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Thread: Apple Rolls Out WebKit2, But No Linux Love Yet

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanjo View Post
    And how many homebrew apps are running on a Xbox? Same limitations buddy if not more restrictive.
    But at least they were up front about it. The difference is that Apple waited until after Adobe spent millions to get their product running on the iPhone, and only then took away the rug right at the last moment. The issue is the capriciousness and the lack of hard rules. The fact that you might be selling something on the iPhone right now, only to suddenly have it taken away because some app reviewer changes their mind. With MS, you always know where you stand.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by smitty3268 View Post
    But at least they were up front about it. The difference is that Apple waited until after Adobe spent millions to get their product running on the iPhone, and only then took away the rug right at the last moment. The issue is the capriciousness and the lack of hard rules. The fact that you might be selling something on the iPhone right now, only to suddenly have it taken away because some app reviewer changes their mind. With MS, you always know where you stand.
    With reguards to adobe, they knew the score well before hand and adobe tried to sneak around and find a loophole.

  3. #33
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    I might also add that when you grab the SDK for the iPhone you agree to the terms laid out in the EULA which stipulates that Apple has final say and the developer agrees to those terms so they are very up front about that.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanjo View Post
    With reguards to adobe, they knew the score well before hand and adobe tried to sneak around and find a loophole.
    Adobe is only one example. There have been hundreds, if not thousands of apps developed for the iPhone that were declared persona non-grata. Apps that apple has arbitrarily decided "duplicate functionality" even though users would disagree. Unity3D games that apple initially approved and is only now taking away. The list goes on. The issue is that if you develop an iphone app right now, you basically have to just hope and pray that your investment doesn't go up in smoke. Then hope that even after initial approval, Apple doesn't later take it away. That's not friendly at all.

    I find it very difficult to feel any sympathy towards Adobe, they're a real bastard of a company in my book. But Apple has actually managed to do it for me.

    Anyway, i'm getting tired of this conversation. So i'll end it, in apparently the only way that will make you happy.

    You're absolutely correct, deanjo, Apple is a perfect company in every way and I have no idea what I was thinking when i dared to make a small criticism of it. I apologize, and will never bring this matter up again. /sarcasm

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by smitty3268 View Post
    You're absolutely correct, deanjo, Apple is a perfect company in every way and I have no idea what I was thinking when i dared to make a small criticism of it. I apologize, and will never bring this matter up again. /sarcasm
    Never said Apple was perfect, far from it but trying to paint a company one company as Judas without looking around and looking at the surroundings and what is going on elsewhere is a view seen through horse blinders.

  6. #36
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    Pfff Apple. Maybe the only thing I like in the computer culture of my country is the fact that Linux is considered a bigger player than Apple. Hmmm Apple is not considered a player at all...

  7. #37
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    Apple... hmzzzz...

    A company that designs hardware that the rest of the industry follows. In other words they do not care if something costs more money (it's for the elites anyway) as long as it makes it a more usable product.

    Phone companies where still like: It can play MP3's now! And Apple came with touchscreens. Fine... I bought a Samsung phone with a touchscreen and I wouldn't be able to go back (web browsing).

    I like the fact that Apple raises the bar for consumer products so that companies feel like that they have to make better products so they can still compete.

    What else? They are pushing Unix to the masses. I like that too, because they also use open standards. No problem with that.

    Their products focus heavily in minimalistic design, which is what a lot of avarage computer users realy like/need.

    Apple is probably the only company that makes user-friendly computers.

    Will I ever buy it? No chance in hell:
    -Too expensive
    -Too restricted
    -Less functionality
    -Security hell (Apple uses a lot of FLOSS projects code and Mac OS X isn't updated daily on average, which means hackers only need to see what holes are patched in the corresponding FLOSS and exploit it on Mac users, so this is hell when more people start using Apple products)

    And Linux pwns the shit out of Apple IMHO.

    My $0,04

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanjo View Post
    I would also like to point out that patents do not stifle innovation. They stifle duplication.
    Really? Well for instance touchscreens, including experiments with multitouch have been around for almost as long as the mouse. Any gestures you can make on a (multi-)touch screen as well. Yet Apple has patented multitouch and gestures like pinching, which is completely trivial.

    So they are in effect stifling innovation. And in fact they do this by duplicating things that already existed long before. Even if the Apple engineers re-invented some of those things independently, they should never have gotten a patent for it.

    Patent only ever were somewhat useful when used by single inventors or small shops long ago. Back when the automobile and the telegraph were invented. Nowadays the stream of new ideas is so much larger, there are so much more engineers, and there is so much big money behind it that patent do not help innovation, but they hinder it.

    They should be abolished altogether, if only to get rid of patent trolls (company who only buy patents for litigation but make no products themselves).

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanjo View Post
    So I guess openCL, Grand central, cups, LLVM don't exist then in your limited vision.
    I never said they are not an open source citizen of some sort. They do contribute some things to the common good. But not much compared to what they take, and negligible compared to what is given to them. Also cups is a bad example. They just bought the CUPS company, and of course it is still GPL. But as a sysadmin I can tell you that not much is improved about CUPS since it changed hands to Apple. I wish someone would fork it to accelerate the development of CUPS. It is sorely needed. Mac clients are not even completely compatible with a Linux CUPS server. They do not support CUPS classes for instance.

    But ok, OpenCL is a good contribution, I don't know much about grand central (it is some kind of queuing scheduler for many small threads) or LLVM (some kind of compiler useful for GPU's).

    Apple is not the only 'bad apple' among software or hardware companies, or other big companies in the world. It is all cut-throat competition. I know that. I just don't like what Apple does and they are getting way too powerful.

    The open source community still does not fully understand the danger coming from Apple, still happily port all Linux's best software to OS X. That undermines the market for free operating systems.

    On the other hand, Linux needs to get graphics (X, video, 3D), audio, and api infrastructure in order yesterday. There are far too many problems with it.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by perpetualrabbit View Post
    Really? Well for instance touchscreens, including experiments with multitouch have been around for almost as long as the mouse. Any gestures you can make on a (multi-)touch screen as well. Yet Apple has patented multitouch and gestures like pinching, which is completely trivial.

    So they are in effect stifling innovation. And in fact they do this by duplicating things that already existed long before. Even if the Apple engineers re-invented some of those things independently, they should never have gotten a patent for it.

    Patent only ever were somewhat useful when used by single inventors or small shops long ago. Back when the automobile and the telegraph were invented. Nowadays the stream of new ideas is so much larger, there are so much more engineers, and there is so much big money behind it that patent do not help innovation, but they hinder it.

    They should be abolished altogether, if only to get rid of patent trolls (company who only buy patents for litigation but make no products themselves).
    Every example you give is duplication. None of it is innovation. I'm not defending patents at all but saying they stifle innovation is an oxymoron. Copying features and functions is not innovating, it's duplicating.

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