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Thread: GNOME 2.27.5 Released, Marks Feature Freeze

  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by L33F3R View Post
    well im no going into the whole standards debate but i will say this.

    The reason I use linux is so that my computer works for me, not so i work for my computer. If i wanted a pretty/buggy desktop I will go ahead and reinstall windows. Dont say KDE4 isn't buggy because in comparison to gnome it might as well be windows. KDE 3 is fine.
    Which KDE 4.x version are you using? 4.2 and 4.3 (RC3) have come a long way. They are just as stable as KDE 3.x for most of the people I have heard about

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by SyXbiT View Post
    i'm considering switching to KDE 4.3
    gnome hasn't really changed much in years
    That's about as accurate as people saying KDE 4.3 is an unstable piece of crap. It's a little hypocritical that people make stupid statements like these about Gnome and then get angry when people use one about KDE!

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanjo View Post
    Sorry but openSUSE has no standard, free choice of either. User selects. SLED carries both packages as well with the the user being able to choose either. In fact over 70% of opensuse users select KDE. default!=standard.
    Well I missed that OpenSuse forced the user to choose during installation.

    But SLED offering both in packages is meaningless to this discussion. All the major distros provide KDE packages. The default for SLED is Gnome.


    default = a preset setting or value

    There are also many other distro's that use KDE by default as well. In fact if you look at the top 20 distro's over at distro watch you will see that there are many that are kde flavored as well as well as minimalist distro's.
    Distro watch's statistics are BS. I don't know how they compile them, but it's not accurate.

    Gnome maybe A standard desktop but it is not THE standard linux desktop.
    It is. If your a ISV and you need to target your customers then Gnome and GTK will offer the largest install base. Redhat is the #1 OS required for customers to use in order to be compatible with commercial desktop applications for businesses. This provides a common install base so that ISVs do not have to deal with the extra expense and difficulty of tracking down variations in multiple Linux distros.

    That's why it's the standard. It's not very complicated.

    In fact most surveys you see show KDE still hold most of the marketshare of installed systems.
    What surveys? Were? In KDE forums?

    (links would be nice)

    Like it or not it's the truth. Gnome is no more the standard linux desktop then Dell is the standard server.
    That is a pointless and irrelevent assertion to make. Next thing you know you'll be bringing up Ford and cars types into the disccusion.

    It's like saying "KDE is a great desktop like how blue is a great color because the sky is blue"

    In fact real standards that do exist in linux make absolutely no mention of what desktop is to be used. The LSB for example does not say "Gnome is the standard".
    It should and in a couple years it will. That's my prediction.

    There is a growing need for standardization for the desktop so it's definately going to happen. The way things are right now Gnome is much better positioned and has the support from vast majority of companies interested in forwarding commercial LoTD efforts.

    (edit: Moblin is now a LSB standard. It's not a distro, so much, is a environment for ISVs and there is compliance testing and dependency requirements required to be 'Moblin Compatible'. Novell already has Moblin compatible Suse versions. Ubuntu has a Moblin compatible version. Fedora 12 is aiming for Moblin compatibility.... The technologies that Intel is pushing for the gnome environment are playing a heavy roll in what Gnome 3 will be. Gnome 3 is, also, going to be a much smoother transition then KDE 3 vs 4.. it'll be done in a step by step manner rather then one big break)


    ---------------------

    Remember:

    There is absolutely no harm for KDE, or any other desktop environment, if Gnome is required to be installed for compatibility reasons. It's just a few hundred megs on a disk. Even a low-end new computer can brush that off.

    ---------------------

    KDE used to be in contention for the 'standard' environment, but they blew it when they gave up all compatibility with previous applications. it was not obvious at the time that the KDE 3 to 4 transition would cause so much havok, but time has proven that it did.

    So application designers and distros had the choice of putting a lot of effort into supporting something that was obviously dead (KDE 3.5 is the end of the line for that desktop.) or making their users use something that was obviously not ready for prime time (KDE 4).

    It's taken approximetly 2 years for KDE 4.x to get to the point were it is currently at.

    That is about 3-4 entire major releases from popular distros like Fedora and Ubuntu. That's also a long time for Novell to tell Suse users to make the choice between programming for a dead-end environment or a environment that is not really usable for most people.

    KDE is a fine desktop. But they are still going to have to put a lot of work into catching up to were KDE 3.5 was 4 years ago, much less were Gnome is at today.

    --------------------------

    And good luck for KDE. They can still pull off creating a great product. It would be nice to have a nicer desktop then Gnome.
    Last edited by drag; 07-30-2009 at 07:55 PM.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by drag View Post
    KDE is a fine desktop. But they are still going to have to put a lot of work into catching up to were KDE 3.5 was 4 years ago, much less were Gnome is at today.

    --------------------------

    And good luck for KDE. They can still pull off creating a great product. It would be nice to have a nicer desktop then Gnome.
    How is KDE 4.3 behind KDE 3.x? And how was KDE 3.x behind GNOME?

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefirstm View Post
    Which KDE 4.x version are you using? 4.2 and 4.3 (RC3) have come a long way. They are just as stable as KDE 3.x for most of the people I have heard about
    4.2, i eagerly await a proper 4.3 before i test anything.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by L33F3R View Post
    4.2, i eagerly await a proper 4.3 before i test anything.
    You really should try 4.3 once it comes out. It is a joy to use.

  7. #17
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    Two great posts by drag here.

    I've installed and used every major KDE version since 3.5. Every single time, I've come back to Gnome. The Gnome environment is simply put together better. KDE has a few nice features, but it's the small details in usability where it falls down hard.

  8. #18
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    KDE 4 is great. Now can we get rid of the lame brain dead "start" menu clone in it already?

    Also, what's with the status bar icon all being redrawn - SLOWLY - whenever I switch focus to another window? To me there are so much burden running KDE 4 desktop. Don't tell me that my machine is underspeced: Q9550 @ 3.8G, 4GB DDR2-900, 2900XT should not be too shabby to handle a desktop environment. That, along with the "start" menu clone, pissed me off several times when I try KDE 4. 4.0, 4.1, 4.2, no difference. So Now I am sticking with the good old GNOME for another several years before I even look back. Using KDE4 and GNome side by side and you instantly notice the speed (read: responsiveness) difference. not much to say
    Last edited by FunkyRider; 07-30-2009 at 09:25 PM.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by drag View Post
    Well I missed that OpenSuse forced the user to choose during installation.
    But SLED offering both in packages is meaningless to this discussion. All the major distros provide KDE packages. The default for SLED is Gnome.

    Again default!=standard. In fact most mainstream distro's allow choosing either upon installation.

    Distro watch's statistics are BS. I don't know how they compile them, but it's not accurate.
    They are rated on hits. The distro that gets the most hits gets a higher rank. Their results pretty much jive on par with what desktoplinux.com's survey brought out as well.


    It is. If your a ISV and you need to target your customers then Gnome and GTK will offer the largest install base. Redhat is the #1 OS required for customers to use in order to be compatible with commercial desktop applications for businesses. This provides a common install base so that ISVs do not have to deal with the extra expense and difficulty of tracking down variations in multiple Linux distros
    That's why it's the standard. It's not very complicated.
    Hate to break this for you but RH and SLED account for less then 3% combined of linux desktops installed and as far as commercial apps go more use TCL/TK then any GTK based solutions.

    What surveys? Were? In KDE forums?
    (links would be nice)
    http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...e-year-695620/

    http://files.opensuse.org/opensuse/e...penSUSE110.pdf

    http://www.google.com/trends?q=GNOME...ate=all&sort=0

    Even the one survey that does favor Gnome (although alot of speculation on it since there was a whole shitload of last minute 10000 entries citing Gnome and openSUSE) shows that Gnome does not have a majority.

    http://www.desktoplinux.com/cgi-bin/...=0813200712407
    http://www.ubuntista.com/2007/08/24/...-gnome-vs-kde/

    Even in a Ubuntu/Gnome fan site such as Phoronix shows KDE capturing more share.

    http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15809


    That is a pointless and irrelevent assertion to make. Next thing you know you'll be bringing up Ford and cars types into the disccusion.
    Actually that is more in line with your conclusions.

    It should and in a couple years it will. That's my prediction.
    Uhhuh and 2010 will be the year of the linux desktop

    There is a growing need for standardization for the desktop so it's definately going to happen. The way things are right now Gnome is much better positioned and has the support from vast majority of companies interested in forwarding commercial LoTD efforts.
    Please qualify that.

    (edit: Moblin is now a LSB standard. It's not a distro, so much, is a environment for ISVs and there is compliance testing and dependency requirements required to be 'Moblin Compatible'. Novell already has Moblin compatible Suse versions. Ubuntu has a Moblin compatible version. Fedora 12 is aiming for Moblin compatibility.... The technologies that Intel is pushing for the gnome environment are playing a heavy roll in what Gnome 3 will be. Gnome 3 is, also, going to be a much smoother transition then KDE 3 vs 4.. it'll be done in a step by step manner rather then one big break)
    LMAO, moblin is LSB compliant as are many other desktops it's not a standard. BIG HUGE DIFFERENCE.

    moblin!=gnome
    gtk!=gnome

    Or do we start counting the number of nokia devices that use QT4 and count that as KDE?

    ---------------------

    Remember:

    There is absolutely no harm for KDE, or any other desktop environment, if Gnome is required to be installed for compatibility reasons. It's just a few hundred megs on a disk. Even a low-end new computer can brush that off.

    ---------------------
    Same can be said for any other desktop in linux. It is after all one of the "unofficial standards" that free desktop set forth which if you look at has many kde derived technologies such as DBUS.

    KDE used to be in contention for the 'standard' environment, but they blew it when they gave up all compatibility with previous applications. it was not obvious at the time that the KDE 3 to 4 transition would cause so much havok, but time has proven that it did.
    To run KDE apps in Gnome you have to install KDE libs same goes vice versa so your point is? Just like to run KDE3 apps in KDE4 you have to have KDE3 libs installed as well.

    So application designers and distros had the choice of putting a lot of effort into supporting something that was obviously dead (KDE 3.5 is the end of the line for that desktop.) or making their users use something that was obviously not ready for prime time (KDE 4).
    When there is real progression to be made breakage will always happen. This happens in gnome too.

    It's taken approximetly 2 years for KDE 4.x to get to the point were it is currently at.

    That is about 3-4 entire major releases from popular distros like Fedora and Ubuntu. That's also a long time for Novell to tell Suse users to make the choice between programming for a dead-end environment or a environment that is not really usable for most people.
    That is why suse did not cut cold turkey from 3 to 4 and allowed the applications to catch up. It really wasn't that hard and KDE3 is still supported for another 5 years in their enterprise solutions that came with it

    KDE is a fine desktop. But they are still going to have to put a lot of work into catching up to were KDE 3.5 was 4 years ago, much less were Gnome is at today.
    Gnome has not made even close to the radical changes that KDE has over the same period. Just the plain fact that the KDE3/4 transition has been as smooth as it has is a pure testament of the competency of the KDE team. Compare deltas between the two projects over the years and you can see that the Gnome team changed about as much as the windows xp desktop over the years.

    --------------------------

    And good luck for KDE. They can still pull off creating a great product. It would be nice to have a nicer desktop then Gnome.
    [/quote]

    No luck needed, they just need to continue the pace at which they are moving.

  10. #20
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    deanjo thats a hell of a quote roll. I read like half of that and then got tired XD.

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