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Thread: GNOME's Zeitgeist Engine Has Its First Release

  1. #11
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    And some people just dont want more features.

    If I wanted a feature fest i'd use KDE

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackStar View Post
    Because some people keep valuable stuff on their systems. Music creation; 3d models; textures; retouched photos; book scripts; source code.
    And they'll lose them all if they're not backed up on a remote system. Compulsory version control is just silly; there's a reason why even Microsoft didn't copy it from VMS.

    Obviously, if you are concerned that someone might be monitoring your workstation, it would be best to minimize traces of your illegal activities - hence no Zeitgeist for you. :P
    Who said anything about illegality? There are many perfectly good commercial and personal reasons for not wanting your computer to save away every file you ever access and every web site you ever visit. Heck, Mozilla just put a new feature into Firefox to _prevent_ it from logging what you do because many users wanted that.

    If this goes into Gnome and can't be turned off, I'm not even sure we'll be able to justify using it at work anymore. For example, a while back I was given sample files from a customer which they required me to delete all copies of once we were done testing; how do I do that if the _windowing system_ is saving away copies in random places?

  3. #13
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    You know the Firefox smart search bar? Same sort of concept. Making histories and such return things that are more useful and more relevant to users. Gnome 3 is trying to base the desktop around getting you to the media and programs you want faster, putting less focus on "file managers" and more focus on "event managers".

    Hey, actually that's a pretty good term to use IMO...but I'm sure someone already thought of it first.

    But I think it's a good thing, turning the computing experience into the same kind of easy access experience that, say, gaming consoles have, or media centers give you, etc. If you do have a need to access files/programs through the traditional methods, of course the file managers and consoles will still be available, but I think easier-to-use UIs will only increase in traction for the mainstream computing experiences.

    P.S., think Minority Report, etc. Only time will tell as to what computing experiences are desirable but I definitely think there is room for these environments.
    Last edited by Yfrwlf; 07-15-2009 at 11:05 PM.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by movieman View Post
    And they'll lose them all if they're not backed up on a remote system. Compulsory version control is just silly; there's a reason why even Microsoft didn't copy it from VMS.
    As I said, this feature is orthogonal to regular backups. I understand your urge to post, but make sure you understand someone's point before clicking the reply button.

    Who said anything about illegality? There are many perfectly good commercial and personal reasons for not wanting your computer to save away every file you ever access and every web site you ever visit. Heck, Mozilla just put a new feature into Firefox to _prevent_ it from logging what you do because many users wanted that.
    Illegal activities = tongue in cheek.

    If you have legitimate reasons to avoid this feature, just turn it off. Feeling paranoid? Compile it out.

    It's not as if this were some obligatory spyware forced down your throat by the government.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackStar View Post
    As I said, this feature is orthogonal to regular backups. I understand your urge to post, but make sure you understand someone's point before clicking the reply button.


    Illegal activities = tongue in cheek.

    If you have legitimate reasons to avoid this feature, just turn it off. Feeling paranoid? Compile it out.

    It's not as if this were some obligatory spyware forced down your throat by the government.
    It's not always that easy. In this case this functionality will be built on to be critical to the UI. The work that your seeing now is just the initial framework being hammered out. The UI work will come later once the framework issues are resolved.

  6. #16
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    Seriously... Canonical and Novell are infecting the Linux ecosystem in the worst way.

    - First they make grow Gnome and GTK, but they make it a flawed project in the process. Tons of wrong design choosings.

    - Then they make spread MONO as a dependency.

    - They infect Debian too, installing MONO by default.

    - They try to imitate both the Apple and Microsoft in a crappy and unoriginal way.

    Seriously, they need to start their own path and not copycat the other main platforms in such an extreme way. Linux wust stay innovative and free.

    Of course average users need a similar environment, but they need to provide something fresh and interesting.

    The last experience I had with Ubuntu was horrible, deadly slow compared to another environments and their "easy way" was not so comfortable for certain situations. I'm a lot more keyboard driven and preferring other kind of window managers, but as mouse-based window managers I would prefer other alternatives.

  7. #17
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    There are indeed some pratical benefits to use such tools... but at the time of features like anonymous browsing... it's a bit awkward. Big Brother will be watching you more easily with such a tool.
    Last edited by sylware; 07-16-2009 at 04:23 AM.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by sylware View Post
    There are indeed some pratical benefits to use such tools... but at the time of features like anonymous browsing... it's a bit awkward. Big Brother will be watching you more easily with such a tool.
    Erm, how about no? Unlike browser cookies third parties won't have access to Zeitgeist over the network. It's apples to oranges.

    If you really care about privacy that much, encrypt your emails (you aren't using GMail or Hotmail I hope?) and access the internet through Tor. Anything less and is for naught: your ISP already keeps a complete history of your connections and data movement; google is close behind.

    The ability to abuse something like Zeitgeist is simply a non-issue compared to the above. Sure, someone could root your system and copy your Zeitgeist history, but then you are toast anyway.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by timofonic View Post
    - They try to imitate both the Apple and Microsoft in a crappy and unoriginal way.

    Seriously, they need to start their own path and not copycat the other main platforms in such an extreme way. Linux wust stay innovative and free.
    You know, it took me years of copying other people's recipes to make my dinner before I could make up my own.

    And for the record, I think this is very interesting. So far it's one of those what-the-hell-is-it-even-for and i'm-sticking-with-what-i-know things, but lets face it:

    File Managers and dumb hierarchal (?) file systems suck. Time for something new that works please!

    I remember when I first saw iTunes on my gf's eMac. I didn't understand the point. Then I saw her find a track using a single search box without having to know where the file was on the disk. Always thought that was pretty much how everything should work.

    J1M.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackStar View Post
    Erm, how about no? Unlike browser cookies third parties won't have access to Zeitgeist over the network. It's apples to oranges.

    If you really care about privacy that much, encrypt your emails (you aren't using GMail or Hotmail I hope?) and access the internet through Tor. Anything less and is for naught: your ISP already keeps a complete history of your connections and data movement; google is close behind.

    The ability to abuse something like Zeitgeist is simply a non-issue compared to the above. Sure, someone could root your system and copy your Zeitgeist history, but then you are toast anyway.
    1 - It's not a matter of data being available over the network. It's a matter to have a tool that will scrutinize you and write down all that nicely indexed.
    2 - ISP cannot log everything, I think it's far from everything (I work for a million access points ISP). Google keeps the IPs of searchs... hum maybe not all of them... This is so much data that it seems unrealistic. Worst case, they select the searchs to log based on specific criterias.
    3 - You missed the point, if you are rooted, it's not a good reason to provide nicely indexed data to the attacker.

    It's a trade off... but people should be aware what this tool does in the background.
    Soon "anonymous desktop" like "anonymous browsing" ?

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