have everyone use Mono without fear - they could do it in a second (ie, ship it themselves under the GPL)! Has their desire to have the world use .NET led them to do that? NO! They have done just the opposite with the MS/Novell deal, etc.
    Microsoft's given us a hand, and now we fight about it just because RMS made a few unfounded claims. It's not up to Microsoft to resolve it. Also, you know perfectly well GPL'ing isn't an option for nearly every software company out there (even though we'd like that), and certainly not for Microsft.

    Look, I'm not going to be a defender of Microsoft here. I don't like them, but I most certainly don't hate them. Their practices may be wrong a lot of times, but they have brought a lot of advancements in the software world, and keep on doing so today. If the Linux world keeps on viewing the software world with anti MS glasses as most are still doing today, it's not going to make it any easier for us. We don't have to embrace MS, but we sure should be able to live with them.
    Last edited by DCKing; 06-30-2009 at 09:12 PM.

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