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Thread: UVD/hw acceleration If, when?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaridarium View Post
    i tell you the time-point they release the specs of the UVD unit....
    if someone crack/reverse-engineering the windows HDCP/Copy-protection.
    and that on all hardwares,,, intel,nvidia,amd..
    after that there is no need for hold the stuff back in the dark,,,
    Nah, I don't think that's true. Seeing the rise in popularity of HTPC setups and the fact that nVidia (with their VDPAU-enabled binary blobs) is the only reasonable solution for such use, I think AMD will really try to release the specs.
    The thing is simple: if AMD can provide a cheaper, more powerful graphics card with HW-acceleration of VC-1/h.264 with open source driversm which would work out of the box.. they'd have a real killer in the geek-driven HTPC market. And keep in mind, that it's the geeks who are asked for advice by normal consumers on what to buy.

    Bridgman, one more question I'd like to ask: what about OpenCL on the open source drivers? Do you have that feature in your release plan? I know that probably that would be done through Gallium. How do you think a Gallium implementation of OpenCL (on for example R7xx or even R8xx) would perform, say compared to the FGLRX drivers?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaridarium View Post
    i tell you the time-point they release the specs of the UVD unit....
    if someone crack/reverse-engineering the windows HDCP/Copy-protection.
    and that on all hardwares,,, intel,nvidia,amd..
    after that there is no need for hold the stuff back in the dark,,,
    Bah, they still use CSS for DVDs even though it's broken in every way possible. AnyDVD HD has in practice broken the bluray copy protection but it doesn't matter one bit, no matter what happens AMD won't be released from their commitments.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bridgman View Post
    Nope, the licensing issue is for open source, not for fglrx. The question is whether the combination of our hardware, specs we release, and an open source driver would be covered by our license.

    This is in addition to the DRM concerns we knew about at the start; just something that came up when I was starting to rough out a plan.

    I can't really speculate on what the available options would be if we couldn't open up UVD, since the available options would depend on which specific problem or problems blocked us. Linux doesn't have the same kind of protected runtime environment as Windows, so releasing a closed source module would basically be the same as jumping up and down yelling "this bit, this bit, reverse-engineer this bit"
    Just make sure you don't wait for too long, before somebody loses patience and reverse-engineers it anyway.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kjella View Post
    Bah, they still use CSS for DVDs even though it's broken in every way possible. AnyDVD HD has in practice broken the bluray copy protection but it doesn't matter one bit, no matter what happens AMD won't be released from their commitments.
    nah anydvd only copy the key out from a programm ...

    but the blueray standart can blacklist ALL i remember ALL softwares and ALL hardware players...

    so you need to buy new hardware players and software.

    after that anydvd needs to crack the blueray again and again and again.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neuro View Post
    Nah, I don't think that's true. Seeing the rise in popularity of HTPC setups and the fact that nVidia (with their VDPAU-enabled binary blobs) is the only reasonable solution for such use, I think AMD will really try to release the specs.
    The thing is simple: if AMD can provide a cheaper, more powerful graphics card with HW-acceleration of VC-1/h.264 with open source driversm which would work out of the box.. they'd have a real killer in the geek-driven HTPC market. And keep in mind, that it's the geeks who are asked for advice by normal consumers on what to buy.

    Bridgman, one more question I'd like to ask: what about OpenCL on the open source drivers? Do you have that feature in your release plan? I know that probably that would be done through Gallium. How do you think a Gallium implementation of OpenCL (on for example R7xx or even R8xx) would perform, say compared to the FGLRX drivers?
    "And keep in mind, that it's the geeks who are asked for advice by normal consumers on what to buy."

    real Geeks support opensource and asked to the stubit people around they sould buy amd cards!

    and yes KANO isn't a geek he is a Nerd!,,,

    Nerd= do not support Social activities only the working solution for himself is the only argument standpoint..

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by barkas View Post
    Just make sure you don't wait for too long, before somebody loses patience and reverse-engineers it anyway.
    this cracker/hacker will be hired by amd because it will be the first Mann ever understand how to get in worked on Linux......

    the only REEEAAAAALLL true is amd lost all the information abaut UVD on an random fortune...

    thats the reason for amd its so hard to fix bugs abaut the viedeo acceleration.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaridarium View Post
    but the blueray standart can blacklist ALL i remember ALL softwares and ALL hardware players...

    so you need to buy new hardware players and software.
    Sure if you kill BluRay you kill AnyDVD HD. In the real world, that doesn't make any sense.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kjella View Post
    Bah, they still use CSS for DVDs even though it's broken in every way possible. AnyDVD HD has in practice broken the bluray copy protection but it doesn't matter one bit, no matter what happens AMD won't be released from their commitments.
    The only reason this nonsense holds up is because of that DMCA nonsense.

    But the fact is that they could use a really stupid kind of encryption, like a binary inversion, and it would STILL be illegal to decrypt under the DMCA.

    The way I view encryption/security is like this;

    IF YOU TAKE security precautions, i.e. ENCRYPTION, then YOU assume all responsibility for the security of that data.

    If you DO NOT take security precautions, then AND ONLY then should law/copyright apply.

    In other words, it is an ABOMINATION of everything that makes sense that the LAW should have any say in whether or not you are allowed to hack stuff that is designed to be secure. People should REALLY take responsibility for their own data.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaridarium View Post
    nah anydvd only copy the key out from a programm ...

    but the blueray standart can blacklist ALL i remember ALL softwares and ALL hardware players...

    so you need to buy new hardware players and software.

    after that anydvd needs to crack the blueray again and again and again.
    This really needs to be answered...

    So they can blacklist the hardware players, big deal. Has anyone actually considered the PR fallout of doing so? Just imagine the headlines. It would mostly kill the format.

    And this is where any such scheme falls apart. The ability to blacklist sounds great in theory, but would be a disaster for all involved if ever actually used, so is basically irrelevant - it's MAD for all parties, no matter what the law courts actually decide.

    Note: This overlooks the almost comical potential for nasties... In the PC market, I can now legally turn every video card into a doorstop by publically reporting a leak of protected content, and demanding MS carry out the driver revocation... In the immortal words of Monty Python: "It's depressing, and it's senseless, and that's why..."

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaridarium View Post
    "And keep in mind, that it's the geeks who are asked for advice by normal consumers on what to buy."

    real Geeks support opensource and asked to the stubit people around they sould buy amd cards!

    and yes KANO isn't a geek he is a Nerd!,,,

    Nerd= do not support Social activities only the working solution for himself is the only argument standpoint..
    I'm sorry, but we were having a completely sane discussion here, without any personal attacks, until you came along. I mean: where are the moderators?

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbieAB View Post
    This really needs to be answered...

    So they can blacklist the hardware players, big deal. Has anyone actually considered the PR fallout of doing so? Just imagine the headlines. It would mostly kill the format.

    And this is where any such scheme falls apart. The ability to blacklist sounds great in theory, but would be a disaster for all involved if ever actually used, so is basically irrelevant - it's MAD for all parties, no matter what the law courts actually decide.

    Note: This overlooks the almost comical potential for nasties... In the PC market, I can now legally turn every video card into a doorstop by publically reporting a leak of protected content, and demanding MS carry out the driver revocation... In the immortal words of Monty Python: "It's depressing, and it's senseless, and that's why..."
    I guess that this is where calculations come in. Is it better to risk the outcry of the users or risk huge fines?
    It does rise a particular question, to which I don't know the answer since I'm not a lawyer in the US corporate-law-funnyland: Let's say a consumer bought a Bluray player/HDCP card and bought it sole purpose of playing Blueray disks. After that keys in his device get revoked, because someone recovered them and published. This would render his device, for which he paid quite a lot of money, incapable of playing new Blueray disks. In other words: revoking the keys would break his property... Wouldn't he be eligible to sue someone? Wouldn't this spawn massive class-action suits?

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