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Thread: Mono 2.6 Released, Supports LLVM Generation

  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackStar View Post
    Mono, like Java, is completely open-source. Java is Sun-soon-to-be-Oracle-controlled; .Net is Microsoft-controlled; Mono is Novell-controlled. Personally, I fail to see a distinction: all three languages are controlled by evil corporations.
    Afaik nobody lobbies to make Gnome dependent on Java.

    @D2kx

    You gotta love the honesty of Phoronix' members Seriously though, this is absolutely neccessary at times.
    Yes, it's neccessary

    Regarding Mono, I am kind of in the same position as Apopas, but I tend to lean more to the "Mono sucks and I wish it would die" direction, because I see disadvantages and no advantages. I acknowledge however that it is free software.
    Yes, I also don't see a single advantage over others. Why use .NET etc? I'd choose QT if someone wants to have a modern and OS independent toolkit.

  2. #12
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    Microsoft won't sue anyone. I think M$ understood how to make their Windows continue to exist along with Linux. They tried this in the past, but they learned the lesson.
    I also think they understood there are areas where Linux is a must for its flexibility, so all their attempts to say crap on Linux is pointless. They understood that Linux exists, and no company will ever be able to destroy it, because GNU/Linux is evolution and for some one an ideology.
    I think and hope they finally understood that their only way to be credibile is to write good software and a good operating system. I think they did a good job with Windows 7. Windows 7 is not Linux, but it's their best Windows.
    For the moment I don't see what's the real goal of mono, however now we have silverlight for Linux. You don't want it? I do instead.
    I will probably never write down a piece of software in C#, but who are you to say someone else can't? Show me 10 reasons why someone shouldn't write in C# and I'll show you 20 reasons why there are issues with C++ or any other language.

    And be sure that M$ won't sue anyone because they will totally loose credibility and their "good?" status as a company would totally fall apart. When they gave Mozilla a cake for their Firefox release, it might sound funny but you must understand that it is a little step towards cooperation. IE8 still doesn't support all of the standards out there, but they are slowly working on it. Then if IE is still a piece of crap, don't use it.
    If someone writes down a wonderful software written with mono, why shouldn't you use it? Because Microsoft will sue you? Then don't cross the road because a car may run you over.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackStar View Post
    Other than that, Java sucks horribly when compared to C# (the language) and Mono (the base class library and the runtime). C# combines the best features of Java and Delphi, two of the best last-generation RAD languages, while largely side-stepping their pitfalls. It's by far the most accessible statically-typed RAD language (with Python being the closest dynamically-typed equivalent).
    Care to back that one up? There are a few things in favour of Java as a language and implementation compared to C#:

    - (Full) Support on more clients - BSD, Solaris, Linux, Mac
    Even with all the polish mono has been gaining, when working with modern features of .Net, you will still have problems(Especially with the whole Window Preserwtf crap). Those are facts.

    - Java version numbers vs. .Net version numbers
    Like with everything Microsoft did they fell into the hole of the ol' Service Pack. While it's certainly possible to develop and test for certain releases of .Net, it's impossible to test whether your stuff works with certain Service Packs/Patches, which do break things like API. Especially fun when coding for things like Windows mobile, where you have no physical access to the device.

    - Namespaces vs Packages
    Seriously, am I the only one creeped out by this?

    Also in terms of Web-support(which granted, shouldn't be a job for C# in the first place), frameworks out of std, and of course deployment/ developer tools Java easily takes the crown.

    Which leaves you with speed, C-like syntax, a good std-lib/framework...

    Gotta agree with you on the python-part, even though I just started learning that...

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by bulletxt View Post
    And be sure that M$ won't sue anyone because they will totally loose credibility and their "good?" status as a company would totally fall apart. When they gave Mozilla a cake for their Firefox release, it might sound funny but you must understand that it is a little step towards cooperation. IE8 still doesn't support all of the standards out there, but they are slowly working on it.
    Unfortunately, things like that can not rely on good manners an personal views. Nobody can say for sure that "be sure they won't sue you" despite if it seems logical for some, it seems paralogical for some others and that proves that it's a totally subjective matter. For valid justification we should rely on objective facts, like c# does this thing better than java, or mono programs use less RAM because of that or even better, MS signed this agreement etc...

  5. #15
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    Wink

    When it comes to Java versus C#, the only thing that comes to mind is this:
    "1996 - James Gosling invents Java. Java is a relatively verbose, garbage collected, class based, statically typed, single dispatch, object oriented language with single implementation inheritance and multiple interface inheritance. Sun loudly heralds Java's novelty.

    2001 - Anders Hejlsberg invents C#. C# is a relatively verbose, garbage collected, class based, statically typed, single dispatch, object oriented language with single implementation inheritance and multiple interface inheritance. Microsoft loudly heralds C#'s novelty."

  6. #16
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    I don't understand what's so exciting about c#.

    When I write an application in c/c++, the only thing which holds me back and waste a lot of time is external libraries. For example, I recently tried to use DBUS. My attempt was a complete and utter failure. Another example was PolicyKit, which I have spent many hours with (days really) and still haven't been able to figure out. Would it be easier for me to use those libraries if I where programming in c#. I really doubt it.

    So, why even bother with a complex runtime environment when it's external APIs which is the downfall of any software to be written.

    Add:
    I understand how GTK and Qt contributes to a better user experience.
    I understand why a scripting language like Phyton is needed.
    I understand why a language like java is useful on the internet.
    But what about Mono. Is it even needed. Is it useful for anything else than wasting every kind of resource (manpower, memory, cpu). Does it contribute to anything else than the coder having to write a few lines less when implementing the interface? Applications still need to be designed. Pictures still needs to be painted. Maths problems still needs to be solved. Is it good for anything else than writing big Microsoft programs which in reality runs much slower than older counterparts?
    Last edited by Silverthorn; 12-15-2009 at 08:02 PM.

  7. #17
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    Default

    Mono is new Wine. Desperately trying to catch closed-source moving target from Windows. Except that Wine never pretend to be a "multi-platform framework", let alone trying to infiltrate Gnome.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyatt View Post
    When it comes to Java versus C#, the only thing that comes to mind is this:
    "1996 - James Gosling invents Java. Java is a relatively verbose, garbage collected, class based, statically typed, single dispatch, object oriented language with single implementation inheritance and multiple interface inheritance. Sun loudly heralds Java's novelty.

    2001 - Anders Hejlsberg invents C#. C# is a relatively verbose, garbage collected, class based, statically typed, single dispatch, object oriented language with single implementation inheritance and multiple interface inheritance. Microsoft loudly heralds C#'s novelty."
    I can't tell if you are quoting someone or yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverthorn
    I don't understand what's so exciting about c#.
    Have you used a language that isn't C/C++, specifically C#? Either you don't know what problems are C# is trying to solve or you don't know what it is like to program in a language where those problems are solved.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by he_the_great View Post
    I can't tell if you are quoting someone or yourself.
    Oh, definitely someone else. This doesn't really make it any less comedic, in my opinion, though.

    EDIT: As for the other point, it had better be something profound; general purpose programming languages are general purpose.
    Last edited by Wyatt; 12-15-2009 at 08:58 PM. Reason: Addition.

  10. #20
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    Default

    Viva Qt !!!

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