VIA's Linux TODO List... Maybe Look Forward To 2011?

[RobbieAB]

Note that "the best" doesn't necessarily translate to "the most expensive". I've seen netbooks that cost 300 euro's outperform netbooks that cost 450 euro's. Yes the latter ones are a ripoff but people who only want "good enough" might buy (and have bought and will guy) the more expensive one purely because they couldn't or didn't want to do their homework on the matter.

I never said the best was the most expensive, just that sometimes the difference between the "idealistic" choice and the "optimal" choice is in areas that are irrelevant. Calling those who choose the "idealist" choice foolish when they gain no benefit from the supposedly better choice is not really that helpful, especially when you consider the vast range of other factors (e.g. Case, speakers, battery...)

That said, I don't know how much a VIA netbook costs, mostly because the shops here in the Netherlands don't sell them. Care to indulge me in my asking for the price?

I think I paid ~€350 for my one a year ago, not the cheapest at the time, but it had a lovely case and what was at the time regarded as one of the best netbook keyboards. Also, the brushed metal case it really cute.

If I was buying now, I suspect I would still choose it because I like the speakers, keyboard, and case. The actual computer is pretty irrelevant for most purposes.

[slumbergod]

I don't think I've ever seen a single via graphics device.
Whether they do or do not have open source drivers, does it actually affect anyone AT ALL?

Yes, it does. My partner bought an HP netbook with XP on it. Wireless on it was so bad I set up a partition with Ubuntu. And sadly, that meant relying on reverse engineered openChrome drivers for the VIA graphics subsystem. And they suck. It's ok for internet and simple things but forget watching multimedia video.

In any case, it is too late. I will NEVER EVER buy or recommend a product containing VIA technology. It is safer to stick with Intel.

[Adarion]

Well. VIA is a sh*t.
Really. I own a few devices with VIA chips, let aside the NICs and audio chips. Just the CPU and GPU (miniITX boards, ECS G320 Laptop).
How long shall I still wait? Man, until 2011 (okay Gentoo will offer the recent kernels earlier than other distribution but anyway) I have to wait until I get that stuff finally going? No way. I wonder if the hardware will still be working at this point.
I really like the idea of the C7 eden (low power uptake) and padlock crypto accel chips and all that stuff. But what is all that good for if the drivers are crap?
I don't expect to play DooM3 or something on these boxes but at least something that works basically and doesn't crash with every thing that goes above VESA modesetting capabilities.

I will not buy any VIA stuff again. It just sucks. And as far as I heard before (miniITX messageboards and such) it also sucks in Windows.
Yes, I have basic modesetting here and MPEG2 / some 2d acceleration but e.g. EXA will not work. Only XAA. Forget OpenGL, OpenVG, OpenCL (lol, with these chips), and KMS or other fancy stuff. I couldn't even get a graphical console running along with having X.
Until VIA shows some real engagement in Linux I will not buy their stuff anymore.
And stick to something that works.
Intel has a few things in the same energy uptake area to offer by now (but make sure not to get a poulsbo crap) and AMD is also going in the right direction (they just lack something like an atom CPU, the Geode doesn't count). If you want x86.

I still hope that I will someday see the hardware working that I paid for.


And: Since when is Harald Welte not with VIA anymore? His blog didn't say so and I also found not info that would say they parted. AFAIK he was working on something OLPC related.

[BruceChang]

Thank you all of your comment and education.
These 2 years, we were educated to be "release early", "release often". And moreover, we are educated to open the source at the developing stage. So sharing the source code at the very beginning stage is the main purpose for hosting project in public domain.
I agree the schedule is slow. We are still trying to speed it up.

Thank you very much again for all your information and education.

[yoshiki2]

Bruce.. what is the actual situation? Can I expect my lenovos12 to run 3d games? when will that be possible?
Also, when can I expect to buy a 12 inches netbook with via nano 3000 and vn1000?
thanks

[Svartalf]

Open Source means more than just writing a driver. You have to update your driver for new kernel / x releases and so it's much work. Without a few developers this is not possible.

You can have that one of two ways... The way you allude to or have it such that people that own the device can take up the challenge. Either, though, requires access to useful technical data to drive the 3D portions of the chipsets.

Via, you have to hire a few developers or you can give up in the linux marked share. Your closed driver don't work either here. Nobody can take you serious any more and that's bad.

I do believe that AMD doesn't dedicate their Linux developers to the FOSS drivers (as that would take them away from fglrx...). I think Intel's the only one devoting full efforts on FOSS support from their own staff and funds. All I would ask of VIA/S3 is to quit being so schizoid on this stuff and either make drivers like NVidia, do the AMD play, or the Intel one- it doesn't matter which, just pick one. Honestly, I think they'd benefit the most from the AMD or the Intel move, myself. Only one requires what you demand- and you're actually asking much more than most of the players are actually giving.

If you are serious then hire luc and a few more devs and let them write in their blogs about what they are working on. Develop your drivers in the public, with a git repository on fd.org. It's clear that releasing documentation is an expensive business and that you don't want to spend much money on this. If it's relly impossible to release specs then only "your" developers can work on your drivers. But that's the only way sucessfull driver development on linux works.

If they were honestly serious, they'd do more than they have. They still haven't gotten a single clue, even though they purportedly hired one with Harald Welte. They've given out a smattering of what is needed (and more than they had in the past with the UniChrome and Chrome9 chipsets)- but nowhere near enough to do 3D realistically and not covering any of their modern chipsets. People WILL develop stuff for the credible and the available GPUs in the lineup if you provide data- whether or not you supply people to help do the work. The problem is that they're hung up on protecting their IP (which is silly, considering that Intel and AMD seem to be more than happy to hand out info on their stuff they actually own...) and they're unwilling to divulge anything useful or commit people to make either open OR closed drivers people will use.

[Svartalf]

To buy something else purely because you don't want to support the monopoly is idealistic but foolish.
Buy something else because it is superior technically if you will, otherwise you'll be throwing your money away in my opinion.

Then...whyfore do you use Linux? If you can answer that one to my satisfaction without circular arguments, I might buy the line you just threw down there. Otherwise, you might want to re-evaluate your remarks...

There's tons of reasons- idealism is a good one in many cases because you have what you have in the Linux world today because of such 'foolish' things, from people like myself that bought and used Linux because it was a diamond in the rough and it wasn't a Windows play.

[BruceChang]

Bruce.. what is the actual situation? Can I expect my lenovos12 to run 3d games? when will that be possible?
Also, when can I expect to buy a 12 inches netbook with via nano 3000 and vn1000?
thanks

Hello Yoshiki San:
Honest speaking, the status of VIA in Linux is
1. UniChrome: 2D/3D/DRM source code has been released in public since last year.
2. Chrome: 2D/DRM source code has been released in public too. Unfortunately, the open source 3D driver still unavailable. Only 3D driver only in bin format. This is in the our TODO list.

Regarding S12 to run 3D game, it depends on which 3D game you like to play. I'll suggest to play the light game. Which distro are you using on S12?

Regards

[Adarion]

Thank you all of your comment and education.

"Education"? Hmm. Okay, if you want to say it like that. It would be great if VIA would just DO something instead of nothing, and release the complete (!) necessary specifications for writing a driver or at least a working driver under a GPL or LGPL license.
To the day the very old CLE266 is not even completely working. No EXA no 3d no MPEG4 (if the HW is even capable of doing so).
Teaming up with openchrome hackers is a good idea since this is at the moment the only halfway working driver.

But thanks Bruce for finally having some official people from VIA talking with the users and developer community.