What does Ubuntu have that Debian hasn't, except better marketing?

[sabriah]

What does Ubuntu have that Debian hasn't, except better marketing?

As a Debian user I feel surprised to read that Ubuntu is for beginners and Debian for scarred veterans. Yet I have yet to see any comparison which tells me what makes any recent Ubuntu/Kubuntu shine over Debian stable/testing/Sid. And, on the same track, what makes Mint shine over Ubuntu?

The marketing side is obvious, but, in the software it self? Where and what are the hardcore differences between these three distros?

It would be very nice to read an in-depth analysis of the number of similarities and, if possible, highlighting any differences and their significance on usability and performance.

Michael? Are you up to the task? Debian > Ubuntu > Mint

EDIT: Moonraaf's remark below (http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showp...11&postcount=3) is an example of poor marketing from Debian's side. Moonraaf is correct, very few are willing to use Debian stable as a home user. It wasn't until I first heard of of Debian's development model I realized there was a larger world. Each Debian package go from (in theory) experimental (a few days) to unstable "Sid" (a few weeks) to testing (a few months) to stable (a few years); mileages vary wildly. However, as the Ubuntu boys have discovered, even the "unstable" is stable enough to be used for daily work. I have on average much less than one one bug a month.

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[Kano]

Pure Debian stable is mainly for servers. I optimize it with latest kernel (based on Ubuntu kernels) and hand selected backports to give a good combination of stability and user experience. If you have no other hobbies you can certainly track Debian unstable, for 1 user this might be even interesting, but when you support and fix those issues over serveral years you may think that you could do better things with your time. Just try my distro if you like too.

http://kanotix.com/

[monraaf]

What does Ubuntu have that Debian hasn't, except better marketing?

Ubuntu rolls out a release every 6 months. I'm not that familiar with Debian, but if I look at the distrowatch page, I see Debian's latest stable release is Lenny. Firefox 3.0.6 and xorg-server 1.4.2... Is this a joke or what?

I'm neither interested in running a stable distro with packages that are way behind, nor am I interested in running 'testing' or 'unstable' versions of a distro or running a rolling distro. So for me Ubuntu kind of fits my needs.

[Kano]

The Firefox ENGINE is xulrunner, which is often updated. You certainly get all needed security updates. I don't conside xserver 1.4.2 as a joke, you can still install fglrx 9-3 with Lenny, however you should not use a newer kernel than 2.6.28 for this. With binary drivers it does not matter at all which xserver is used, only for intel onboard series 4 it is certainly a drawback. I allow the install of .28, .31 and .32 kernels in the latest ubuntu git flavours (.32-9 was rebased to .32.2).

[monraaf]

Kano, those were just some examples. There are many more packages which are simply outdated. Let's look at another one. Here on Ubuntu I have Transmission version 1.75. Now let's look at Lenny, Transmission 1.22... Tssk, that version doesn't even have DHT.

By all means if Debian suits your needs, use it. For me it doesn't.

[kraftman]

The Firefox ENGINE is xulrunner, which is often updated. You certainly get all needed security updates. I don't conside xserver 1.4.2 as a joke, you can still install fglrx 9-3 with Lenny, however you should not use a newer kernel than 2.6.28 for this.

It's a joke for people who use Open Source drivers and who want to use Ext4.

[Kano]

Debian stable != testing/unstable. Some packages can be backported with ease, some need lots of dependencies. The ones i find usefull i backport - lots of generic tools work in any version, that does not matter at all if there are updates for those available or not. For my favorite media player i have got even 3 scripts to compile if needed a full current snapshot or use vaapi or multithreaded options.

http://kanotix.com/index.php?module=...MplayerScripts

Certainly I tested these scripts with U too. They work unmodified until you use the psb extra repositories, in that case you have to disable the sed which enables the 965 driver for the vaapi variant and add a symlink.

sudo ln -fs /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/dri/psb_drv_video.so /usr/lib/va/drivers

You can be sure that i always provide scripts for LATEST nvidia + fglrx drivers. So all major parts which are responsible for hardware support are current. The rest is nothing for version junkies, but for those who seek a stable working environment - especially for kde 3.5 fans (kde 4.3 is only optional), for Gnome use Ubuntu.

[sabriah]

Debian stable != testing/unstable. [...] You can be sure that i always provide scripts for LATEST nvidia + fglrx drivers.

Well, being a Kano always guarantees the latest and greatest! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mlm4X3NMv_s

Seriously, since a year or so in Debian (e.g. unstable) one automatically upgrade only those packages which won't break dependencies. So, in my three year experience with Debian, the last year has been even easier than when I first arrived to Debian (from Gentoo) and thought dpkg/apt/apt-get were a dream.

This is why I asked in the first place, as I find Debian very very nice and readily suitable for any complete newbie capable of upgrading and installing programs in Redmond products. But, yes, I agree: stable != testing/unstable.

Debian is the only distro I have tried in the Debian family. Previously I have used RedHat, Mandrake, and Gentoo, with some short-lived flirts with Peanut, Vector, Suse, and DSL in between. Maybe, had I tried Ubuntu, Mint or Kanotix before it might have been different.

However, I am still prone to home-made errors, so I could probably go wrong with any distro at times...

[Kano]

@kraftman

The U based 2.6.28 kernel has lots of ext4 backports. I see absolutely no problem to use ext4 with it. The installer was enabled for ext4 since this kernel and nobody mentioned ext4 issues. You think really too negative.

If you really think you need to test latest OSS drivers as you want to be a free alpha tester for ati and others free free to use another distro. Kanotix is definitely NOT a distro for your use case. I backport of course lastest oss ati, nv and openchrome drivers too, but not mesa.

[monraaf]

If you really think you need to test latest OSS drivers as you want to be a free alpha tester for ati

Actually fglrx users are the free alpha testers for ati, didn't Bridgman tell you ?

Kanotix is definitely NOT a distro for your use case.

And here I thought this topic was about Debian