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Thread: What's Up With RadeonHD & Nouveau?

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  1. #1
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    Default What's Up With RadeonHD & Nouveau?

    Phoronix: What's Up With RadeonHD & Nouveau?

    Yesterday in the Phoronix Forums it was asked what's up with the Nouveau and RadeonHD drivers, which happens to be a very good question. The last time we had much to report on with regard to RadeonHD, the driver created by Novell for use with ATI R500+ GPUs, was back in July when it received better power management capabilities...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=NzU5NA

  2. #2
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    I don't think there's much to expect now from radeonhd, as the ati driver seems to have much more momentum and delivers on almost all accounts now. And since the road seems to have in the future everything either in the kernel DRM or in Gallium, there may not be any need for specific X drivers within two years.
    On the other hand, it's a bit troublesome that Nouveau seems to stall. :-(

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    I dont see a problem, radeonhd makes no sense or whatīs the different to radeon, or have somebody really have fun to make redundant work?

    The nouvou driver makes also not that much sense. Because nvidia looses itīs market share and it would be better do support that firms that work with the community instead of pushing freely nvidia with such a driver and "the better linux experince with nvidia hardware" the free software movement is now strong enough to ignore such a firm who dont like to work with us. The user gets that experince who nvidia wish to give if that feeling (closed source) driver is not right or users have problems with it (upgrading...) most people would see the guilty in this game.

    It takes even the presure from Nvidia to release their specs if somebody makes with unnecessary hard work by reverse engineering a good driver for their hardware.

    But if somebody have to much time, feel free to do it, but I donīt get the point its not importent for linux or its forthcoming to support nvidia. If nvidia will not support opensource, we should not support it by our self for free against nvidia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackiwid View Post
    the free software movement is now strong enough to ignore such a firm who dont like to work with us.
    Spontaneously, I don't think the movement is "strong enough" to ignore crucial hardware makers with a fast developing pace like nVidia, which they need to have for the market share.

    If you think otherwise I am interested to hear how you meant.

    .
    Last edited by sabriah; 10-10-2009 at 09:40 AM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackiwid View Post
    The nouvou [sic] driver makes also not that much sense. Because nvidia looses itīs market share and it would be better do support that firms that work with the community instead of pushing freely nvidia with such a driver and "the better linux experince with nvidia hardware" the free software movement is now strong enough to ignore such a firm who dont like to work with us. The user gets that experince who nvidia wish to give if that feeling (closed source) driver is not right or users have problems with it (upgrading...) most people would see the guilty in this game.

    It takes even the presure from Nvidia to release their specs if somebody makes with unnecessary hard work by reverse engineering a good driver for their hardware.
    That statement makes no sense. You do realize that we reverse engineered the R300 and had a somewhat working 3D driver for it long before AMD released docs, right? There was much less buzz around that project than there was/is about nouveau, but we delivered. And it didn't stop AMD from releasing docs.

  6. #6

    Default Not very true

    I can't speak to RadeonHD, but to add to what Dave Airlie and Drogoran posted, what you write about nouveau is fairly majorly untrue. Ben Skeggs (one of the lead nouveau developers, and a Red Hat employee) debunks your article here:

    http://skeggsb.livejournal.com/568.html

    I add to that some more evidence...

    http://tinyurl.com/yld7zso

    that's the list of bugs closed in nouveau in the last six months, and that's just Fedora reports - upstream reports and reports handled in other distros will add more.

    Also I'd add an observation: when drivers make architecture changes, the news and comment sites kill them for being 'unstable' or introducing regressions (see: intel)...apparently, when drivers don't make major architecture changes but instead concentrate on fixing bugs and adding badly-needed functionality like working suspend/resume support, the news and comment sites declare them dead. Heh.

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    Nvidia want to make their own thing (binary propriatary drivers) so letīs do them, and letīs see how long they survife this way. At the moment they lose their market-leading in grafics cards and if they think they can ignore the free/open software movement by not releasing the specs of their cards we will see how that will work out at the mid/long term.

    I have the sentence "the customer is the king" in my ears, i donīt think nvidia knows this, or they donīt agree with it. If itīs so and you want to use Linux, there are better solutions availible. If someone likes nvidias binary blobs, and donīt is really interessted in free software, and only use it because the kde theme looks better or he likes compiz or... itīs ok but for this personīs the nvidia drivers are good enough, so for them no free driver is needed. But to invest 100x the time normaly needed to make drivers just because nvidia dont want to open some specs, and reverse engineer it, I donīt get the point.

    Itīs a clearer state if you let it like it is. If you want features and you didnīt understand the advantages of opensource buy a nvidia card, if you did understand the points of free software go for amd or intel.
    Last edited by blackiwid; 10-09-2009 at 02:52 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackiwid View Post
    Nvidia want to make their own thing (binary propriatary drivers) so letīs do them, and letīs see how long they survife this way. At the moment they lose their market-leading in grafics cards and if they think they can ignore the free/open software movement by not releasing the specs of their cards we will see how that will work out at the mid/long term.

    I have the sentence "the customer is the king" in my ears, i donīt think nvidia knows this, or they donīt agree with it. If itīs so and you want to use Linux, there are better solutions availible. If someone likes nvidias binary blobs, and donīt is really interessted in free software, and only use it because the kde theme looks better or he likes compiz or... itīs ok but for this personīs the nvidia drivers are good enough, so for them no free driver is needed. But to invest 100x the time normaly needed to make drivers just because nvidia dont want to open some specs, and reverse engineer it, I donīt get the point.

    Itīs a clearer state if you let it like it is. If you want features and you didnīt understand the advantages of opensource buy a nvidia card, if you did understand the points of free software go for amd or intel.

    I have both nVidia and AIT cards, and run their proprietary drivers because of other apps than the KDE/Compiz candy. Yes, I also think that I understand the benefits of open source. But, to claim that nVidia is its losing market today because they don't provide specs to open source developers needed is ignoring what the market looks like, today. We may be there one day, but it is still some way to go.

    Let us pray Windows 7 will be like Vista.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sabriah View Post
    I have both nVidia and AIT cards, and run their proprietary drivers because of other apps than the KDE/Compiz candy. Yes, I also think that I understand the benefits of open source. But, to claim that nVidia is its losing market today because they don't provide specs to open source developers needed is ignoring what the market looks like, today. We may be there one day, but it is still some way to go.

    Let us pray Windows 7 will be like Vista.
    No, but because of this...

    NVIDIA Ceases All Chipset Development, Blames Intel
    Last edited by timofonic; 10-09-2009 at 07:03 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackiwid View Post
    Nvidia want to make their own thing (binary propriatary drivers) so letīs do them, and letīs see how long they survife this way. At the moment they lose their market-leading in grafics cards and if they think they can ignore the free/open software movement by not releasing the specs of their cards we will see how that will work out at the mid/long term.

    I have the sentence "the customer is the king" in my ears, i donīt think nvidia knows this, or they donīt agree with it. If itīs so and you want to use Linux, there are better solutions availible. If someone likes nvidias binary blobs, and donīt is really interessted in free software, and only use it because the kde theme looks better or he likes compiz or... itīs ok but for this personīs the nvidia drivers are good enough, so for them no free driver is needed. But to invest 100x the time normaly needed to make drivers just because nvidia dont want to open some specs, and reverse engineer it, I donīt get the point.

    Itīs a clearer state if you let it like it is. If you want features and you didnīt understand the advantages of opensource buy a nvidia card, if you did understand the points of free software go for amd or intel.
    NVIDIA proprietary drivers are actually the best Linux graphics drivers today. They have the best video acceleration (VDPAU), the best OpenGL implementation (version 3.2 with patented technologies, that open source drivers will never have and therefore will never be competitive in the gaming market), and last but not least, OpenCL and CUDA support (both have patented features). With all of that, I doubt that NVIDIA will ever care about open source drivers.

    Quote Originally Posted by sabriah View Post
    Let us pray Windows 7 will be like Vista.
    From my experience, Win7 is faster than both Vista and XP, and occupies less memory than Vista.
    Last edited by marek; 10-09-2009 at 07:11 PM.

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