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Thread: R600 Open-Source Driver WIth GLSL, OpenGL 2.0

  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackStar View Post
    One final nitpick: WOW minimaps use GL pbuffers, which are *not* windows specific. However, noone sane wants to deal with this ugly 6-year old POS extension, which is why OSS drivers won't get it anytime soon. This is why WOW/DX tends to run better than WOW/GL in wine.
    no there is a windows only extension.

    the OpenGL version of WOW also has no shadows!

    the DX version in wine is really better 'shadows' and 'minimap'


    Quote Originally Posted by BlackStar View Post
    "This Quadro card supports OpenGL 3.2, so if what you said was true, it should be faster through wine than native. It isn't, however."
    yes but wine is not finish in the OpenGL3.2 optimization part..

    i think we will see a lot of speed improvements in the future wine versions.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackStar View Post
    I don't doubt that wine can give a speed increase in some rare cases, but this speed increase either happens on software that doesn't really need it (WOW is 5 years old now? 3d mark 03 is 6 years old?) or on hardware that doesn't have a problem anyway (e.g. DX10/GL3.2 cards running DX8 software).
    Generally yes but there are some old games strongly speed limitation in cpu power.. for example 'Operation Flashpoint Resistance' on 5000m view and all features@high you need every cpu power you can get overclocket @4ghz is the minimum !
    wine can turn this around!

    yes you do not neet this for WOW or 3dmark03 -- but you need it for 'Operation Flashpoint Resistance'

  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaridarium View Post
    i know that.... but the openGL renderer of wow is obsolete...

    wine can handle the directX9 renderer of WOW nerly perfekt 100%..

    no one need this buggy pbuffer openGL-windows-only-extansion
    Maybe your logic should be reprogrammed. Since when are pbuffers are WINDOWS only?

    http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showp...&postcount=174

    Just the mesa drivers do not implement it would be the correct translation. Hopefully you get a brain update next year.

  3. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kano View Post
    Maybe your logic should be reprogrammed. Since when are pbuffers are WINDOWS only?

    http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showp...&postcount=174

    Just the mesa drivers do not implement it would be the correct translation. Hopefully you get a brain update next year.
    "Hopefully you get a brain update next year."

    Really thats impossible because all the Devs work on the Opensource radeon driver....

    but yes nvidia bankrupt in 2010 then i can pay a nvidia dev to fix my brain.

  4. #214
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    Very unlikely, especially when the next google toy will use tegra just like zune hd. The dx11 delay will not kill nvidia, more like is that they would aquire a x86 licence and produce own chips for netbook market.

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    This thread is starting to read a bit too much like timecube.com ...

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kano View Post
    Very unlikely, especially when the next google toy will use tegra just like zune hd. The dx11 delay will not kill nvidia, more like is that they would aquire a x86 licence and produce own chips for netbook market.
    nvidia do not need a X86 licence because they buy 'transmeta' this technic can handle X86 code without any licence from intel.

  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaridarium View Post
    nvidia do not need a X86 licence because they buy 'transmeta' this technic can handle X86 code without any licence from intel.
    If and only if they're using the actual Transmeta technology as originally conceived... which turned out to be crap and flopped horribly. But hey, that MUST be what they're doing, because they bought the company and there's no other possible assets Transmeta could have had, right? Companies exist to make one and only one intellectual property.

    You are still an idiot.

  8. #218
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    Sigh. I hesitate to continue this thread, but here I go anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qaridarium View Post
    thats a WOW only statement !
    because WOW really use a windows-only-openGL-extansion Really!
    you can't see the minimap if you play WOW in OpenGLmode in wine.
    but the _DirectX version rund perfect in wine!
    No, pbuffers have nothing to do with windows. They're only implemented by the proprietary drivers, but there is no reason the OSS ones couldn't do so as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qaridarium View Post
    in general native games in openGL are better ;-)
    Oh, OK. I guess I misunderstood your previous post. As others have mentioned, that's an easy thing to do with your posts.


    Quote Originally Posted by Qaridarium View Post
    The king himself Lord Bridgman gave me a tiny chance that is the truth.

    the tiny point is there is a real chance that in CAD software gamer-cards run faster in directX than on openGL.

    thats because in the openGL world they have more control they cut out more extensions and then this features need to emulate by the cpu thats slowdown the OpenGl CAD software on a gamer card.

    on the directX side M$ can bypass this and integrate optimizations in the dx-core

    but yes i can not proof this in practice!
    Come on, do you have any evidence at all to back up this assertion? The speedup the FirePro drivers give is due to focusing driver optimizations on certain types of workloads, not on missing extensions or anything. Unless you can provide some kind of evidence for this, I say you're full of bull**** here.


    Quote Originally Posted by Qaridarium View Post
    blackstar ignors my argument wine is a shader compiler and also can optimase the orginal code on newer hardware.

    you can play a DX8 game (yes DX8 is shader based HLSL) and wine can compile it into a OpenGL4 stylish code. there is no need to do this all the time wine also can save the result in theorie.

    and my argument was simple a recompiled OpenGL stylish code on newest hardware is faster than a DX8 nativ code on the same hardware!
    Ah, so what you're saying is that rewriting the original code on the fly to take advantage of new features can result in speedups on newer hardware. Sure, I'll agree with that in principle. The problem is that it's only going to happen on older software that can't take advantage of new hardware - and those applications are going to run smokin fast on the newer hardware anyway, so there's not much point to speeding them up. Current applications which run at slower speeds on current hardware tend to already be using more of the hardware's capabilities and will not see any speedup at all. In fact, they'll be slower because of the additional translations that have to go on up front.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qaridarium View Post
    o yes Nintendo's Wii is very old no no no no highendgrafic everywere!

    o yes Playstation 3 is old to no no no no no no highend-graphic nowere!
    Well, they're a lot newer than some of the examples you gave, like 3DMark2000.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qaridarium View Post
    OpenGL2.1 grafic! nothing more.

    phones do only have openGL2 to....

    the web browser standarts only have openGL2 to!

    Highend-graphic OpenGL is dieing! over 4 years of DirectX10 there is no openGL3 game!
    Right, but that's something you could have said 5 years ago and it would have been just as true. High end OpenGL has been dying for a long time, so I'm not sure why you think it's going to go away soon. Hasn't it been dead for the last 4 years, since like you said there is no OpenGL3 game yet? Or else it's not dead at all, since the lower end use is exploding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qaridarium View Post
    in the end the windows users use rivatuner to turn a radeon into a fireGL...

    in the end everyone how buys a FirePRO/FireGL are a idiot!
    Well, now here's something we might agree on. At least in the past, there has been no actual difference in the hardware between the gamer and professional cards, it's all a matter of driver optimizations. So you are spending an awful lot of money here for some software you could get via a hack.

    On the other hand, I'm not sure I'd really want to bet my job on a hack like that, and I'm sure a lot of other people would agree. I don't think there are many users getting those expensive cards using their personal money.
    Last edited by smitty3268; 12-31-2009 at 03:43 AM.

  9. #219
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    Originally Posted by Qaridarium
    OpenGL2.1 grafic! nothing more.

    phones do only have openGL2 to....

    the web browser standarts only have openGL2 to!

    Highend-graphic OpenGL is dieing! over 4 years of DirectX10 there is no openGL3 game!
    If you write this* then you have no idea what web is, how it expands to new technology and how it is one of the main arteries of global capitalism. And you have no idea why every company in computer industry wants to have a big slice of it under control. Windows 7, games 4 windowz or high-end directX hw tessellation are a little slice compared to web and its trends. MS has a very nasty handicap here: They have always wanted to make people and companies dependent on their platform and the internet forbids this*. The web says: Its not logical to make a web page platform dependent.

    And why phones have opengl 2? Simply because they are phones. They are power efficient consumer devices that dont need to have high-end graphics (at least for now). Not everybody is interested in cutting-edge graphics like you and me. And why WebGL uses opengl 2? The same reason: Theres no need for the unnecessary overhead. Perhaps in the future when today's high-end graphics become consumable, web applications will be upgraded too.

    Having the most advanced graphics API doesn't make MS the ultimate computer industry killer. MS will be a big fat looser if it can't get web3D and web-phones under its control and is terribly failing in both areas.
    Last edited by barbarbaron; 12-31-2009 at 06:17 AM.

  10. #220
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    actually WebGL is a binding for OpenGL ES2, which is much closer to OpenGL3 than OpenGL2

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