View Poll Results: Would you switch to AMD, if AMD implements full opensource OpenGL3.2+ stack?

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  • Yes, I will.

    65 82.28%
  • No, I stay Nvidia and enjoy binary blobs.

    9 11.39%
  • I dont know.

    5 6.33%
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Thread: Nvidia deside to abadon opensource, I deside to abadon Nvidia.

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazycheese View Post
    Yeah, ok, Im very wrong.
    You have a point in what you claimed before. What is the current vision for platform-independent coding, btw? SDL? (which in term can tap OpenGL, OpenAL(?), network stuff etc)
    We do need a simple framework we can market to gaming companies that they can target against, after all.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shining Arcanine View Post
    This seems like a waste to me. Your old hardware was fine and you have no idea what would be available when you actually needed new hardware. By that time, AMD could have abandoned open source with Nvidia embracing it.
    Worlds lie between "is" and "would". I need 4 core or similar cpu. Im using linux, so thanks to opensource my software runs 100% optimized for the hardware(video convertion).

    Socket 775 is out of production, but I could go with quadcored Q8300/6600. But then, I would need to sell mb, ram and cpu at the times, where it is outdated already. Because in next 4 years no cpu will be produced for s775. No socket 775 mb will be produced and DDR2 production as already stopped to my information. So doing it now, when I can still sell it, is good idea.

    135x is very pricey and is aging too(intel desided to replace it, google, dont remember the link).
    115x is one way to go, with i3-530 in my budget. But its 2x2HTcores, not 4 real ones, the one that comes close(i5) costs 70 extra. Intel also has opensource stack, but perfomance is only enough for video and 2D.

    Now look at AMD/ATI. With AM3 processors I can either choose AM2+ board and keep DDR2, or AM3 board and upgrade RAM as well. I choose to upgrade for the reasons above.

    The processors,.. I already had one Athlon II X2 240 at my parents build(I picked E5300 instead) and it run cooler,.. I had to buy Scythe Big Shuriken extra, because E5300 went over 55@acceptable noise levels with stock cooling. SBS put it back to 40.

    I could have chosen Phenom II x4, but its too, a bit too much for my cfg. Besides its power consumption is well at level of i7. I didnt want to play with cores, unlocking PhII x2 etc, so the best thing for me was AII X4 630(620 was 5 cheaper so what the heck). 4 cores, less cache which means less heat and power consumption. But AMD seems to have done one thing wrong - the default Vcore is 1.4, which is WAY too much. I undervolted the rig to 1.15, tested under 20 hours prime95 and it runs solid. Power consumption dropped from 200 to 160 (with HD4770 in idle ) so, my "old" E5300 had 120. Its pretty decent for twice the perfomance.

    The motherboard which I had, Asrock P43ME(I need an uATX board to fit the case) is the only one which had ICH10(low power consumption) and was under 80. For similar price I have bought AM3 all-solid-cap board from gigabyte, with much more extras(but unimportant).

    Then I thought AMD cpu, AMD board. AMD does good things for opensource, I watch phoronix repeatedly reporting gallium improve to very usable state with 3D accel. Then blam Nvidia drops opensource. I also have read nvidia uses windows driver on linux, hence nvidia raw linux perfomance always falls behind windows. Throw in AMD card as well. Fsck Nvidia.

    They may "would", but I must "have". One great blob went from kernel, unrestricted kernel version selection, easy gcc and glibc selection, peace of mind supporting foss-aware company. Hope that answers your question.

  3. #23
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    One word about CPU.
    Athlon II X4 630 @ 1.15 volts, 4x2.8Ghz, with automatically controlled stock fan@1000rpm, performing gentoo "emerge -euDN world" - recompilation of everything(790 packages) with new CFLAGS(for new K10 hardware), 775 minutes of compilation with -j5(5 threads).

    34C
    System temp 38C
    Outdoor - 24C

    This CPU is awesome. No l3 cache does not only mean less perfomance in case of if-cache-hit, but also means less price, less heat and less power consumption. I think dualchannel 2x2Gb DDR3-1600 can compensate this.

    Undervolting is a must though. My had 1.4v stock, some other guys reported to have 1.2v stock. Dunno why.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanonyme View Post
    You have a point in what you claimed before. What is the current vision for platform-independent coding, btw? SDL? (which in term can tap OpenGL, OpenAL(?), network stuff etc)
    We do need a simple framework we can market to gaming companies that they can target against, after all.
    Im not a professional programmer, but I think creating crossplatform stuff is fairly easy. ifdef win32, elseif linux.. ID software projects are compiled for windows and linux and run native. Many games, incl. those that use id-tech 2&3 engines are written in crossplatform style.

    But SDL makes this process even easier, it provides a lot of interfaces and links against them. You dont need to search for the library, load it in memory etc. SDL does it for you. You, or distribution maintainer compile sdl with support for anything you want, for example
    Code:
    ~ $ eix libsdl
    [I] media-libs/libsdl
         Available versions:  1.2.13-r1 ~1.2.14 ~1.2.14-r1 ~1.2.14-r2 {X aalib alsa +audio custom-cflags dga directfb esd fbcon ggi +joystick libcaca nas opengl oss ps3 pulseaudio static-libs svga tslib +video xinerama xv}
    Then, a game programmer(or any programmer that wishes to write crossplatform code quick), links his game agains libsdl. Game->libsdl.
    Sdl manages the end point connections on OS, regardless of what it is. 3D, image, sound, networking - all inclusive. Simple layer, quick binds, code runs natively and is crossplatform. I dont know about big/little endian systems though,like I mentioned, Im not a professional programmer; but I do heard game-devs praise it . The only thing which you need is to learn use it, which should be easy as Ive heard. Code::blocks IDE supports SDL project btw..

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazycheese View Post
    One word about CPU.
    Athlon II X4 630 @ 1.15 volts, 4x2.8Ghz, with automatically controlled stock fan@1000rpm, performing gentoo "emerge -euDN world" - recompilation of everything(790 packages) with new CFLAGS(for new K10 hardware), 775 minutes of compilation with -j5(5 threads).
    Thanks for the honesty. Some Gentoo Fundamentalist once told me compiling everything from source only takes 5 minutes. Somehow I had a feeling he was not telling the truth Also I think this should make it clear why Michael is not very keen on benchmarking Gentoo.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazycheese View Post
    Im not a professional programmer, but I think creating crossplatform stuff is fairly easy. ifdef win32, elseif linux.. ID software projects are compiled for windows and linux and run native. Many games, incl. those that use id-tech 2&3 engines are written in crossplatform style.
    Yeah, but it's more than that. Graphics done in a portable way is pretty trivial, that's OpenGL nowadays here but it stops immediately after that. What should be used for sound? OpenAL? PulseAudio? ALSA? What should be used for input? After all, Microsoft's DirectX is a lot more than just a graphics framework and offers tons more starting from network functionality and input devices to game developers. SDL is afaik one solution that's also pretty wide but I'm not sure if it's taken wind well.

  7. #27
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    Okay, my last message was unintendedly confrontational. I just meant to stress there's tons more than graphics to what Linux needs to look good to programmers.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazycheese View Post
    Try to understand me, I hold you for wrong in many points.

    Wine is great way to launch windows applications that have no ports or no equivalents on linux.
    It is also great way to show that linux is capable and faster that windows.
    But this is where it ends.
    Microsoft releases a game(actually not microsoft, but Bungie - the developer) only for microsoft(nothing new) with only-microsoft renderer(directx).

    1) Now you buy this game(you support microsoft and tell bungie it is sufficient to release only microsoft code).
    1a) You do not send email to the company(bungie) asking to release linux version.
    1b) Releasing or supporting linux stack is unnecessary, there is wine. Wine becomes official "interface" to linux. Wine implements microsoft technology.
    2) You also buy windows, but you dont install it. You need to have one copy of windows to accept license for fonts, .NET and many more things. You buy and dont use, or you buy and use - where is difference?
    3) You pay microsoft for windows to use wine, you pay microsoft for directx, you pay bungie for windows game and dont tell bungie you need linux version. In best case bungie asks you to use wine next time. Wine is NOT MAJOR part of linux, but thanks to you no games will work in linux without WINE.
    4) You cannot use lastest AdobeCS4 and Microsoft Office only because of this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_(software) "Microsoft and Wine"
    and because of DRM. Proprietary software installs numerous copyprotection systems that root deeply into the system and require them to run. Linux is the opposite of DRM. It is developed differently. Thats why using windows software on linux is very bad for linux.

    You get and support windows games, windows(for license), put windows on linux, put wine on linux, play with bugs. You support closed source for linux.

    I sell nvidia card so AMD implements linux stack. Only because of opensource I switch cards. I support open source for linux. I do not want wine or anything windows run on linux.

    Everyone is free to choose.
    exactly. I don't know anything to add to this.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by monraaf View Post
    Thanks for the honesty. Some Gentoo Fundamentalist once told me compiling everything from source only takes 5 minutes. Somehow I had a feeling he was not telling the truth Also I think this should make it clear why Michael is not very keen on benchmarking Gentoo.
    well, 790 packages in 775 minutes means less a minute/package....

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by energyman View Post
    well, 790 packages in 775 minutes means less a minute/package....
    Yeah. It also means you can

    1. have dinner
    2. watch a movie
    3. go to sleep
    4. have breakfast
    5. walk the dog
    6. go to the gym
    7. have a shower


    and the damned thing is still compiling

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