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Thread: X Input 2 Support Goes Into GTK+ 3.0

  1. #11
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    Qt is not mentioned because there is currently not much to mention about it and Gnome is on its way to a massive version bumb with massive changes which has only happened once with Gnome with 1.x to 2.x.

    On the other hand Phoronix doesn't spend a lot of time reporting on Qt and KDE out of massive disinterest, which is dissapointing as the vocal people count even, if not more, towards KDE.

    Then again I think that the point of news is being informed on what you don't know, rather than what's happening around you, so I think some more attention towards the development of XFCE and others would be justified.

    We all have our my DE Vs. your DE religious 'discussions' for fun, but I am realy interested in the new Gnome, even though I'll probably keep using KDE SC.

  2. #12
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    Probably because qt is boring. The major distros all default to gnome. Most software is GTK. Despite some people being real fans of it, and technical differences aside, qt really doesn't matter.
    I'll agree and disagree.

    The major distros definitely use Gnome more than KDE.

    Ubuntu - Gnome
    Debian - Gnome
    Fedora - Gnome
    RedHat - Gnome
    Mandriva - KDE
    OpenSuSE - KDE
    Novell SLES - Gnome
    Slackware - KDE


    I think that's pretty much it.

    The most interesting thing Qt has going for it right now, in my opinion, is MeeGo and Symbian. They both are using a Qt base, along with the now released PR1.2 of Maemo 5.

    So the real question here is... when is Xi2 going to be implemented in Qt. Especially with phone devices using multi-touch?

    leech

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by leech View Post
    I'll agree and disagree.

    The major distros definitely use Gnome more than KDE.

    Ubuntu - Gnome
    Debian - Gnome
    Fedora - Gnome
    RedHat - Gnome
    Mandriva - KDE
    OpenSuSE - KDE
    Novell SLES - Gnome
    Slackware - KDE


    I think that's pretty much it.
    You consider slackware to be major? That's more of a micro-niche from my perspective... but either way, yep. And particularly when you consider that the top four on your list probably account for 90%+ of all linux installs.

    The most interesting thing Qt has going for it right now, in my opinion, is MeeGo and Symbian. They both are using a Qt base, along with the now released PR1.2 of Maemo 5.
    I think that's mostly because nokia owns qt. But to be honest with you, symbian is totally uninteresting, and meego is only interesting in so far as it might motivate intel to update the SGX535 xorg drivers. The nokia aspect of it is enough to make you barf.

  4. #14
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    and then you remember: Ximian assholes at Novell tried to kill KDE. Redhat has a strong 'not invented here' syndrome. And debian is betraying their own rules with the continued use of gnome. In fact, the FSF is betraying their own goals, if they use/recommend gnome.

  5. #15
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    Mandriva is pretty much dead ATM. Financial problems (read /.).

    Kubuntu, while flawed, isn't massive? Strange...

    BTW Fedora has KDE iso's, so Gnome isn't default at all... I don't know where you got that from? Maybe because computer-iliterate users see the fedora screens by default as Gnome is way more simple to understand...

  6. #16
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    IMHO, this is completely fine. Michael is more interested in GNOME, it's probably what he uses, so he follows the news with more interest. Just like he's more interested in ATi news, so we get far more stories about that than other graphics drivers. I don't think that Phoronix claims to be the most impartial news source on the web, so that's OK, though more balanced news would be a welcome change from my pov.

    Although I have been a KDE user since 1.1 days, and consider it the only serious desktop on Unix systems today, with no real competitors, I can accept that GTK is the most important single toolkit in the Linux ecosystem, both historically and in current usage. It has evolved into a very good toolkit which is very popular for applications developers. IMHO, Qt has technical advantages, and this is what I use personally for my software, but GTK is very important anyway, and preferred by many people, a large group being C programmers who dislike C++.

    The whole issue of KDE vs. GNOME is a historical political battle. KDE team made a questionable (and potentially dangerous) decision in the early days, which gave the FSF and Debian a heart attack, and the kneejerk reaction remained long after the issue was resolved and KDE became more free than the alternatives. The battle has been fueled by inertia, not technical or legal issues, ever since then.

    In terms of actual quality, It was never even close.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by V!NCENT View Post
    Mandriva is pretty much dead ATM. Financial problems (read /.).

    Kubuntu, while flawed, isn't massive? Strange...

    BTW Fedora has KDE iso's, so Gnome isn't default at all... I don't know where you got that from? Maybe because computer-iliterate users see the fedora screens by default as Gnome is way more simple to understand...
    Mandriva, while having financial problems, was included because it's not 'based' on any other Distribution, which is why I also listed Slackware.

    This is also the reason I did not include Kubuntu in my list. While it may have a lot of users, it is an offshoot of Ubuntu, hence not one of the major players. I didn't count this in as "I have more users than you do!"

    Fedora's default is Gnome, all of the Redhat technologies are put up as Gnome technologies first, and I don't think there are any of the main developers working on KDE that work for Redhat.

    Though I do appreciate Fedora because unlike Ubuntu / Kubuntu, they stick with closer to upstream when it comes to the layout of both KDE and Gnome (much like Debian does as well)

    No one pointed out that OpenSuSE also has Gnome install disks. But that's because it's not considered default as well.

    leech

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    Quote Originally Posted by energyman View Post
    and then you remember: Ximian assholes at Novell tried to kill KDE. Redhat has a strong 'not invented here' syndrome. And debian is betraying their own rules with the continued use of gnome. In fact, the FSF is betraying their own goals, if they use/recommend gnome.
    Now I recall Ximian being assholes, but I don't recall them specifically trying to kill KDE except for making Gnome the default of the Enterprise desktop / server version.

    Redhat, as much as I dislike RPM itself, has done a great service to Linux, both in devoting programmers to the kernel development and creating things like network-manager, and overall creating most of the technologies that make Linux more desktop worthy, even though they said for a long time that it'd never happen....

    I'm confused about Debian betraying their own goals with gnome... I think you're smoking some crack there. KDE/Qt used to have the problem of not being GPL/LGPL, but that has been more or less remedied. The only thing I can think you'd be referring to is Mono support, and the Gnome package in Debian Squeeze depends on either Tomboy (depending on mono) or gnote, which doesn't depend on mono. Not sure which is installed by default at this point.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
    IMHO, this is completely fine. Michael is more interested in GNOME, it's probably what he uses, so he follows the news with more interest. Just like he's more interested in ATi news, so we get far more stories about that than other graphics drivers. I don't think that Phoronix claims to be the most impartial news source on the web, so that's OK, though more balanced news would be a welcome change from my pov.

    Although I have been a KDE user since 1.1 days, and consider it the only serious desktop on Unix systems today, with no real competitors, I can accept that GTK is the most important single toolkit in the Linux ecosystem, both historically and in current usage. It has evolved into a very good toolkit which is very popular for applications developers. IMHO, Qt has technical advantages, and this is what I use personally for my software, but GTK is very important anyway, and preferred by many people, a large group being C programmers who dislike C++.

    The whole issue of KDE vs. GNOME is a historical political battle. KDE team made a questionable (and potentially dangerous) decision in the early days, which gave the FSF and Debian a heart attack, and the kneejerk reaction remained long after the issue was resolved and KDE became more free than the alternatives. The battle has been fueled by inertia, not technical or legal issues, ever since then.

    In terms of actual quality, It was never even close.
    I know about the whole political backdrop of the KDE vs. Gnome. The main reason I prefer Gnome over KDE is because with every single version that I have used (I have tested everything from just before 1.0 to 4.3 (or 4.4, can't recall right now if I tried the newest yet..) and it always irritates me in one form or another. Mostly it reminds me far too much of the way Windows works, and I hate that. I first started using Linux because I saw screenshots of Enlightenment DR13. It completely floored me.

    Now the question is, after bringing that up, and to move back more on topic. Is Xinput 2 going to be added to the EFL? That would be SO sweet!

    leech

  10. #20
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    KDE/Qt used to have the problem of not being GPL/LGPL, but that has been more or less remedied.
    What do you mean by "less"?

    KDE has always been LGPL (though parts use other licenses like GPL or BSD).

    Qt is QPL and GPL and LGPL. And additionally bound by a contract which states that should Trolltech (or whoever succeeds them) ever stop releasing a FLOSS version, the last released version becomes BSD licensed.

    How can you possibly get more resolved than that?

    His point was that GNOME was founded with the specific and stated goal of killing KDE because Qt was not free (Ximian only followed the project spirit). Once Qt was GPL'ed, they switched their goal to killing KDE because it is TOO free. The argument became that you should not release GPL libraries, because then you can't link them against closed-source software.

    And this goes against the whole philosophy of the FSF and Debian, who have always maintained that software freedom is the main issue, and LGPL was a lesser license. At the point when KDE was more free (per FSF definition), Debian included it into the repositories (stopping the boycott), but kept it as a second class citizen.

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