R600 Open-Source Driver WIth GLSL, OpenGL 2.0

[BlackStar]

I'm not sure why you think zlib performance has anything to do with 3d performance...

As for wine graphics performance, games like Diablo 2, Counterstrike, World of Goo, Plants vs Zombies are almost unplayable on my Atom/945 netbook and noticeably slower on my Core2/Quadro laptop compared to running them on Windows directly. Maybe your system is powerful enough that you don't notice the slowdown or even get a speed increase through wine but that's far from universal.

Finally, it's obvious that brigdman is employed by AMD to ban dissenters from Phoronix (and other forums). Tread carefully, AMD is evil like that.

[smitty3268]

I think Q might have some kind of mental disorder here. He just keeps repeating the same things over and over again like if he says it enough it might become true, while ignoring everything that everyone else says.

I think he might be the first person I've ever seen say that DirectX through WINE is better and less hacky than native OpenGL support.

And he still hasn't explained how he thinks OpenGL's impending demise is going to destroy the market for workstation cards, after it was explained that those are marketed to DirectX users as well.

And then he keeps bringing up 10 year old applications to test performance while ignoring that blackstar was talking about HLSL and other newer technologies being slow.

As far as OpenGL dying itself, it's been dying in certain markets like PC gaming for years. It's never going to disappear completely though, as long as Sony and Nintendo don't feel like paying massive amounts of money to their main competitor in the console market. And new markets like phones and web browsers seem likely to make OpenGL more used than ever before, even if they are in lower end devices.

[bridgman]

Hold on, let me check my job description...

<snip>

23. Where possible, encourage the suspension of, or take other actions to discourage enthusiastic forum members from posting

24. Fill out timesheets on a regular basis

Yep, guess I do get paid for it.

Seriously, I am trying to discourage you from overgeneralizing and drifting off-topic. Your posts could be regarded a lot more seriously if you would just slow down a bit. Be sensitive to that inner voice which occasionally says "you're babbling" and listen to it

The issue under discussion was whether current implementations of Wine + driver would exact a performance penalty as a result of Wine inserting additional shader instructions. The fact that one program rums faster does not disprove that, and the other benchmarks you posted (which prob24ably don't use shaders) also argue that another factor must be affecting performance, possibly filesystem or cacheing.

[elanthis]

I think Q might have some kind of mental disorder here.

That is incredibly insulting and insensitive. Please don't say things like that.

Qaridarium is just an everyday idiot, nothing more.

[L33F3R]

i have said it before and i will say it again. people are stupid. all of them.

[not.sure]

I think Q should have paid attention in elementary school when they explained the concept of "sentences".
(assuming that in his native language there is such a thing).

[Qaridarium]

I think Q might have some kind of mental disorder here. He just keeps repeating the same things over and over again like if he says it enough it might become true, while ignoring everything that everyone else says.

I think he might be the first person I've ever seen say that DirectX through WINE is better and less hacky than native OpenGL support.

thats a WOW only statement !
because WOW really use a windows-only-openGL-extansion Really!
you can't see the minimap if you play WOW in OpenGLmode in wine.
but the _DirectX version rund perfect in wine!

in general native games in openGL are better ;-)

And he still hasn't explained how he thinks OpenGL's impending demise is going to destroy the market for workstation cards, after it was explained that those are marketed to DirectX users as well.

The king himself Lord Bridgman gave me a tiny chance that is the truth.

the tiny point is there is a real chance that in CAD software gamer-cards run faster in directX than on openGL.

thats because in the openGL world they have more control they cut out more extensions and then this features need to emulate by the cpu thats slowdown the OpenGl CAD software on a gamer card.

on the directX side M$ can bypass this and integrate optimizations in the dx-core

but yes i can not proof this in practice!

And then he keeps bringing up 10 year old applications to test performance while ignoring that blackstar was talking about HLSL and other newer technologies being slow.

blackstar ignors my argument wine is a shader compiler and also can optimase the orginal code on newer hardware.

you can play a DX8 game (yes DX8 is shader based HLSL) and wine can compile it into a OpenGL4 stylish code. there is no need to do this all the time wine also can save the result in theorie.

and my argument was simple a recompiled OpenGL stylish code on newest hardware is faster than a DX8 nativ code on the same hardware!

As far as OpenGL dying itself, it's been dying in certain markets like PC gaming for years. It's never going to disappear completely though, as long as Sony and Nintendo don't feel like paying massive amounts of money to their main competitor in the console market. And new markets like phones and web browsers seem likely to make OpenGL more used than ever before, even if they are in lower end devices.

o yes Nintendo's Wii is very old no no no no highendgrafic everywere!

o yes Playstation 3 is old to no no no no no no highend-graphic nowere!

OpenGL2.1 grafic! nothing more.

phones do only have openGL2 to....

the web browser standarts only have openGL2 to!

Highend-graphic OpenGL is dieing! over 4 years of DirectX10 there is no openGL3 game!

[Qaridarium]

driver would exact a performance penalty as a result of Wine inserting additional shader instructions. The fact that one program rums faster does not disprove that,

o yes wine inserting a lot of additional shader instructions o yes very bad..

thats the theoretical argument why it should be slower.

But! WOW-directX9-based-shader-game run faster on a lot of hardware (less than 1GB ram) than nativ in windows vista or windows7!

thats the praxis!

additional-shader-instructions VS vista1,4gb/windows7-1GB waste of ram

and the other benchmarks you posted (which prob24ably don't use shaders) also argue that another factor must be affecting performance, possibly filesystem or cacheing.

yes this programs do not use shaders but! a game do not only use shaders.

for exampel "surprime comander" RTS game use also a lot of 'CPU' power and this slowdown the FPS but wine Wins all CPU benchmarks...
wine can win a game benchmark on the CPU used side!
a game is not a 'shader' program a Game is much more!
a cpu limited program can run faster on wine than nativ!
a ram limited program can run faster on wine than nativ!
many old games also do not run on modern windows systems wine also wins on compatibility.

wine WIN!

Hold on, let me check my job description...
<snip>
23. Where possible, encourage the suspension of, or take other actions to discourage enthusiastic forum members from posting
24. Fill out timesheets on a regular basis
Yep, guess I do get paid for it.
Seriously, I am trying to discourage you from overgeneralizing and drifting off-topic. Your posts could be regarded a lot more seriously if you would just slow down a bit. Be sensitive to that inner voice which occasionally says "you're babbling" and listen to it

I'm babbling and i'm listen to that I'm babbling bababba bababb aabba paaplaplaaa
because babbling is important ! I Sould get paid for it by AMD!

[Mickabouille]

This must be a bot.

Would this thread qualify as a failed Turing test ?

Note : I'm not a native english speaker either, but I try to make sure to have at least partially sound sentence structures. And in fact, it must be even harder for me to parse those sentences than for those that speak english fluently.

BTW, what is "praxis" ?

[Qaridarium]

I'm not sure why you think zlib performance has anything to do with 3d performance...

thats because there are cpu limitation games like RTS games with many troops KI calculate by the cpu.

wine can win in this games on the 3D-Performance!

As for wine graphics performance, games like Diablo 2, Counterstrike, World of Goo, Plants vs Zombies are almost unplayable on my Atom/945 netbook

I'm so sorry abaut this.. in the future it will be faster intel only need OpenGL3.2.
Intel is generally is very slow in 3D a 20€ hd4350 is 200-300% faster than your atom GPU...

Maybe your system is powerful enough that you don't notice the slowdown or even get a speed increase through wine but that's far from universal.

thats true i can play Oblivion in wine and I can't notice the difference in speed. wine or the driver only have some graphic bugs.

Finally, it's obvious that brigdman is employed by AMD to ban dissenters from Phoronix (and other forums). Tread carefully, AMD is evil like that.

in the past AMD get foaming rabies by some Posts of me in this forum.